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| Thread: So. You guys still think Trump is no problem? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Rimgrabber
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posted April 19, 2025 06:50 PM |
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You're right about that, but the reality is in most of the country it isn't 2 parties dominating. It is 1 out of 2 parties. There is literally 0 reason other than inertia and propaganda for a county this big to not have a multiparty system, even if its 2 major parties per area, of that makes sense. Luckily alternate electoral models that are more proportional and democratic are gaining momentum.
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blizzard
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posted April 19, 2025 07:08 PM |
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It isn't just momentum. Everybody today is habituated to quick and simple stuff, including this forum's most esteemed poster, which is why preferential options should be built into the ballot itself.
Anyway, I wasn't accusing you of being a spoiler voter or something. I just don't meet many people who are longterm 3rd party voters. I'm not far outside DC and the 2 parties rule in this area
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JollyJoker
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posted April 19, 2025 08:53 PM |
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Rimgrabber said:
If you're asserting that Muslims are just too sexist to vote for a women, you should know that Stein won 53% of the Muslim vote. Harris refused to condemn a genocide that her boss was overseeing against Palestine. It takes a LOT of nerve for you to look at that and dismiss them not voting for her as sexism. Stein got 53%, Trump got 23%, and Harris got 22%. The other candidates got 2% between them. So fully 3 quarters of Muslims in America voted for a woman this year
Yeah - maybe. Although we are talking about just ONE poll with 1500 people. But switching from Biden to STEIN? They could have voted for Shakira as well. And they knew it, obviously. So I'm not sold to that idea.
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Rimgrabber
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posted April 19, 2025 09:29 PM |
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Again, dismissively saying "they could have voted for Shakira and they know it" when the candidate they voted for was the only one sticking up for their community against the imperial death machine is absolutely crazy. And that's not according to just one poll, there were several spanning from before Biden dropped out until this exit poll that I am citing, many of which were surveying tens of thousands of people. They also followed the pattern of Biden getting crushed, Harris surging when she announced and people thought she might be different, and then plummeting almost down to Biden's level when it became clear she wasn't. Stein was consistently in first place, aside from "undecided" in one poll, because she was listening and fighting for them when nobody else was. If it were sexism they would have voted for Oliver, or West, or Kennedy in the states where he was still on the ballot. Hell if they secretly wanted Trump to win they would have just voted for Trump. They didn't, there was an organized grassroots push for Stein which by the way hasn't fizzled out. Many of those organizers are still trying to build an opposition party locally.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 19, 2025 10:19 PM |
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The only thing I can find in the whole internet is ONE CAIR poll, while TRUMP won the most muslim-populated town Dearborn, Stein getting 18%, though.
And pardon me, if I don't trust orthodox muslims and Christians to not be sexist in their majority. I'm pretty sure a lot are. Because the religions themselves are sexist. The question, though, is what is more important to them in this case specifically.
And if they voted Stein and helped Trump win, they'll probably be pretty down at this point, because Trump certainly isn't helping the Palestinian side - now they cannot even voice support for them without having to fear action.
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Rimgrabber
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posted April 19, 2025 10:44 PM |
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Yeah you couldn't do that under Biden either. Students and protesters were regularly beaten, arrested, and kidnapped by "plainclothes officers." That was the whole point of the abandon Biden movement. Stein herself was assaulted by the police at one of the protests.
This whole condescending attitude towards people who are experiencing horrific crimes against humanity and blaming them for trying to fight back is incredibly disgusting and I sincerely hope that you reexamine it.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 19, 2025 10:56 PM |
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You mean, people who are victims of police brutality due to their political convictions cannot be sexist or are excused for being so?
I sincerely hope that you reexamine that.
Or are you talking about the Palestinians themselves - about whom I didn't say anything, except that if they ARE orthodox or fundamental muslims they believe in a sexst religions and chances are pretty good that they are sexist themselves.
I don't think you want to give everyone a free pass who fell on injustice, soome form of violence or other misfortune, do you?
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JollyJoker
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posted April 22, 2025 09:30 AM |
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blizzard
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posted April 22, 2025 03:27 PM |
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Edited by blizzard at 15:31, 22 Apr 2025.
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This is a broken record at this point, but what is so unique about political figures creating their own narrative of reality? Only the Nazis did that? I don't understand.
There is a ton of climate denial out there other than Trump. It isn't Nazism. It is more like when somebody is as wide as they are tall and they haven't accepted they've got a problem with sugar. It is because they don't want to deal with it, because it is hard and stressful and maybe scary to deal with, so they avoid it. Climate change is a pretty scary thing, especially in the long-term.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 22, 2025 03:59 PM |
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It's not about CREATING "A" narrative.
It's about CONTROLLING "THE" narrative.
The Nazis did something called "Gleichschaltung" of all media. On one they made it possible that everyone could afford a radio, a so-called "Volksempfänger", and on the other they controlled the media, that is, press and radio, so people read and heard only what they wanted them to read and hear. (Of course you could receive "enemy" stations, but that was forbidden and would be punished severely - officially of course, because the enemy would try to undermine the moral of the German people by telling a bunch of lies.)
Do you think it's happenstance that Trump and Musk each own their own social media outlet? That the big media outlets are controlled by billionaires? And that they try to ... well, influence the media?
Of course you cannot do it the way they could 90 years ago, but today you can do a lot by paying people for spreading a narrative in the social media.
