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| Thread: So. You guys still think Trump is no problem? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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blizzard
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posted April 17, 2025 10:16 PM |
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@JJ.
No. What you have is appropriately called a phobia as a result of collective trauma from the past. Neo-Nazis are a MINOR problem in Germany. They're also a minor problem in the US, and we have more self-identified than anybody.
Actual serious problems in Germany: people are having less sex and less kids, depression is up, zombification is up, economy is crap, education is crap, diet is becoming crap.
Trivial problems in Germany: Nazis.
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blizzard
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posted April 17, 2025 10:23 PM |
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Edited by blizzard at 22:31, 17 Apr 2025.
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I'll just point out that in the US, you have a lot of young African American men who suddenly decide to identify as Muslims that also get wrapped up in gangs and such. Some of the traditional views related to women are appealing to them. So, the statistics on Islamism-related attacks and murder are very questionable. Sometimes it is more gang-related. Actual Muslims or cultural Muslims usually tiptoe around them and don't understand them.
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Salamandre
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posted April 17, 2025 11:15 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
And more whataboutism of Salamandre.
Not so much. It is you who endlessly rant about fascists everywhere, but when it comes to real threats, thousands of terrorists attacks, you chicken out. And I don't mention the daily assaults and humiliations European women have to pass through, majorly coming from same side.
Out of touch.
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Galaad
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posted April 17, 2025 11:32 PM |
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Salamandre said:
majorly coming from same side.
You have the statistics for that?
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Salamandre
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posted April 18, 2025 12:25 AM |
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Galaad
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Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 18, 2025 01:04 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 01:05, 18 Apr 2025.
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Salamandre said:
France
Please be serious.
That article is based on partial and non-representative data. That figure refers to only 30 solved cases out of 97 incidents —less than one-third— and covers only public space assaults in Paris, not all sexual violence cases.
According to the French Ministry's official statistics (SSMSI), in 2020, 14% of suspects in sexual violence cases were foreign nationals across France —a figure that’s been relatively stable since 2010. While this shows some overrepresentation, it is nowhere near the 77% cited by the article.
For reliable insights, it's crucial to consult complete SSMSI reports, not selective leaks lacking context.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 18, 2025 08:21 AM |
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blizzard said:
@JJ.
No. What you have is appropriately called a phobia as a result of collective trauma from the past. Neo-Nazis are a MINOR problem in Germany. They're also a minor problem in the US, and we have more self-identified than anybody.
Actual serious problems in Germany: people are having less sex and less kids, depression is up, zombification is up, economy is crap, education is crap, diet is becoming crap.
Trivial problems in Germany: Nazis.
Just goes to show you're missing perspective. You know the last time, when depression was up, economy was crap, zombification was up, education was crap and dient was crap? And an extreme right-wing party got 20% in an election? And winning them in a couple of German states, even?
If you look for a major problem then it is the fact that the world is facing a few, but the powers that are don't acknowledge them.
And the issue isn't Germany. It's Trump and his "government".
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Salamandre
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posted April 18, 2025 10:36 AM |
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Galaad said:
Please be serious.
First, my post wasn't some "whataboutism", but a direct reply to this comment by JJ, whining about how men gang up on women via internet or else. So, let's be more precise, which men.
So, what you need here is to give me statistics that "right wing fascists" are THE specific threat to women, today, because their ideology. That was the point of debate. Is right-leaning convictions leading to less respect of women than left-leaning ? Take this JJ logic for example : Kamala lost because right leaning voters are misogynistic.
What about Marine le Pen losing 3 times in a row ?
Until that the point is up : the main threat is Islam and all of you don't have the guts to admit it. Moreover, you keep playing huffy when mentioned, which is mind blowing given the data we have.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 18, 2025 12:08 PM |
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The post you link to was meant as an explanation for Blizzard on "censorship" of the internet. I said:
Quote:
if you look at fascism in Italy and in Germany (and in the white supremacist movements in the US), they all have one thing in common: a sense of ENTITLEMENT. The fascists in Italy felt done over, not getting in full after WW I what had been promised to them. Same in Germany, combined with racial entitlement.
Today, the entitlement is still there. The whole anti-woke nonsense is permeated by a sense of entitlement - not to put up with that BS any longer.
And social media is EXACTLY what the pissed-off self-entitled average uncertain dumb-ass needed to FINALLY vent off steam and tell everyone how they feel. About the foreigners and migrants, about women, especially FEMINIST women, Jews, blacks, muslims, pakis, you name it.
That describes the actual psychological heart of fascism. And why right-wing populism works (and ends in actual fascism).
