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| Thread: The miracle of life | |
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted September 17, 2003 01:56 PM |
bonus applied. |
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The miracle of life
Life
0-80 years for humans
in a body that moves
and thinks
and loves
ís that it?
not to me.
to me, life is a gift. We are given life, choice, and the power to decide how to live it. What to do with it all.
You can flow with the stream, get a job, a family, and live like everyone else. You can end it. Or you can linger on what life is, and what its for.
Life is for living. Thats what its for. But some people see through the everyday life and see something else. Ideals, great ideas, and dream things that never were, and ask "why not?". I think I do that. Im a dreamer.
To me, dreams and ideals are just as important as reality, and I live in a mix of both. Sometimes I drift away in thought, and return to real life as from a dream, although awake. And they are wondrous..
I live in reality, and I handle it well. Got my own apartment, have experienced a long loving relationship, go to one of the best schools in sweden, and dress well. But reality is far from everything.
I try to get the best from both worlds. We all live in reality, so why not make the most of that? and still keep the dreams and ideals. Im trying to do that.
Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to not have the dreams, the ideals. To only see reality, and only care about whats real. I may never know. But I know that some people dont care for dreams. Others live only in dreams, and go to mental hospitals. They are of no use to anyone else if they do that. Real life is a comprimise we all live in. The combination of nature, and all our individual inner worlds. like a partial amount.
Sometimes I think "its only reality". Ideals shouldnt give in to reality, unless it is to make someone else happy. There are wars, starvation, crimes, slavery, disease..
all this in reality. But dreams dont have to care about that. We are human, and we have the ability to dream. Its possible to imagine a way we all could live together, to create a peaceful reality in wich to live while we dream togeter.
Maybe it would be boring. And maybe thats why there are wars. Maybe life is just a game. and maybe its more than anyone of us knows.
I belive that life is the power to write the pages of history. We can do anything we want. We can give in to evil and egoism, or we can be heroes and live according to the good ideals. We have a choice, and that choice is because of life.
Jobs, money, cars.. all these are things we invented. They are no less real than a superman comic is. We can invent other things. I think we can invent lasting peace and understanding. Sometimes I think we have to, considering the raving weapon technology development.
On the other hand.. life is for living.
Maybe the best approach is to just live it.
Love trancends life anyway 
So what do you think?
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted September 17, 2003 03:05 PM |
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that you think too much? 
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BoogieMan
Famous Hero
The John of Spades
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posted September 17, 2003 08:12 PM |
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Bjoooorn, are you out there? *echo* ... are you out there ... 're you out there ... out there?
No, seriously, I can really grasp what you're saying, Bjorn. I know people that have no dreams, they're empty and live by sthereotypes. "I have to study, get a job, marry and have kids because ... well, just because THIS is what I'm supposed to do. Doesn't everybody else do that too?" and they let life pass them and get old, with nobody caring for them because they cared of nobody... And when death reaches for them they look back and see that they've lived just so they wouldn't die, and I can only guess how it would feel to know that your entire existance has been fruitless, loveless, pointless.
And even more seriously, I hope that your post wasn't a pile of orc poo, 'cuz then, I would feel really stupid for believing you meant what you wrote 
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The BoogieMan wrote ... and saw that it was good.
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted September 18, 2003 11:35 PM |
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Are you an Aquarius?
I think there are two worlds - one is the world and the other is the description of it in our head made up of words - labels that themselves do not exist. I think we live in the second world most of the time. I remember once looking at a tree and thinking how amazing it is, until a thought appeared in my mind, "tree", and all amazement ended, and perception of reality ended. Those are the transitions I believe.
I've discovered that most of the time we live in imagined realities, we imagine things about the people and the world and live as though they are true. So sometimes I try to make things up deliberately rather than automatically and believe them to be real. I think while we live in the concept-reality (we percieve world through words rather than senses), we can learn to literally alter our world. But I don't think it's as satisfying as percieving reality without definition.
