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| Thread: S P A M |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted November 16, 2003 07:32 PM |
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S P A M
First of all, this thread is meant to just bring up several views about the spam here. Its not supposed to make members that may fit into a spamming category feel bad.
The reason im raising this topic is because i believe that we do have a spam problem here. And the reason i post it in this forum is because i want this to be seriously discussed preferbly by members of the different categories.
So if you feel you have the need to reply something like "spam is something you can eat" on the questions i will arise please make that post in Volcanic Wastelands instead.
Why im bringing this up now is because Spamming is more and more becomming a "cool thing" here. I dont like that.
IMO there are several different questions when it comes to spam.
What is spam?
Why do some members have a tendency to spam?
Is spam always a bad thing?
Can spam be contributive in any way to this message board?
How can the spam be dealt with?
This is how i feel:
What is spam?
- Spam IMO is a post which solely purpose is to increase your post count. Then i understand that different people will have different views on the purpose of a post. We all have different humour and a one comment post, or a one word post for that matter could be something hilarious to one member while another one sees it at just..spam.
So there can be many different opinions about just one post. But IMO thats still not what matters, as said above i believe that its the purpose of the post from its author that matters. Though i understand that it is the moderators who will have the final say in what spam is or not, and thats problably the best thing aswell so there is a incommon limit.
Why do some members have a tendency to spam?
- IMO thats easy. They want yellow stars. It might be a harsh thing to say but IMO its the harsh truth. If there were no "rewards" for nr of posts i really doubt that we would have as many members with spamming tendencys here as we do today.
Is spam always a bad thing?
- IMO it is almost always. My problem doesnt lie within the fact that some members gets more yellow stars. Its the way they get them.
As things are today tavern is the most popular place to spam. There the posts doesnt get removed within a week and you wont be accused of anything since its an off topic forum.
And what it unfortunately does is that it "pushes" the more contributive threads back the pages. Threads that do have potential. I can only speak for myself, but when i tavern its really rare that i even check page2. Usually i enter tavern, give it a fast look and basically see no threads that really interests me and i change to another forum. Which is kinda sad concidering how many good quality threads there are in tavern which never really gets a fair chance to continue because of this.
Can spam be contributive in any way to this message board?
- Not to the community as a whole i think, more to make some members feel more established here. As ive understood some new members feels bad about having less yellow stars than the rest and wants to catch up fast. As a way to feel more "at home" here.
How can the spam be dealt with?
- A couple of months ago lith made a poll about making a new section for word games and such. I believe thats still the best idea, what i also though when the thread was made was that posts there shouldnt count as much (0,5 instead of usual 1). There i have changed my mind though. Because that wont fix anything as i see it now, it will only lead to that more spam stays outside that forum because there it counts double.
Make a word game forum, or spam forum if you wanna call it that. Give the posters normal credit for their posts, make that forum a place for some members to establish themselves. That way they could get more yellow stars if they are so eager to get them and it wont affect the rest of us in for example tavern forum. IMO thats a double win.
But i would also like spam outside that forum to be harsher treated. I think its unfair that one post consisting several bad words will get a penalty while a member making 20-30 posts which has no purpose at all "walks free". At a time like that i think quantity should matter and you "earn" your penalty by making all these posts.
Because if you now get one forum dedicated to spam, the rest should be able to stay "spam free".
These are my views on this IMO spam problem, would be interesting to see some of yours aswell.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted November 16, 2003 09:44 PM |
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You speak of spam as if its an infestation
What is spam??
Spam is usualy offtopic. If a thread shifts topic, then spam is off topic from anytopic in the thread. It may have some relevence like "They should put a sign herethat says no n00bs"
Spam is sometimes a TOS (or whatever)
Spam is usualy not serious material.
Spam is more than just a post looking for a star.
There are more definitions but I wont go there.
Why do some members have a tendency to spam?
Spam used to be cool but for some reason it is not cool anymore. I think it has somthing to do with the people who have spam in their sigs, and talk about it frequently.
Is spam always a bad thing?
No.
Infact I like spam from the old days. I dont know what happend to the old timer/Woock age. I know OT is to awsome or something :/
Can spam be contributive in any way to this message board?
Yes!! When its not used so lightly, and when people dont lay it on so thick. A humourous comment on topic or offtopic is usualy good.
How can the spam be dealt with?
Get rid of the bad kinds.
