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| Thread: Heroes V: Preliminary Hypothesis |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted January 18, 2004 05:21 AM |
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Older Hypotheses
While this news isn’t really new, it is still useful, and has as much relevance now as it did when it was released. Hopefully some more answers can be divulged.
Underground : most probably.
If you do recall, Jon Van Caneghem and all but dismissed the underground layer for NWC Heroes V. The reason being it was meant to be a mere treasure cache, and the players and fan-made maps converted it into a whole underworld instead of one small area. It would be interesting to hear the reason Ubisoft thought it was a good inclusion. I myself am please with this decision, the underground level did add more depth, and allowed you to expand on the map if you felt the need to. That added flexibility that the underground provides is my major reason why I agree with Ubisoft’s decision.
RPG / strategy balance : I think HoMM is mostly a strategy game.
Certainly an intriguing comment. This is the same view that JVC had prior to developing Heroes V. This lead to the (most probable) exclusion of heroes from combat because of their ‘RPGish’ nature. Having the senior producer agree on this would point to the same result. Although, from recent evidence, it seems as though Fabrice will want to seek a compromise between heroes being on or off the combat map. This subject is still very much undecided but I am sure it will be different to what we’ve seen in other versions.
Music : the music will be like in Heroes 5.
He obviously means Heroes IV. This is also quite exciting and very pleasing news (for me, anyway). While Fabrice doesn’t mention the old Heroes recording team of Rob King, Paul Romero, and Steve Baca, there would be a fair chance that these three will once again head the music department of the game. Though Fabrice may just mean the music will be in the same style as Heroes IV, and that someone else would try to emulate the work done by these three, it would make more sense the former way. At least we know it will be similar.
Djive
“One comment on the creature sizes.
It's a realisitic aspect, and the cost of implementing it could ruin game interface”
Yes, I agree here. Though we do prefer the game to more realistic, I think it would be better not to take it to life-like extremes. So 1 black dragon would be smaller than 500 dwarves. I would like the creature sizes to stay relatively similar to those used in all the previous versions of the game. As you say, it would complicate the perspective of the battlefield, and make it quite difficult, especially for larger battles.
“Titans are perhaps 2-3 times bigger than halflings, and any greater diversity in size is in my opinion unwanted.”
True statement. It gives you the impression that a Titan is much larger than a Halfling, and I believe that it what the developers set out to do. Although, there were a few problems, the size of the centaur, for example. The creature sizes in Heroes IV were not realistic. The Titan was small, smaller than a nightmare, for example, and the only creature that really towered above the rest was the megadragon. Hopefully Ubisoft will revert to Heroes II sizes, they were perfect.
“Overall, IMO a small variety in size is healthy to the game. Too much of it and it becomes a liability instead.”
I wouldn’t want to compromise the playability of combat just for some more realistic size differentials. Creature sizes are acceptable as they are.
RedSoxFan3
“Somehow I think that highly variable creature size could be implemented. With the regular 3D graphics you could zoom out to see the large titans and zoom in to see the intricate details of the halfling.”
That would work from a visual aspect, but would it actually work in motion? Yes, the problem of pixilation and screen domination has been solved, but is that all the problems that lie here? What about when the creatures attack each other? 50 titans versus 1 halfling? What would the animation be? The titan couldn’t just punch the air, and the Halflings shouldn’t really stab the titans’ foot. It would be extremely difficult to create animations for every size, for every creature. It would take years just to do that. Good luck solving that problem. 
JimMorrison
“1. we make it "online only" to prevent illegal copying
2. the Heroes name will only be used to attract a big crowd”
I doubt those two points are true. It won’t be online only, Fabrice merely said he wants to make online the centre of multiplayer games. Obviously a great deal of effort would be placed into single player, too.
While it is apparent that the name ‘Heroes’ can attract a big crowd, I doubt that will be its only function. The Base elements of the game are staying true to NWC methods.
“He uses way to much "if's" and "maybe's".”
Actually, I haven’t read anything where MuadDib says ‘if’ or ‘maybe. What have you been reading to base this from?
DonGio
“Hi, Hydra and the rest of you.”
Hey DonGiovanni (hehe) how have you been? It is good to see you post again!
“Well, as much as I hate to say so, I do not necessarily think that this "can only mean good news for online Heroes fanatics." It could, I think, just as well mean that nothing has been decided, and so things could really turn out in an infinite number of ways.”