Sometimes I get irritated at not having changed the world lately We are born, we live and we die. It's the in between part. What am I going to do with it? I agree with BoogieMan that it's a waste doing what you're supposed to do. It may be a form of approval seeking, "there, now I have a proper life, unlike them", but the satisfaction is not guaranteed. So I took on a quest of building a foundation - flat, car, education, money - to get the basics of living sorted and under good maintanence. Otherwise when I have the next dream I think "uh but I gotta do this and this first, oh nevermind". I want to see what happens when I am free to follow my dreams.
At the moment I hold the view that life is for experiencing yourself. You can say I'm this and you can be it and see what it feels like. Then you can say nah, I'm this.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted September 19, 2003 07:26 AM |
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Im a scorpio (sun sign) and pisces (moon sign). "8-12 Scorpio/Pisces
The combination of your Sun sign and your Moon sign produces a person with terrific intuition and sense that ordinary people simply don't have. You are overly dramatic and frequently exaggerate problems. You are, likewise, able to capture the drama of your surroundings as well as the imagination of the public. Yours is an emotional profundity that lends a great deal of inspiration to your personality. You attack any problem with unswerving enthusiasm and devotion, always giving more that just a part of yourself to your causes or ideals. Here there is a blend of the emotional force, determination and will power of Scorpio with the sensitivity, impressionability and intuitive insight of Pisces. This produces a strongly emotional and somewhat psychic or receptive and impressionable nature. A studious and intellectual bend permits you to succeed, especially in literary or artistic endeavors. You are very creative, but your success may be more from a willingness to apply yourself than from pure talent. On the down side, you are anxious and worry too much. Positive thinking is essential for you to attain personal balance and peace of mind. There are unexpected depths in your nature and you succeed by concentrating your energies on definite objectives, avoiding the tendency to dispense emotional energies and intellectual power in overemphasis on romance, daydreaming or negative apprehensions or worries."
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/astrology.html
I feel most of this is applicable on me. Maybe sometimes ppl have noticed it on HC, especially "You are overly dramatic and frequently exaggerate problems." hehe sowwy bout dat.
I havent looked at a tree like that, but straws of grass, and the stars.. one of my main goals in life is to find a girl that sees past our social constructions of reality and just gazes freely into truth and love, the things I consider more real than even a ton of bricks. They are rare, but I get the feeling that if they exist, they are most surely playing computer games. lol
In the mean time I try my best to create a good foundation to change the world too. Reality might not be the best of places, but its still the only place to get a good meal. And so many ppl believe in reality, that if you want to make a change, you have to use the dormant logic of the current system of values to introduce a new and better idea, that grows to be defended more passionately than the old reality idea.
Much like the passing from religion to science, there will probably be a passing from science to something else.. perhaps spirituality, or something else. Science is good at making models that (after extensive testing and modification) seem to work well. The thing is, they are based on trial-and-error and evolution of knowledge.
After all.. if math was the truth, and science was right, everything would work right away. It doesnt, and thus, science is just a tool to be used to create a nice reality for us. Alot of ppl confuse science with truth, and the tool with the goal. Its not about who builds the largest building or the biggest boat, its about surviving and going to other countries. What we build are just tools. What we calculate are just models. The real truth lies within. And because I am driven by passion, I have to say, that the real truth lies in your heart.
The meaning of life is love.
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted September 19, 2003 01:46 PM |
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Hey do they make girls like that anyway? The nice ones often did not experience enough difficulty in life to make them think. It seems to me that the people with the deepest undserstanding have been in some form of isolation. I tend to think if I managed to turn out like this, can't be the only one. Computer games though... wouldn't they rather be gazing on stars? Gotta fish in the river man
You sound like you also get the feeling that everybody wants the same thing deep inside, but keep doing other stupid stuff, and will unmistakeably think that you are stupid should you mention it.
Very true about working through the current consensus perception of reality. Such a drag, no?
What do you think about doing things for the better of people? I've experienced the worst treatment from the best of intentions. When I had the best of intentions and stood behind them, oftentimes I've been resented. I suppose it matters whether there's force involved.