The actual skinhead Nazis with the baseball bats are what the SA was 90 years ago in Germany. They might be football hooligans as well, taking part in "fan clashes" before games, especially derbies.
And violence against women is a general male thing, obviously. Just looking at the amount.
And that Kamala Harris lost because she's a woman is rather obvious. And I'm not the only one saying that.
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Galaad
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Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 18, 2025 02:08 PM |
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Salamandre said:
First, my post wasn't some "whataboutism", but a direct reply to this comment by JJ, whining about how men gang up on women via internet or else. So, let's be more precise, which men.
So, what you need here is to give me statistics that "right wing fascists" are THE specific threat to women, today, because their ideology. That was the point of debate. Is right-leaning convictions leading to less respect of women than left-leaning ? Take this JJ logic for example : Kamala lost because right leaning voters are misogynistic.
What about Marine le Pen losing 3 times in a row ?
Until that the point is up : the main threat is Islam and all of you don't have the guts to admit it. Moreover, you keep playing huffy when mentioned, which is mind blowing given the data we have.
You’re responding to SSMSI crime statistics —official data from the French Interior Ministry— with a Wikipedia article on women in Islam. These are two very different kinds of sources: one is factual reporting on criminal behavior; the other is a broad overview of religious and cultural practices.
I shared concrete numbers on sexual violence in France. You shifted the topic to religion and made broad claims about Islam based on selected parts of a general summary. That’s not a reliable way to understand complex social issues.
If you want to explore how ideology might relate to violence, that’s a valid question. But we’d need data showing how political or religious beliefs correlate with criminal acts. Without that, saying "Islam is the main threat" isn’t a conclusion —it’s an assumption.
Even the SSMSI data, where some foreign nationals are overrepresented in specific contexts, comes with important caveats. It warns explicitly against equating nationality with religion or drawing simplistic conclusions.
So if the goal is an informed discussion, let’s ground it in actual data, not generalizations.
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blizzard
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posted April 18, 2025 03:04 PM |
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@JJ
Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
Like I mentioned before, Hillary Clinton did safely win the election over Trump by direct vote btw. Trump legally became president of course, because of electoral votes. That is another constitutional issue, just like the power of pardon is a constitutional issue. The constitution is very old and it needs reworking, but it is very difficult to amend.
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Rimgrabber 
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posted April 18, 2025 04:13 PM |
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I'm afraid I have to push back on the idea that Kamala Harris lost because she was a woman. It was probably contributing factor but Michigan and Wisconsin both elected democratic women to the Senate in 2024 even as they voted for Trump and plenty of states that voted for Trump have Democrat women as governors. Kamala Harris lost because she tried to triangulate her position on Gaza and lost the Muslim vote, refused to differentiate herself more from Biden while he was a historically unpopular incumbent, and campaigned with neocons like Liz Cheney to pursue the mythical moderate Republican vote that hasn't been a sizable voting bloc for decades. She ran a terrible campaign. If she was a man she still would have lost, and she could have won despite being a woman. The problem is that the Democratic Party is allergic to campaigning competently.
I will remind everyone that Joe Biden 's 2020 victory was the textbook definition of a fluke. He only won the nomination because the entire establishment wing dropped out to endorse him despite most of the other establishment candidates being ahead of him in the primary at that point, and his margins of victory over Trump in the tipping point states were smaller than Trump's were over Clinton despite the fact that Trump was by 2020 also a historically unpopular incumbent overseeing a failed response to a pandemic and an economic recession. Dems didn't win because of Biden, they won in spite of him, and the conditions that allowed that were not present this time.
I wanna be really clear that I'm not trying to minimize the role misogyny still plays in American society, however as someone who works in politics for a living, I promise you that was not the deciding factor here. The democratic party's insistence that it is is because they're run but incompetent morons who have fallen up their whole careers and they don't want to change course. Neoliberalism is an ideology that Americans have thoroughly rejected but they would rather lose forever than ever admit that.
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artu
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posted April 18, 2025 04:21 PM |
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As someone who works in politics for a living, what would you say is the main difference between liberalism (as Americans use the word, so not liberterieanism) and neoliberalism?
