|
| Thread: When was your first ancestor? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
|
Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
|
posted October 17, 2003 09:23 PM |
|
|
BoogieMan, you have expressed one of the first thoughts I had when I heard the premise of the program. I was somewhat persuaded by the data however.
Delfontes, when you read the program text, can you do us a favor and note the approximate time period this woman was to have lived? I think that might be causing some of the schepticism -- like I may be vastly underestimating how long ago she really lived. This would help account for the evolutionary unlikelihood point that Boogieman is making.
(Sorry, it's just really been a long time since I saw it).
____________
I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
|
|
BoogieMan
Famous Hero
The John of Spades
|
|
posted October 17, 2003 09:28 PM |
|
|
Quote:
This "Eve" was by no means the source of all the genes in the world's living population. After all, each person is a reshuffled combination of 30,000 genes from many different ancestors stretching back generations. But each person's mtDNA is a copy from only one direct line of ancestors: their mother's mother's mother's mother, etc. In the same way, the mtDNA from Eve merely acts as a tracer that links all present-day humans to a single population of ancient humans, estimated at 10,000 people or so, who lived in Africa several hundred thousand years ago.
This quote is from the above mentioned documentary.
It seems my assumption was right.
____________
The BoogieMan wrote ... and saw that it was good.
|
|
Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
|
|
posted October 17, 2003 09:43 PM |
|
|
Ahhhh! Thanks BoogieMan. I guess I overstated the premise of the show a little. But gee that's really not how I remembered it.
More quotes from the show would be good -- it was fascinating!
____________
I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
|
|
Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
|
|
posted October 17, 2003 09:54 PM |
|
|
I have heard the "Eve" hypothesis bantied around, although I did not see the program.
The quote provided by Boogieman pretty much supports my initial reactions, however. We can't focus too much on "Eve" as an individual. Just for one thing: where did her sons-in-law come from? They had mothers, too, who were presumably different women than "Eve," but because their children were male, the mtDNA was not passed down. That does not make them any less our ancestors than "Eve." Assuming an origin from a population seems more reasonable.
____________
 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
|
|
Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
|
|
posted October 17, 2003 10:06 PM |
|
|
Yes Khaelo. BoogieMan's quote would suggest that the sons in law and daughters in law would have come from the same tribe. Then of course there's her own mate.
At the last, the premise still remains --
Mitakuye Oyasin!!!
(Which is Lakota for: We are all related!!!)
____________
I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
|
|
delfontes
Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
|
|
posted October 17, 2003 10:15 PM |
|
|
The timeframe was about 150,000 years ago. The quote I was looking for was the one boogieman posted, it still is quite impressive to be able to link the world to a civilization of 10,000 people  .
It might even help that thread wanting peace on earth  .
The "Small" town I grew up in had more people than that, and you'd know someone every time you went shopping, hehe.
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted October 24, 2003 11:42 AM |
|
|
I find research like this laughable. It basically makes up the evidence between random facts. For example, it is possible that another human remains will be found in america, ten thousand years younger than the African woman, with the same mDNA, then what? They link all humanity to the oldest skeleton they could find. What about the ones they didn't find?
____________
You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
|
|
Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
|
posted October 24, 2003 11:57 AM |
|
|
my first ancestor...
who else but Lilith?
____________
You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
|
|
Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
|
|
posted October 24, 2003 10:49 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I find research like this laughable. It basically makes up the evidence between random facts. For example, it is possible that another human remains will be found in america, ten thousand years younger than the African woman, with the same mDNA, then what? They link all humanity to the oldest skeleton they could find. What about the ones they didn't find?
If the researchers were basing their claims on an archeological find, yes, the claim would be ridiculous. Especially given that savannahs do not make many fossils, the vast majority of our ancestors' remains have long ago dissolved to dust. However, skeletons aren't the basis of the study.
From the program website:
Quote:
. Based on analysis of thousands of DNA samples from people worldwide, Richards' research reveals a detailed map of the human family tree and its various branches.
Their evidence is the genes of people living today. Here is where they try to explain the technical genetic stuff to us poor mortals.  There are a lot of assumptions being made, but fortunately the whims of fossilization in arid climates are not among them.
____________
Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
|
|
Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
|
|
posted October 25, 2003 12:48 AM |
|
|
This is very true (they could find an older skeleton) there is alot of places we didnt dig, including the beach locations. If you think about it most foragers would be near water, and over 4 billion years the plates shifted.
thanks, for a new door into seeing the theoretical possibility.
____________
What are you up to
|
|
Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
|
|
posted October 25, 2003 12:51 AM |
|
|
The oldest skeleton might as darn well be underwater. But who would look there?
____________
Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
|
|
delfontes
Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
|
|
posted October 25, 2003 12:55 AM |
|
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
posted October 29, 2003 12:19 AM |
|
|
LOL!
____________
You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
|
|
terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
|
|
posted November 06, 2003 02:15 PM |
|
|
Ah, the 'ancient' weakness of aerchiology...
____________
"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
|
|
Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
|
|
posted November 06, 2003 02:30 PM |
|
|
Well, the first ever skeleton should be somewhere underwater since the first fish lived long before the first land creatures.
____________
Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
|
|
Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
|
|
posted November 06, 2003 04:53 PM |
|
|
1) The movement of the plates has not been *too* drastic since the advent of the Homo genus. We've only been around for 2-4 million years or so. Unless humans developed on the Bering Strait or somewhere like that, it seems unlikely that the oldest humanoid fossils would be underwater.
2) On the other hand, they find fish fossils in the oddest places because of changing ocean levels. Among other things, North America used to have an inland sea (in the Cretaceous, if I recall correctly?). So, the "oldest" *fish* fossil could be in someone's backyard.
3) The evidence in the program that started the thread is not based on archeology or paleontology -- it's based in genetics. So fossils are moot. Why are we still discussing them?
4) But, as long as fossils are still under discussion, this letter is my all-time favorite fossil joke. 
____________
Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
|
|
Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
|
|
posted November 07, 2003 03:35 AM |
|
|
Well, personaly I dont know what these guys are thinking and how they got their awnsers but this is in text books.
This is 250 Million years ago:
This is 135 mil years ago:
And today:
Do they think/know for sure, that these "islands" (continents) are like ships? How fortunate for us humans, that there are land mounds that move like this. I guess the world looked like an eyeball 1 day. (The land was pupil and the water was like the white in our eyes. )
Funny, I dont think they have an explanation why Africa is like a beach, and everything else that surounded it is now like soil and stuff.
____________
What are you up to
|
|
terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
|
|
posted November 07, 2003 12:55 PM |
|
|
"Interesting" fact:
The reason scandinavia and greenland are moving opposite ways, is that they collided some 40 million years ago or so.
Interesting?
____________
"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
|
|
|
|