Yes, you’re right, actually. The fact that Ubisoft plan to change the online capabilities of Heroes doesn’t necessarily mean good news. But, tied in with the other information he has written, it looks like this is so. Fabrice says he wants to make online the focus of multiplayer games, so it is evident that they will put a lot of effort into making that area of the game function well. Additionally, the Heroes IV online wasn’t exactly the best.
“you seem to be drawing too many conclusions from vague or at best suggestive quotes. I think it's unrealistic to believe that we can deduce anything at all”
True, the comments are quite vague. However, that is the beauty of speculation, it is just that. Simple conjectures. They aren’t automatically correct because I thought they would be. I made many mistakes in trying to guess what was in Heroes IV, but I was also right on many details, too. Some of these hypotheses are wrong, and some may turn out to be correct. It really has no bearing on what actually occurs, it is just what I believe will happen. It isn’t unrealistic to believe that we can achieve anything from this process. I proved that some things we thought of two years ago did actually happen in Heroes IV. It is better if we have many people giving their opinions than just a few.
“I haven't liked much of what concept art we have been shown so far, but we're still at a preliminary stage, and with some of these sketches it's even hard to imagine what they would look like, modeled and rendered.”
Correct again. I agree here, too. The only sketches that I have thought fondly of are the ‘bridge city’, archer and the cavalier. The castles don’t look like authentic Heroes products. The angel is not good at all , especially wielding a massive sword, and its appearance is more ornamental than pugilistic. But, as you say, it is near impossible to make comments when these pictures aren’t in-game screenshots.
“I really don't care for anime or the dominating "adult" comic book style, where everything is ridiculously malproportioned and unrealistic.”
Exactly. This style is more modern and almost Final Fantasy style, as you also say. I agree that this style has no place in the world of Heroes, and I hope Ubisoft take steps to make sure the old style returns.
“Like Hydra, I loved the way Heroes II looked. I think they need to find the person(s) who did the artwork for that and hire him/her/them. I liked the color scheme as well, it found the balance between gory and dreary, I think.”
Precisely. According to the Heroes II manual, the people who conducted the artwork are:
Art Director: Julia Ulano
Artists: Julie Bateman, Rebecca Christel, Shelly Garcia, Sam Hasson, Louis Henderson, Tracy Iwata, Steve Jasper, April Lee, Lieu Pham, Phelan Sykes, Steve Wasaff, and Scott White.
The perfect Heroes of Might and Magic art team. 
“this quote merely states that the developers have thought (I presume it's not though) about dragons.”
Yes, you’re right, but it does point to the direction that Dragons will probably be in the game. I know the fans want this to happen, and the exclamation mark at the end confirms his affirmation that he is doing what the fans want. It would be very strange for dragons to be left out.
“true-to-scale size variation would be disastrous. I mean, come on, some of these creatures were demi-gods, and could crush a legion of halflings under their left foot.”
Yes, it is all in the realms of fantasy. It is, in my opinion, the prefect balance between realism and fantasy, because you don’t want either to really dominate when it comes to battles. I agree that 1 titan would mutilate even 300 halflings in fantastical settings, but in Heroes, it is for the sake of strategy that the cannot.
“Keep on speculating, by all means”
Don’t worry, we will. (Well, I will)
doomnezeu
“From what I see in Hydra's posts (btw, thanks for letting us know about what's happening in Ubisoft's courtyard), there are many affirmations, yet none to give us a real clue about the game.”
That is OK. That’s my obligation here. You’re right that Fabrice Cambounet hasn’t been the most specific in answering these questions, but that is quite understandable, because I don’t think he would like to reveal too much information so early before the game is even announced.
“If they whant so badly to orient heroes 5 towards online play, therefore forgetting about singleplay, I call that a bad thing.”
I think you are forgetting that he wants to make it the centre of online play, not single play, so the single player mode is still probably as diverse as it ever was.
“Hotseat mode: I'm certain we will probably implement it??? Jesus, man, that is the most weirdest phrase i've heard this far.”
I agree. It is quite contradictory, but English isn’t his natural tongue. I would say he meant ‘I’m certain we will implement it.’
“I just hope that the gameplay remains good....”
That is my primary wish, too. Having 3D graphics is a bonus, but if the game doesn’t play right, then the project is in vain.
B0rusk
“He repplied to other questions, but ignored the one about Linux.
That leads me to believe that they simply don't care about other platforms.... and presumably aim for the masses.”