I dont want to be mean or point people out but some people like to get yellow stars. They like them, and they even say so when they spam. I cant say its wrong to like a yellow star or high post count but I can say posts that have nothing to do with the thread, and posts that are just posted for +1 post, these days are starting to not be the same as it was in the first good portion of HCs lifespan.
I am totaly down with the humor.
I dont like spammers looking for a place to criticize, or just stick out there tounge 
btw Hamsis cool where I see, why arent all the tossers cool? Theres a time and place for alot of things. Tossing is aggitating spam unless its in a right place.
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What are you up to
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted November 16, 2003 10:01 PM |
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Edited By: Khaelo on 16 Nov 2003
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agreed!
The spam problem has driven me to the edge of leaving HC permanently. It trivializes the forum, clogs up serious discussions, and pushes valuable threads to back pages where few people will find them. There are still enough good discussions to balance the frustration spam causes, but if the spam problem gets much worse, I for one won't be willing to put up with it anymore and will simply find other forums. Chances are, I'm not the only one capable of being driven away by this nonsense.
Quote:
What is spam?
Posts that contribute nothing to the thread, and don't even attempt to contribute to the thread. This includes non sequiters, posts that comment on some trivial and irrelevant aspect of a previous post, and posts that beat a dead horse by bumping old, mediocre threads back to the front pages. There are other kinds of spam, but they're not so problematic. HC doesn't see that much advertising spam, and that which does show up tends to be deleted. Trolls also get curtailed in short order. I do not include light-weight chatter or interesting thread hijackings as "spam." The chatter is fun and helps people get to know one another better (IMO, one of the purposes of the Tavern), and hijackings can make a thread more interesting (see Attack Iraq?). Nor do I see the word games as "spam." What I call SPAM and find most disturbing here is the influx of "post snows" -- those who post solely for post count.
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Why do some members have a tendency to spam?
Agreed with Stiven: yellow stars. For some reason, some people have assigned status to yellow stars and try to collect as many as they can. "Spammer" has also become a title of pride. Don't misunderstand me: I don't think every post need be tHe_HyDrA quality. But IMO, every post should show some thought and effort. Spammers don't even try.
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Is spam always a bad thing?
Yes. Posting merely for yellow stars is selfish and inconsiderate and does not help the community at all.
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Can spam be contributive in any way to this message board?
It makes the board look more active, but other than that, it's shallow and harmful.
Quote:
How can the spam be dealt with?
Delete it.
From the FAQ:
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Spam, gibberish, lamers & flaming will not be tolerated...We encourage you to make your posts interesting so that everyone can have a good time reading them.
See also the floodprotect. Posting for yellow stars is supposed to be discouraged here. IMO, if spammers find their precious posts consistently removed, they will learn to include some substance and become contributing members of the community. Stiven is right on the mark with noting that spam has become "cool." I believe that the mods need to make spam-deletion a priority in order to thwart this trend.
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 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 16, 2003 10:46 PM |
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My view is very similar to Khaelo's.
Actually, I believe Moderators can be more active here. I've had a few infestiations of Spam in my Forum, and the choice I give to the perpetrator was: "Do you want to delete the posts yourself, or do you want a grumpy Moderator".
All the members who have gotten this warning have also complied and deleted the posts themselves.
As Khaelo said: deleting the posts is the only thing that works and also the thing which hurts the "spammer" where it counts.
When I go through one of my "own" forums I generally delete all posts that add nothing to discussion, as long as I can delete the post without deleting it breaks the discussion. BUT I won't EDIT any other member's post to get rid of spam. (And this is actually a problem fairly often.)
I haven't gone through the Tribunal for a while, but in the Altar about 15-20% of the threads gets deleted when I do the clean-up, and in an additional 10-20% of the threads, individual posts are removed. (Probably more should be affected, but it's actually difficult to keep track of everything you sould be doing when cleaning up, so some of them are just missed.)
Still, it's impossible for the moderator to keep track of all spam which ought to be taken away.
Myself, I'd be happy to welcome member opinions on threads or posts that ought to be deleted because they are spam-infested. You can for instance use the "Newcomers Please Read" thread for this purpose (in Tribunal and Altar).
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted November 16, 2003 11:37 PM |
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Quote:
All the members who have gotten this warning have also complied and deleted the posts themselves.
It's true. Once Djive told me to delete like 20 of my posts and I deleted them.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted November 17, 2003 04:30 AM |
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There should be some way of keeping track of how many spam posts a user makes.