Science... well, it hasn't cured the domestic violence, nor has it even a clue of how brain really works, except for naming its components and chemical processes. It's the new and improved digging stick if I'll be sarcastic. Different tools for same mind.
Science has been adopted especially when religion disproved truths discovered and proven through it. Hmmm, spirituality in my opinion works the other way around from science: belief leading to evidence rather than evidence leading to belief. This way belief or truth is not limited by available evidence or its consistency.
Is there a meaning of life other than what is believed to be the meaning of life? I was being eaten by perfectionism lately, so I've decided that properness, righteousness and meaning of time spent is made up and between birth and death is basically a big waste of time that we give different names. I don't mean waste of time in a litteral sense, it's just a funny thing to say. I don't take drugs.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted September 19, 2003 04:41 PM |
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Quote:
Very true about working through the current consensus perception of reality. Such a drag, no?
What do you think about doing things for the better of people? I've experienced the worst treatment from the best of intentions. When I had the best of intentions and stood behind them, oftentimes I've been resented. I suppose it matters whether there's force involved.
1. Working through the current consensus perception of reality:
Its both good and bad. Bad, because we can't say straight out what we feel should change, because we would be branded crazy and locked up. Good, because we can study reality and find the ways to change things. Because social reality is determined by us humans, we have the power to comprehend it, and thus use it to our advantage. Also called "roll with the punches". Im lucky enough to go to a school that teaches this not only in theory but also with a bit of practice (but u have to read between the lines of the course litterature to grasp it)
2. Doing things for the better of ppl. Im gonna start with a quote here:
Albert Schweitzer:
Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it.
And another one:
"Alexander Pope:
Do good by stealth, and blush to find it fame."
Sadly, claiming to do good, verbally or in a insinuating way, has often been the path of evildoers. People dont want to hear someone saying that they are doing good, because if they need to say it, they cant actually be doing it. This goes for alot of things, if u need to say it, your not doing it well enough.. but also for good.
To do good is a heavy burden to carry. Nobody will tell you "wow u r a saint" until possibly when your dead, and most of the time, people dont really notice. I try to do good by stealth, as in the quote, and then I feel happy about it. Nobody has to know
Also, my values are that all people know whats best for them themselves. I cant know that. So I feel its important that people get as much freedom as choice, and power to enforce those choices, as long as it doesnt hurt others. I totally disagree with those right wing US nuts that like to do it with guns in the desert and shoot everyone hehe My freedom is more like financial, geographical, spiritual and friendly freedom. People should be able to make enough money to get by and chose their jobs more, they should be able to go anywhere they like as long as they can pay for the trip. They should be able to think what they want and feel what they want. And nobody shuld be mean to them.
I would only use force against the powers that use force themselves. But not voilent force.. I would use diplomacy, culture, values and ideas. The world has been saturated with weapons, its not really possible to overpower someone anymore that way. The battle ahead is one of words, thoughts and ideals. Marketing is a great power these days.
I see a clear distinction between good and evil though. An evil person would kill someone, take his money, and become rich. A good person would talk to the other person, share ideas and goals, and cooperate with him to make them both rich, together. The way of evil is faster, but only works for materialistic people. Seing other people happy makes me happy, and thats the road I want to take.
And finally, my last quote:
"Anne Frank:
In spite of everything I still believe that people are really good at heart. I simply can't build up my hopes on a foundation consisting of confusion, misery and death."
I believe that most people are good at heart. Most of them go with the flow without thinking much of it, but they are good poeple. Some day we will all live in peace and harmony, with a voluntary smile on our faces and bright skies.
But for now, reality is the best we can do. However, some lucky people have the gift of dreams.. Now excuse me while I kiss the sky! 
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted September 21, 2003 06:33 AM |
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Quote:
Sadly, claiming to do good, verbally or in a insinuating way, has often been the path of evildoers. People dont want to hear someone saying that they are doing good, because if they need to say it, they cant actually be doing it. This goes for alot of things, if u need to say it, your not doing it well enough.. but also for good.
