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| Thread: So. You guys still think Trump is no problem? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Rimgrabber 
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posted April 17, 2025 05:44 PM |
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Pam Bondi isn't his lawyer, she's the Attorney General of the United States who is in charge of prosecuting him, appointed by Donald Trump, and she has admitted multiple times that they are not charging him with anything. The Supreme Court, a third of which was appointed by Trump in his first term, have unanimously ordered Trump to get him back and he is openly defying them. Try to get the bare minimum basic facts correct before smugly talking down, please.
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blizzard
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posted April 17, 2025 06:27 PM |
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Edited by blizzard at 18:29, 17 Apr 2025.
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I can see Sean Hannity as a propagandist (not that I've really watched anything from him in years). Not Ben Shapiro, since he will fairly regularly criticize GOP politicians. Shapiro also stands out more in the last year or two because of his unwavering support for Israel when a lot of Republicans are trying to approach that a little more softly so they don't alienate new voters.
My advice to the confused young people of Germany and W. Europe getting slammed with fearful information on a regular basis is to avoid doing what America did in the 1950s. There was a senator in the 50s who became famous named John McCarthy, and his big fixation was that he turned the word "communist" into an extremely broad umbrella term that could be applied in any sort of situation that might vaguely be seen as communist. So again, the culture around him is that you were suppose to prove that you are not a communist, which of course is impossible to do. As far as Russia: I recommend turning the dial down a couple notches, because it still isn't too late for the increases in defense spending to NOT become a long term reality.
And today, instead of "you're a communist" the new phrase is "you're a fascist." And just like McCarthy, the word doesn't really mean much of anything because it is used so broadly.
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Rimgrabber
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posted April 17, 2025 06:30 PM |
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Criticzing GOP politicians doesn't mean he isn't a propagandist. In fact it is a really important part of it because it gives the illusion of objectivity.
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blizzard
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posted April 17, 2025 06:44 PM |
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He is mostly a Reaganite, except he wants to tariff China really hard and push them out of the market, and tariffs weren't Reagan's thing (probably because Reagan personally lived through the Great Depression and tariffs were blamed for worsening it)
Why do you say he is a propagandist? What's your definition of a propagandist?
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Salamandre
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posted April 17, 2025 06:53 PM |
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Rimgrabber said:
she has admitted multiple times that they are not charging him with anything. Try to get the bare minimum basic facts correct before smugly talking down, please.
Let's say, a smuggler sneaks in your house. You ask Pam Bondi to get him out, she answers he is not charged with anything, as he didn't do any crime while in your house. You keep him? Then give me your address, I know a lot of folks who need easy shelter.
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Rimgrabber
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posted April 17, 2025 07:02 PM |
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If a smuggler snuck into my house Pam Bondi would tell me he's guilty of trespassing and smuggling. He is here legally and has committed no crimes and the justice department has publicly admitted it. Are you being dense on purpose?
blizzard said:
He is mostly a Reaganite, except he wants to tariff China really hard and push them out of the market, and tariffs weren't Reagan's thing (probably because Reagan personally lived through the Great Depression and tariffs were blamed for worsening it)
Why do you say he is a propagandist? What's your definition of a propagandist?
His entire job is to push a neocon agenda. That is what he gets paid to do. He doesn't get paid to have objective discussions.
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blizzard
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posted April 17, 2025 07:02 PM |
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Edited by blizzard at 19:08, 17 Apr 2025.
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@Rim:
The problem is, the entity that would normally prosecute for criminal contempt of a court order would be the justice department, and Trump's administration oversees the justice department. You can of course always bring in another attorney and they can oversee the prosecution, but if Trump wanted to (I don't know if it would ever get to this point) he could issue a pardon if there was a conviction for criminal contempt of a court order.
So, how I really see this, is that the executive branch isn't being properly checked when presidents have the power to hand out pardons, including for politically motivated reasons, and that is a constitutional issue that would be very hard to ever resolve. It's hard to call Trump a fascist if he uses constitutional powers, albeit in a very noxious way. A lot of the stuff about Trump is that the rule of law in the USA just isn't all that great compared to more modern constitutions. American presidents are powerful AF, and we are seeing that in action right now.
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Rimgrabber
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posted April 17, 2025 07:08 PM |
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Yes, fascists have famously never abused existing laws to expand their power. That has never happened. But on top of that he is also publicly refusing to comply with court orders telling him that what he is doing is exlicitly illegal. If you don't want to take it seriously, fine. I give up.
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blizzard
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posted April 17, 2025 07:10 PM |
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Edited by blizzard at 19:14, 17 Apr 2025.
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It's a constitutional issue. Issuing a pardon for contempt of a court order is not an expansion of powers, just like Joe Biden pardoning his son was not an expansion of powers. It has always been there. American presidents are allowed to do that kind of crap. It's legal.
We need a White House that isn't so kingly, but it's hard/impossible to fix that because you would need to amend it through Article 5. Good luck doing that.
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Rimgrabber
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posted April 17, 2025 07:12 PM |
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Who said anything about pardons? He deported an legal resident to a foreign prison and is refusing to bring him back despite being ordered to by the Supreme Court. Are you saying he can pardon himself, or are we talking about completely different things?
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blizzard
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posted April 17, 2025 07:16 PM |
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That's what I'm saying. If the court order was repeatedly ignored, he could pardon anybody involved that ignored the order. I guess theoretically that could include himself.