After like 20 spam posts over a certain period of time, the user is given a warning. If the user continues to spam and makes 20 posts again over the same period of time, the user receives a -QP.
Then the process starts over again. The user will get a warning then a penalty.
My opinions on spam:
1) Spam is clearly a problem.
2) It is against the FAQ/Rules and isn't enforced strictly enough.
3) Only the punishment of penalties will end this problem. Telling the user to delete his or her posts will not prevent people from doing this. It may stop one user who is spamming severely, but it will not discourage other users from doing it in the future, because there is no example set for this.
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Go Red Sox!
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted November 18, 2003 04:48 AM |
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Maybe we need more mods to supervise this situation.
I volunteer for any Mod positions open!
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted November 18, 2003 05:21 AM |
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No offense, but I somehow don't think that Val is going to hire you (a person who has recently been spamming excessively) to take care of the the problem of spamming.
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Go Red Sox!
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted November 18, 2003 05:27 AM |
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But you need a Spammer to take out the Spammers. I know how they think! Fight Fire with Fire!
Actually I haven't been Spamming very much lately.
I would make an Awesome Mod. I think we need more opinions on this issue.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted November 18, 2003 03:27 PM |
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I know how they think as well. In fact, I used make as many useless threads as Soccerfeva, but I have clearly made a long-term change.
Being good for a couple weeks doesn't count. At least it doesn't count when you're applying for mod. If you do want to be a mod then you must show a long-term improvement.
I hope you continue this course of responsibility. This is certainly a step in the right direction.
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Go Red Sox!
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted November 18, 2003 06:32 PM |
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I haven't read any of the replies before posting, so I may be reinventing the wheel..
Quote:
What is spam?
- Spam IMO is a post which solely purpose is to increase your post count.
I disagree. This way you throw both spamming and flooding into one bag. The way you define it, someone can post stuff like "gpewgvft pi4wg58432gv b5io4w65 o9843hbg" all the time, and you'll call it spam. That is flooding, which can be defined as posting numerous meaningless posts. Spamming, on the other hand, is posting post that bring nothing new to the conversation and are often (but not always) offtopic.
Quote:
Why do some members have a tendency to spam?
- IMO thats easy. They want yellow stars. It might be a harsh thing to say but IMO its the harsh truth. If there were no "rewards" for nr of posts i really doubt that we would have as many members with spamming tendencys here as we do today.
I am sorry to say that, but I think I might be part of the problem. A while ago there was less spam I think. Now I am known as the God of Spam. Some people may feel inspired and want to be better than me (while I don't spam an awful lot anymore I think), which is even more of a motivation to spam than the yellow stars.
Quote:
Is spam always a bad thing?
- IMO it is almost always. My problem doesnt lie within the fact that some members gets more yellow stars. Its the way they get them.
I think spam is not such a bad thing as long as there isn't too much of it. Knowing where you can't spam and where you can spam a bit is an important skill, too.
And what it unfortunately does is that it "pushes" the more contributive threads back the pages.
But they are resurrected by Dingo sooner or later, after which the subject is continued (example: Forge Town by Lord Paul)
Can spam be contributive in any way to this message board?
- Not to the community as a whole i think, more to make some members feel more established here. As ive understood some new members feels bad about having less yellow stars than the rest and wants to catch up fast. As a way to feel more "at home" here.
Maybe so, but I think that spam indeed can be contributive, but not when there's too much of it. As I already mentioned, spam can cause serious discussions on bizarre subjects, which is not a bad thing at all.
Quote:
How can the spam be dealt with?
- A couple of months ago lith made a poll about making a new section for word games and such. I believe thats still the best idea, what i also though when the thread was made was that posts there shouldnt count as much (0,5 instead of usual 1). There i have changed my mind though. Because that wont fix anything as i see it now, it will only lead to that more spam stays outside that forum because there it counts double.
Make a word game forum, or spam forum if you wanna call it that. Give the posters normal credit for their posts, make that forum a place for some members to establish themselves. That way they could get more yellow stars if they are so eager to get them and it wont affect the rest of us in for example tavern forum. IMO thats a double win.
But i would also like spam outside that forum to be harsher treated. I think its unfair that one post consisting several bad words will get a penalty while a member making 20-30 posts which has no purpose at all "walks free". At a time like that i think quantity should matter and you "earn" your penalty by making all these posts.
Because if you now get one forum dedicated to spam, the rest should be able to stay "spam free".