Agree. Like in Taoism "the one who speaks does not know, the one who knows does not speak".
Hmmm, I suppose claims to be doing good without a prior question upon it are similar to requests for assistance or reassurance. Convincing another what is good, adjusting their system of values is a great tool of manipulation, mental programming. I think the greatest gain can be had by neither the winner or the looser, but by the one who dictates what is constituted as a win.
Quote:
To do good is a heavy burden to carry. Nobody will tell you "wow u r a saint" until possibly when your dead, and most of the time, people dont really notice. I try to do good by stealth, as in the quote, and then I feel happy about it. Nobody has to know
Yes, it only takes a claim to be doing good and numerous counter-claims arrise, and one may end up feeling like a villan. A lot of people know that they are not doing much good for others, and if they see that someone else might be, they will try to disprove it, rather than following the example.
Quote:
Also, my values are that all people know whats best for them themselves. I cant know that. So I feel its important that people get as much freedom as choice, and power to enforce those choices, as long as it doesnt hurt others.
What do you do when someone is making choice that are hurting themselves in ways they don't realize?
I used to hold the belief that all people are good, or most. I don't think that way any more. Somewhere deep inside every person, when they gain clarity and conciousness to realise what they are choosing and how it affects others and themselves in the end, they are good. But I see majority of people as quite unconcious, that before you get to experience their goodness, they will pour so much **** on you, just from the way they are conditioned, that they will only become good when they see that you've been open, that they've succeeded in inflicting pain and some sort of compassion awakens... unless you've had enough love for yourself to get the hell out of there before it gets to this point. I think most people don't know themselves, they are numb to their own feelings and consequently to how others are affected by their actions.
And in order to not be aware of that, they engage in extremely repetitive behaviour patterns, such as watching TV or small talk, while not engaging in practices of self awareness or opening up to meaningful conversations.
I haven't went much further. All I've done is stop some repetitive behaviours that were keeping me unconcious, and at the moment I do not have much to put in that place.
A popular pattern at HC imo is tossing - invalidating posts that reveal something other than useful information or detached humour. Tossing is usually done in a form of detached humour, and sometimes refers to the lack of useful information in the post or the poster. Hehe.
What do you think about my view of people?
____________
You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted September 21, 2003 08:28 AM |
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Quote:
What do you think about my view of people?
I think its all valid. My view of good tho is slightly different. To me, good is something that is deep in a person, they might not even know its there. It's about what they would do if they knew everything that was needed and understood it, if they would chose to do good or evil. I agree that most ppl have no clue, and act on the preset roles of society. Its the easiest way to get by.
What's important though, is that although most people will always follow the preset roles of society, these roles are not fixed. They have changed in the past, and they will change in the future. We, as thinking human beings that are aware of it, can even work to push these roles in the right direction.
I would like to see a society with machines that produce the goods needed for survival and leisure, with some manual monitoring, while the humans use their time for thinking and fun. However, in forming the vision I found myself limited in the progress I want to make, because I dont want the machines to take over. I would like to limit the development of Artificial Intelligence so that the machines will not rise against their masters until some brilliant hacker with a differnt opinion makes it so..
But until the machines take over (of become our equals), it will be a golden age. Maybe some day we will learn to live in peace with machines, if they start fighting for their rights.
But for now, I think ther is room in society for more humanity, compassion and understanding with other people. We should try to make society less competitive and more caring.
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted September 21, 2003 09:48 PM |
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I agree with your view of good in people by the way, I just tend to focus on their acting stereotype.