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Rimgrabber
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posted April 18, 2025 04:42 PM |
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My honest answer is that liberalism as Americans use the word is a barely coherent blanket term for a lot of contradicting things. A lot of the time it is used interchangeably with neoliberalism but I would say that the Democratic Party falls into roughly 3 camps right now: the neoliberal Bill Clinton-esque "New Democrats" who are proudly center right on economic and environmental issues while still being socially progressive most of the time (this is internally the dominate faction,) the center left progressives and social Democrats like Bernie Sanders, AOC, and Elizabeth Warren who sometimes call themselves socialists but are closer to being FDR-esque New Deal liberals (this is the faction that has the most grassroots support but is generally hated by the neoliberals that dominate internal party politics,) and the moderate conservatives(this group is most common among city level officials in cities where Republicans can't overcome the party registration gap, but there are some notable national representatives like Jared Golden and until recently Joe Manchin.)
So when people talk about "liberals" they're usually using it as a blanket term for all of these very different groups, and also sometimes even for socialists and communists because the two party system is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people try to retrofit other things into it.
I don't know if that answers your question exactly, but in general discourse "liberal" and "leftist" are used interchangeably with each other and with "Democrat" which is part of the reason why discourse in American politics seems to have entered a post-truth era. The two party system and horserace punditry have caused terms that used to have clear meanings to now be self contradicting blanket terms.
Neoliberalism, in particular, I would define as a center right ideology that puts businesses above everything else and uses public money to generate private profit through things like subsides and public private partnerships. Usually it is accompanied by being socially progressive because it views minorites as customers to market themselves to.
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Salamandre
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posted April 18, 2025 05:09 PM |
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@ Galaad,
Sorry that you can't connect simple dots and need to resort the the vague "complex social issues" refrain, when it is about an ideology written in stone followed by actions and attitudes derived from, hence the link to how Islam considers women. You are making circumvolutions around the core of the problem.
You evacuated in a second the data acknowledging that 77% of street rape assaults in Paris are caused by foreigners (we don't have ethnic statistics but we know from which countries the majority of them are, Algeria, Tunis and Maroc), linking instead to a study acknowledging that 13% of physical violence of women are caused by foreigners, which is already asserting they are hugely over-represented. But what that study doesn't say is the ethnic and religious background of such "nationals" - since is prohibited in France -, and here is the key.
The irony is, self called feminists keep spinning in a whirlpool and insist to defend, tooth and nail, all minorities, despite them conflicting each other, so that's it. I don't believe in your "social issues" diversion, because if there was such reality, then we would not have all Islamic countries at the bottom line of how women are considered, spoiled from fundamental rights and freedom of instruction. And that's factual.
We import a culture, as simple as that. That culture is today, the closest to fascism you can get.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 18, 2025 05:39 PM |
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That's bollocks. The islam doesn't say anywhere that you can rape women. Conversely, Christian religion and Judaism don't consider women as "equal righted". And China? Japan? Are women better off there? Have you ever seen a Chinese woman in a position of power?
That women suffer from violence is generally a global problem - a MALE problem, not an ideological one (you might say that the respective ideologies/religion reflect the actual situation.
And when all that is said - yeah, sure. If you are a 20 year old male with certain ideas about women and you are new in a democratic country - many of those women look like snows.
And with THAT said, THAT was and is always an argument, when regular Western Christian people were/are accused of rape, right? "She looked like a lut, like she wanted it". And we had a time when they did get away with that (and I'm not sure this time is completely over).
The general migration problem is, that our countries don't invest enough into making sure, every migrant understands what they are coming into, what rules there are and what the law says.
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blizzard
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posted April 18, 2025 06:24 PM |
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Edited by blizzard at 18:35, 18 Apr 2025.
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Appealing to moderates can work. Hillary did that and she won the vote, but that is because she actually is more moderate. It was a mostly transparent presidential run.
Kamala tried to do it. Problem is, while the public's memory is short, it isn't that short. People could remember Kamala Harris 2019 and Kamala Harris 2024 and how 2024 Kamala Harris was strangely more moderate all of the sudden. It was not a believable campaign. Also, when she ran for president on her own, she never got past the single digits.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 18, 2025 06:38 PM |
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Yes, sure. People tend to reproduce what they are taught. It's women who do the female genital cutting, not men. Not all women are FOR abortion. Not all women believe they ARE equal to men. There ARE those who are suffering from something like Stockholm-syndrome. There have always been slaves being happy with doing their masters's bidding and keep other slaves in check.
If anything, that's just prove for how backwards the US still are in parts.
So what exactly do you want to tell me? That women are stupid?
It's worse than I thought with you lot here.
EDIT: Editing that out doesn't help - I've read it.
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blizzard
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posted April 18, 2025 06:43 PM |
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blizzard
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posted April 18, 2025 06:51 PM |
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The harder demographic for a female candidate to win is women, because their male contenders consistently perform better with women.
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