So, at that point, we get into impeachment territory. But yeah, he could do it.
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Rimgrabber
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posted April 17, 2025 07:23 PM |
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No, he can't pardon himself. He says he can, but he's wrong, because the government is set up so that the president is not above the law. If he tries, that is in fact a giant abuse of and expansion of power, which is a tactic that fascists have historically used. I guess we'll find out because a federal court has named him as a defendent in contempt of court for this.
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blizzard
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posted April 17, 2025 07:31 PM |
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Edited by blizzard at 19:41, 17 Apr 2025.
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Rimgrabber said:
No, he can't pardon himself. He says he can, but he's wrong, because the government is set up so that the president is not above the law.
Correction: the government is supposed to be set up that way.
If I understand correctly, you are seeing this primarily as a "Trump" problem, and I am seeing it primarily as a "constitution" problem.
The thing that would keep Trump in check would be to impeach him if the court orders are ignored and he is convicted. It's better than nothing at all, I agree, but that is a pretty messy thing to resort to. It means a new head of state and a new person at the helm of all of the negotiations going on after the chaos from the tariffs. It's just bad for the country in general. There should be steady, smooth transitions of power. Impeachment is never a good thing even if it is sometimes necessary.
edit: We should really just give our presidents a scepter and be done with it. As a nation, we are in the closet when it comes to what a sitting US president is capable of.
This what I read about the thing going on with Garcia, and this is why I bring up the presidential pardon powers:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/president-defies-judges-orders-contempt-rcna201455
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Rimgrabber
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posted April 17, 2025 07:43 PM |
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Ah, I see. No, I do not see it primarily as a Trump problem. As I have said multiple times in this thread, the erosion of the constitution and the normalization of the slide into fascism has been a systemic bipartisan issue for decades. Trump is just an acceleration of the trends because he is personally a fascist ideologically, unlike past presidents.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 17, 2025 08:01 PM |
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Jesus, Blizz, get a grip. You know, there ARE neo-nazis in Germany. A LOT. They threaten people, they don't like, they beat them up, they even KILL people. We have over 300 killings since 1990 (until 2022) with a radical right background, another 100 suspected and an estimated high number of not identified as such. We have 25.660 registered crimes by the radical right in 2023.
The AfD is the party in Germany that is an umbreall for them - but it's not the omly extreme right-wing party in Germany.
The extreme right wing in Germany is as much a fact as the KKK in the US - so get ypour facts right and start thinking why your government seemed inclined to suport those arseholes.
And Rimgrabber seems to have a WAY better grasp on what goes on in the US than you.
Desaster is looming, mind you. With China stopping rare earth exports, US armament industry is screwed, which in turn means - no F-47, for example, while China just presented their J-35. Trump is losing out, and the only thing that can save him are the rare earths supposed in Ukraine (and Russia).
ANY peace that will give the US a grip on that stuff will be acceptable for Trump.
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blizzard
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posted April 17, 2025 09:34 PM |
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Edited by blizzard at 21:56, 17 Apr 2025.
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300 Neo-Nazi-related killings since 1990. Sounds like you're doing very well. Visit Baltimore or Philadelphia sometime. The US has more self-identified Neo-Nazis than anywhere else on Earth. Almost none of them have good cholesterol or are capable of balancing their checkbooks. Arithmetic is very hard, you see, and broccoli is very scary.
I double-down on what I said. Fascism is not a major threat to the world. Neither is the KKK. Yes, they exist. Yes, it's extremely toxic. I've seen one or two of Fred's posts before they were deleted. It is not a political force of any real substance when most of them have broken lives and broken relationships, addiction issues, mental health issues, health issues, a history of being abused as children, financial problems, etc.
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Salamandre
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posted April 17, 2025 10:06 PM |
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We have about 800 Islam-related murders in France since 1990, in US a few thousands. About 1500 little white girls rape cases in UK by Islamic Paki gangs, 250 000 deaths from 70 000 Islam related terrorist attacks worldwide since 1979, yet the danger worldwide is the Nazi threat because 300 deaths in Germany.
Definitely, 4 years of Trump Derangement Syndrome will be long for some.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 17, 2025 10:08 PM |
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I just read that extremeists killed at least 17 people in the US in 2023. SEVENTEEN. Wow. With a total of 19252 murders in the US. 17. Of 19252. In Germany we have about 250 murders PER YEAR. in 30 years, thats 7500. Maybe 8000. 300 of which, possibly 400, with an unknown number maybe not achknowledges as such.
You know percentages, right? Not sure how long they will teach math in the US, but you should have been taught the basics at least.
So maybe in the US they have no problem with nazis and fascists and the KKK and racism and internet hate and violence in general.
Or maybe it's just you.
In Germany we have one. Not unexpectedly, given our past. It's even in our constitution.
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blizzard
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posted April 17, 2025 10:10 PM |
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Well, yeah, Islamism is more serious than fascism, but that is still very small compared to FENTANYL or DIET. Americans are good at killing themselves slowly. We don't need Neonazis or Hamas to do it for us.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 17, 2025 10:12 PM |
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And more whataboutism of Salamandre.
Have you any idea how many of all the violence in the world is done by men? And you say who is the problem?
Everyone knows - and I mean EVERYONE - if you take out YOUNG MEN of any violence related statistics there is not much left.
There - problem solved. Just put all young men behind bars until they are not so young anymore.
Stop your whataboutism already.
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