Before that future happens, individual greed has got to go. Otherways the owner of those machines will become quite wealthy and charge people for food, and they will have to work, etc. At the moment 20% of people of the world hold 86 or more % of world's wealth. Actions of Word Bank, IMF and WTO are very questionable, for example you can't take a WB official to any court in the world. And US, holding the major share in these organisation, preaching democracy, uses totally undemocratic decisionmaking in those organisations regarding the developed countries, often pushing them into debt slavery. One air carrier ship in the sea costs billions to run annually. People in countries like russia are very lucky to get $100 per month at the moment. US after the democratic failing at WTO talks stated that they will now negotiate with nations on individual basis. Would certainly be good to see less competitiveness and greed with major holders of the wealth of today, but I don't see it happening yet.
____________
You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted September 21, 2003 11:40 PM |
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I believe that greed is something that will always exist, and that there should be systems that work alongside greed. There is greed now, so thats the rules of the game. However, I hope that as the intelligence and education of people increases, they will become more compassionate and understanding. The most efficient way to make life on this planet a great thing is probably not to fight with everyone else about resources, as it consumes vast amount of resources with subtracts from the total amount. If we were able and willing to work together with common goals I believe we all would be better off, and that it would be able to last.
Some of these goals are most easily identified if we consider the world as a whole ecosystem, echonomy, family and so on. Once we understand that its not really efficient to trash the planet for fast cash, it should become illegal. Enviromentalism to the extreme, but its neccessary. If the rules allow actions that give vast profits to the idividual organization chosing the action, at a much greater cost to the world as a whole, it should be deemed illegal.
Another goal that I would like to see is that all humans should be able to survive. There should be a common budget for basic food, shelter and healthcare that should be available to everyone. Nothing fancy, to get luxury you should have to work for it. But I think that if everyone can survive no matter what, then thats a healthy base from wich to develop into a good citizen of the world.
Criminals are a problem. They cause great injury to others to get some benefits. Instead of creating wealth, they steal it, often causing more damage than what they stole. These people might be stealing bread to survive, and thats ok. Its societys fault, and is actually morally ok. I believe that I would both lie, cheat, and steal if it made my kids survive another day (I dont have kids yet tho). But, if we manage to implement basic survival, then crimes are no longer justified and can be dealt with more constructively.
Reapetitive criminals that cant be cured should be made unable to perform further crimes. Maybe electronical surveillance, or some other form of control. Its stupid to let a person go free if theres a high probablility that he will commit crimes. If we do that we are responsible for whatever he does. Our actions have reactions, even if its hard to see down a long chain of events.
Once people are guaranteed basic survival, I believe alot of conflicts will end. Usually conflicts take place because of scarcity of resources. The less resources, the more fights. Most wars can be cured with abundance of resources.
I also believe more people might be able to focus on art, science and other such fields. This might create incredible progress for humanity, and should be encouraged.
But.. for now, I think the best ways to improve the world is for the individual to try to be a hero every day. And do something nice. On a more global scale, Im hoping for social reforms that create a safety net for people that are somehow unable to support themselves. I believe this will prevent alot of crime, and make alot of ppl happier, and it probably will save more money than it costs, in the long run.
and I thought about the looking at trees and grass. I think what we see that is to grand, is life. Life that doesnt rely on me(you, us).
A tree is a promise that even when we are long gone, life will go on. And even if we trash this planet bad, life will arise somewhere else in time. Life is a basic force of the universe, and somehow all our small troubles are not so consuming anymore.. because of a tree.
At leats thats what I see
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 22, 2003 01:03 AM |
bonus applied. |
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Quote:
The most efficient way to make life on this planet a great thing is probably not to fight with everyone else about resources, as it consumes vast amount of resources with subtracts from the total amount. If we were able and willing to work together with common goals I believe we all would be better off, and that it would be able to last.
-------------------------------------------------------
A tree is a promise that even when we are long gone, life will go on. And even if we trash this planet bad, life will arise somewhere else in time. Life is a basic force of the universe, and somehow all our small troubles are not so consuming anymore.. because of a tree.
At leats thats what I see
Hate to be a totally pedantic but the way i see it at the moment its all going the wrong way.
I mean its all very well saying everyone should have an equal share of the worlds resources as theres pleanty for all but its no longer going to be the case.