Agreed.
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Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted November 19, 2003 01:30 AM |
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Dingo as a mod ???
Bwahahahahahahaha !!!!!
Spam is not very good, but it can be fun, just sometimes.... to remind, that you're still here....
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted November 19, 2003 01:34 AM |
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If I become a Mod first thing I would do is delete ALOT of Mvassives Posts. His SPAM is actually makes HC a worst place. Thats Bad.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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Hexa
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted November 19, 2003 10:34 AM |
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OK I haven't read all the posts in here yet but Stiven asked me to voice my opinion 1- 10 on SPAM here.
1. SPAM sucks.
2. We (almost) all do it.
3. Some do it more then others.
4. Sometimes those members suck more then others.
5. Sometimes those members keep HC going.
6. Mods have limited options to cut back on SPAM.
7. In some forums it is a whole lot easier to seperate SPAM from non-SPAM. For instance in The Library it is easy. While in the Tavern is can be hard.
8. I myself am often utterly annoyed at the SPAM behavior of some members. For instance Woock and Dingo.
9. The last few weeks I myself haven been deleting loads of SPAM from threads. As some may have noticed at there post count.
10. SPAM will always stay a problem in some parts of HC. Only things mods can do is clean up after members and warn a bit here and there. Anything mods do more will turn HC in to a police-state!@
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If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted November 19, 2003 11:57 AM |
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First i would like to thank you that you have taken your time to make some well thought posts here.
As hexa says i have IM him and some other members asking for their opinions aswell on this IMO spamming problem.
So i will wait until weekend for new posts then i will comment things here more further.
But i have to say that i thought khaelos input was well written. Myself ive had ideas similiar aswell but as hexa pointed out spam can be really hard to define sometimes, especially in an off topic forum like tavern.
I wouldnt mind seeing all spam deleted though as you khaelo suggest. IMO thats a great idea if it can be implemented and get all mods support.
I also saw that this thread has approx. 10 times more views than posts. So even if i havent asked you through IM to make your voice heard please post anyway because your opinion matters as much as anyone elses here.
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pietjebell
Promising
Known Hero
positive
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posted November 19, 2003 01:09 PM |
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totaly agree!
Spammin' makes threats more hard to read, coz of obvious reasons!
But is this post spam now?
:-S
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BOOT: what U give yur computer to start
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soccerfeva
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
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posted November 19, 2003 02:38 PM |
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Now this is spam.
What that needs more than 10 minutes to read through and understand,is spam. Because few members really read through everything written. The more that is written and posted,the less likely you'll get a member to read because it is time consuming. And for people like me, who have no time to go through everything,would not find interest in such a topic.
Sir Stiven did ask me to express my views here on spam,but all I got was thousands of words to go through and the cybercafe clock ticking. Which in turn transfers to cold hard cash.
If I had more time and a personal PC, I'll go through these things.
Spam is not defined. It is formed entirely on opinions.
Your personal opinion of spam might be differnet from others. If to me,this thread is spam because it is too long or too hard to understand,than this thread is spam.
Well,it's still ticking...
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LichKing
Honorable
Known Hero
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posted November 20, 2003 04:40 AM |
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Overkill
HC used to be a fun place to visit.
Sure, we are all guilty of spamming here or there. The vast majority of us keep it sporadic and do it in the spirit of fun.
Thing is, when I visit a forum and the list of names under Last Date Posted is 70% THE SAME PERSON and 99% of those posts are a single, meaningless sentence aimed toward boosting post count I don't even bother. I see it as the perfect opportunity to utilize my free time browsing other sites.
Pity the quality of reading material has fallen so much here .............
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SOUND THE CHARGE!! INTO GLORY RIDE!!!
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted November 20, 2003 05:11 AM |
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Spam is out of control here, I don't like it. Not to pick on Dingo, but he joined about 8 months after me and he has about 500 more posts, I've seen some of his stuff, and I think the most thought that he put into his posts happened in the "Legalize It" thread. Having the god of spam and things like that in your signature and status is annoying too, it just seems like they are saying that spam is cool, like you said. We all spam, it's true. But we need to cut down.
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted November 20, 2003 05:39 AM |
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First of all I am not the God of SPAM, I am the Demi-God of Dark SPAM.
Second of all, not all of my posts are SPAM, I have 2 Qps.
Third of all I have seen SPAM here, that is much worst than mine.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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