That would generally be the mindset of any game developer. It was either that, or he didn’t think the question was important enough to warrant an answer. Or, it could have been that he just didn’t know, or even that he didn’t want to say why. It could have even been that he didn’t read the question. There are multitudinous possibilities, I think you could be focusing on the most negative one.
I am hoping for some more information from Fabrice, but, until then, continue speculating!
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"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”
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DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
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posted January 18, 2004 11:18 PM |
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Quote:
Music : the music will be like in Heroes 5.
He obviously means Heroes IV.
I think he means that he doesn't know what the music will be like yet, so he says this, which will inevitably be true but is also totally devoid of meaning at this time. The music will, in the end, be like in Heroes V, since that is what it is.
Hydra:
I am, and have been, good. When I don't post here it's usually because I have more worthwhile thins to do .
Greetings
DonGio
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There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
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Ribannah
Hired Hero
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posted January 19, 2004 01:14 AM |
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Quote:
To me it looks way to much like:
1. we make it "online only" to prevent illegal copying
2. the Heroes name will only be used to attract a big crowd
He uses way to much "if's" and "maybe's".
Maybe you also will have to pay a fee monthly to play Heroes 5.
This does not look good at all.
Actually the 'if's and 'maybe's are indications that UbiSoft's intention is to make the best of this game, and that this will not be a one-time exploitation of the title.
Take into account that it's still very early days. It would not be a sign of wisdom if everything had already been decided.
Further remember that UbiSoft also acquired the rights to the Might and Magic roleplaying game, and will have plans for that, too. In fact they had been trying to get the HoMM/M&M branch years before 3DO had to file for Chapter 11.
I find it very encouraging that Fabrice is willing to communicate so actively with the fans. It's been a while since I've seen that before (Brian Reynolds when he was working on Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri)!
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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire.
[url=http://www.castlegobs.nl/]Castle Gobs[/url]
Project Lead of the Might and Magic Tribute game
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted January 23, 2004 08:23 AM |
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Newest Round of Answers
Fabrice Cambounet answered around 9 questions on the Round Table, and 2 questions on the Heroes Community. Among them were a few interesting replies, which I will try and shed some light on. These answers were posted by Fabrice on the 20th of January in the respective forums, it was the second news of the year. If you would like to see all news, go here:
Heroes V Overview
Camera : this will be tuned during testing, zooming is clearly intended.
Zooming is clearly intended. That is quite a large piece of information. We had this to an extent in the Heroes Series, with the ‘View World’ option, but I feel this is going to be much more comprehensive, and also apply not only to the adventure map, but also to the combat map, which would have many benefits. Combine this with rotational features, one can view almost every aspect of the map. This brings forth the question, with zooming in place, maybe the castles can actually be gigantic? For when the hero travels, the player can zoom in, and when encountering mountains, the player can zoom out more to see the whole view. It is an interesting concept.
Grail : considered.
This is a piece of good news, in my opinion. I was always fond of the grail, or ‘ultimate artifact’ as it was referred to in Heroes II. It augments the game’s search and discover aspect which I find intriguing. Though there is no confirmation that the grail will indeed return, it would be in the best interest of the game that it did. Obelisks would become superfluous if it didn’t, and all the great ideas correlated with the town’s grail structure would have (effectively) been in vain. Despite not being the most vital of elements in the game, it certainly can’t hinder it.
Weather : we could do it for the sake of impressive settings, at least. That's a good idea.
The weather idea has been suggested a multitude of times here at the Heroes Community, and is finally achieving some sort of recognition. Though the plan at HC was to have the weather affect many different elements of the adventure map, we may see it implemented only for a decorative purpose. It could be taken further if the ideas concerning the weather are praiseworthy enough.
Creatures start on battlefield : as this will be 3D, it will be chosen by the player mostly.
I’m not exactly sure what Fabrice is relating this to, but I believe it could be concerning the before-battle placement of the creatures on the battlefield. I was expecting some more depth in Heroes IV, but this was not to be. Technically, I think this can be one of the most important steps you take to winning a battle. Often, I have to manually manoeuvre my creatures during battle, but if there were more formation options, I wouldn’t have this problem. I also think that there should also be different levels of manoeuvrability, for example, more options become available after the hero advances in the tactics skill.
Diplomacy : not a major key in the game, but creating alliances during a mission will certainly be possible.