Water is one of the world's most important resources. All life on the planet relies on water for survival, and civilization as we know it would be impossible without a steady supply of fresh water.
People consider water a plentiful natural resource because it covers 75 percent of the world's surface. But 97 % of this is salt water and the tiny percent thats not is mostly kind of tied up in icebergs and such.
Today, water supplies are dwindling throughout the world due to wasteful water used by the society it seems clear you wish everyone lived in.
If this trend continues, in the next 25 years one-third of the world will face severe water scarcity, with devastating consequences for the environment, food production, human health, the world economy, and peace.
So wheres all this water getting used for? Well its trying to feed the world, farmings using 70% of the worlds fresh water. And in the developing countries, agriculture accounts for 80-90 percent of water used.
Kind of ironic that the best chance for survival for the whole world is probably to start undeveloping. Something i fail to see happening.As for trees and life on this planet it seems certain we plan to take it all down with us.
Timber!!!!!!!!!
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted September 22, 2003 12:29 PM |
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Most of that sounds reasonable. However I try to always believe there is a way to make it good, and then I try to figure out that way, and possibly implement it.
I can understand how overpowering the exploiters of the world can seem at times, but its important to remember that in the very moment we stop hoping, we give up any chance of ever succeeding, and we fail inevitably. Hope is a powerful force, and ther is no limit to what it can accomplish.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted September 22, 2003 01:35 PM |
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Nice, living in reality and dreams.
Theres other things too. Like concepts to make dreams come true. Belivers in making the world a better place. Belivers that they can make a huge difference if they could just find the right path, and they way to reach the world.
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What are you up to
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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted September 23, 2003 06:26 PM |
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Dragon_Slayer
Honorable
Supreme Hero
toss toss toss
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posted September 24, 2003 12:08 PM |
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That was very informative Romana
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted September 30, 2003 02:14 PM |
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I think changes in the world only happen through individuals. I only do what I do. You do what you do. I think it is very airy when one talks about high values of society and drives a car that is untuned smokes or throws away food. Not referring to anyone in particular. I try to propose principles that can be done by myself on individual level, as well as by anyone else. Then I do it. Then someone else might, and someone else. Maybe somehow enough people will eventually for the world to change. But all I can really change is do it myself.
I am against waste so I recycle paper, bottles and tins. I sell things I don't need cheaply on online auctions as someone usually has a use for them. I tune my car, it is 1300cc, I don't drive above 60, and 110kph on motorways. I don't smoke, don't drink, don't do drugs. I don't watch TV (I am not against TV, informative programmes and good movies, I just consider broadcast television very poor quality, killing time and adding to unconciousness).
I think if more people live like this the world would be a better place. But it's up to them. I practice what I preach.
____________
You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted October 09, 2003 02:18 AM |
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These people say it better than me..
SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR:
We don't accomplish anything in this world alone ... and whatever happens is the result of the whole tapestry of one's life and all the weavings of individual threads form one to another that creates something
MARIAN WRIGHT EDELMAN: If you don't like the way the world is, you change it. You have an obligation to change it You just do it one step at a time.
MARIAN WRIGHT EDELMAN:
You really can change the world if you care enough.
M. SCOTT PECK:
The whole course of human history may depend on a change of heart in one solitary and even humble individual - for it is in the solitary mind and soul of the individual that the battle between good and evil is waged and ultimately won or lost.
RAINER MARIA RILKE:
For one human being to love another: that is perhaps the most difficult of our tasks; the ultimate, the last test and proof, the work for which all other work is but preparation
ALBERT EINSTEIN:
A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
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Lady_Milena
Honorable
Known Hero
Grannie Sweet Cheeks
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posted October 09, 2003 08:00 AM |
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Bjorn, WTF happened with you, boy? :-o Since WHEN did you become so cerebral? What happened to the cute careless hottie you used to be? Turned to religion? Got married? Had a kid?!
Oi!
*hugs ya*
It's all good, babe, I love ya anyway! :-D
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