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Salamandre
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posted April 22, 2025 04:21 PM |
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I don't get why the fuss about. 95% of mainstream is anti-Trump, since his election I didn't find one alone article positive or at least neutral. When you have that - and THIS is the main problem because it asserts that 70 millions of voters are knuckleheads, alternative medias on social platforms will be your target, if you want to get what's going on, outside fanaticism and sectarianism.
Then is up to everyone to make his opinion. Wrong or not, this is how democracy works, everyone is entitled to an opinion. A fascist trend would be to deny that.
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blizzard
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posted April 22, 2025 04:34 PM |
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Trump got banned from multiple social media platforms before he moved to his own. He can't not be active on social media cause he's hooked to it.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 22, 2025 04:48 PM |
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Media are not "anti-Trump". They are critical of a president who is lying through his teeth and thinks he is the sun king reborn and pretty obviously try to undermine the political system. And it's certainly not 95% in the US.
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Salamandre
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posted April 22, 2025 05:01 PM |
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Give me a break. 4 years of supposed Russian collusion, hammering day and night on every media, and now, even more mind blogging, the Wokepedia article about the investigation states that " we didn't find any proof of that but that DOESN'T mean there wasn't any". Seriously ?
At this point, is not only anti-trump, is fanatically trying to lobotomize everyone. Then every media, including social platforms censoring the Biden's son affair, on order from the FBI, is what ? And so on, could go for one hour, the capitol, the "rape" affairs with women having a memory recover after 25 years, etc etc.
I can't avoid mainstream because they pop in my eyes every time I open television or internet, but is not up to you or anyone to tell me to not look elsewhere for more details. You don't agree, that's fine. Your arguments don't sound convincing to me neither. Never did.
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blizzard
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posted April 22, 2025 05:06 PM |
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That is simply not true. There are extremely large and influential media platforms that either avoid criticizing Trump or are openly friendly with him. Media is divided, not monolithic.
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Ghost
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Therefore I am
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posted April 22, 2025 05:10 PM |
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Right that media isn't anti-Trump, when Finnish ex-ice hockey Selanne and his wife voted/supported Trump, but why Trump's mind changed.. First Trump said the US supports Ukraine, do you remember that Trump visited in Ukraine? Selanne doesn't know, but Selanne waits the next meeting, when they are friend..
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Blizzard
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posted April 22, 2025 05:10 PM |
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You do realize for 8 solid years, various journalists and other people (such as Trump himself) were working to try to get Obama out of office, right? Do you not remember the extremely intelligent, transparent, and totally honest Birther movement? Trump isn't that special.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 22, 2025 06:05 PM |
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It doesn't actually matter whether a media outlet is in anyone's camp or mainstream or whatever - what matters is whether it's true or not.
Take for example this little piece of journalism. Yes, it's anti-Trump (obviously), yes, it's a liberal outlet, the NBC News Channel - but IS IT TRUE?
Looks true to me. If you can believe Wall Street Journal.
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Salamandre
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posted April 22, 2025 07:58 PM |
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Maybe is true, maybe not. You will never read me saying Trump doesn't lie, actually if you read back in the 2016 election thread, my last words were not "he lost because bad people against", but that he lost because opened his big mouth too much, spouting nonsense. I never said his defeat was unjust, stolen or whatever. But now he is back, and he earned it the democratic way.
However, and this is my only point : others lie as well. Is not reality vs Trump' s world, is democrat Pinocchio against republican Pinocchio. Had they hear Trump stutter two words, they would call for immediate dismiss, but when Biden couldn't align one phrase correctly, while he had the nuclear commands and his actions could lead to possible war with Russia, those noticing it were told they are on a conspiracy level and out of reality. When Trump farts, they report an hurricane.
Right now, we have EU leaders preparing an astronomic loan because Russia is on his way to take Paris, London and Berlin. As they say. Those are Europeans Pinocchio. WE pay. WE will die if war starts, while they will hide in deep bunkers and no one will find then hang to the first tree, as they deserve if that happens.
So, Blizz says Trump is no special. Okay, he isn't.
You say medias are objective because there are only negative actions.
No, there aren't only negatives. Trump should have got Nobel peace prize because Abraham accords. Should be proposed for Nobel peace prize for his attempts to make peace between Russia and Ukraine, which would have work and save hundreds of thousands of lives if only EU didn't have that huge ego where can't admit they lost, that it's over, denial which in time will cause Ukraine to totally be crushed.
After all, the standards are not so high, Obama got his Nobel only because his bum is black.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 22, 2025 08:25 PM |
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That's utterly ridiculous.
What Trump calls "peace" is Ukraine accepting defeat - without any guarantees for Ukraine in the future. At the same time he wants far-reaching economic deals with both Ukraine and Russia. What do YOU think, why that is? It's because China isn't selling any more rare eraths into the US and Trump needs to get them ELSEwhere.
Nobel price for peace? That corruption video I linked to should - AGAIN - show you what this guy is first and foremost interested in.
And then - every politician lying. Well, sure. Probably. They probably all lie at one point or another. But they also tell the truth when they don't lie. Trump, though, he doesn't even know what that word means, other than "truth is what I say".
With Russia having declared war against a European country AND Trump raising the stakes with China, there is nothing wrong with making sure Europe can stand their own. The USA aren't TRUSTWORTHY anymore.
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