I don’t believe this was possible to such an extent in any of the previous instalments of the game. I think this would certainly be a welcome change, especially in campaigns and multiplayer games, where friends may be able to achieve more together than just ‘trading resources’. The possibilities with diplomacy are great, and the alliances factor is certainly intriguing.
Graphics : I think the sketches sent so far give a good view of the style we are aiming for.
For me, this isn’t really positive news. While I think the creature sketches have been on target (bar the angel) the adventure map structures look much too modern for a Heroes game, and maybe in the wrong era. Look at Heroes I, the Warlock town had a cross on its front turret. This gives the impression that the game is set in the medieval times, and the Wizard town wasn’t even invented back then. Also, there were hardly any traces of ‘steel’ or metal in the game. The scene is very different nowadays, as the game has most certainly modernised. It is very unfortunate really; I feel the classic art style of Heroes is being lost…
Futuristic : never heard these rumors.
This is a bit of good news. I think this pretty much rules out the resurgence of a ‘Forge-like’ town, which in my opinion ruins the setting of the game. I would like the Heroes series to stay in the same period in history that it always has, but I think this will probably change slightly.
DonGio
“I think he means that he doesn't know what the music will be like yet, so he says this, which will inevitably be true but is also totally devoid of meaning at this time. The music will, in the end, be like in Heroes V, since that is what it is.”
I disagree with this statement. I think he just made an honest mistake there, I may have to ask him. Though I agree with your explanation as to why, I don’t understand the motive behind him saying it will be like Heroes V. If it was going to be totally new, the he would have said it is going to be new. Actually, the music won’t be like Heroes V in the end. It will be Heroes V music, not share a likeness to it.
I think that you and I agree on this one, though, that Heroes II possessed the greatest music above all the other incarnations of the game. To quote you,
“The grass theme is very melancholic”
and for that reason, I believe it is the best. The grass theme epitomised Heroes II music. The other stand-out sections were the battle themes. They too were composed brilliantly. The music also related to the terrain and towns very well, even the ‘end turn’ music was very interesting and induced thinking.
“I am, and have been, good. When I don't post here it's usually because I have more worthwhile thins to do ”
That’s good to hear. More worthwhile things to do than ponder and speculate and read information about Heroes V? That’s highly improbable, my friend. No, I am sure that you do have more important things to attend. Per esempio, aspettiamo per Milan contro Juventus, e poi ci vediamo… Aspetto e spera… Ciao!
Ribannah
“Actually the 'if's and 'maybe's are indications that UbiSoft's intention is to make the best of this game, and that this will not be a one-time exploitation of the title.”
Yes, I agree. I also find it promising that they’re not taking too many risks, seeing as they aren’t changing the fundamental aspects of the game. At the same time, they are still experimenting with new ideas, and such interaction with the fan communities suggests this also. Even in these early stages, there are promising signs here that Ubisoft will do its best to uphold the name of Heroes of Might and Magic.
“Further remember that UbiSoft also acquired the rights to the Might and Magic roleplaying game, and will have plans for that, too. In fact they had been trying to get the HoMM/M&M branch years before 3DO had to file for Chapter 11.”
Yes, just prior to Heroes III, I believe, Ubisoft offered around 13 million for the series. I was glad when Ubisoft were the highest bidders for the series, because I knew they had prior knowledge with the game, and also they developed the Warlords series, which is quite similar. It also provides a positive outcome, - that Ubisoft had plans for the series, and they are not oblivious to the Heroes traditions and other important elements that other companies may have ignored.
“I find it very encouraging that Fabrice is willing to communicate so actively with the fans.”
As do I. Such communication with so many fans can only mean that he will achieve the best result for the fans. Even though not every little idea can please everyone, I think the team will certainly make a good attempt.
The latest round of news and answers can be found in my Heroes V Overview thread, which is linked at the head of the page.
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"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”
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EmperorSly
Known Hero
Destroyer of Liver
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posted January 23, 2004 10:45 AM |
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Music : the music will be like in Heroes 5
it sure sounds like french humour, meant to say that the music will be unlike that in H1-4, that it will be new and original and that we shouldnt compare it to previous games. In any case -- nicely put, Muad'Dib.
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted April 19, 2004 11:52 AM |
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New Update - April 16th
After a long break without any new information from Ubisoft's leading designer, MuadDib, he has finally returned to provide some revealing information about the basics of the game, and a concept art drawing to accompany it. No news has been received from MuadDib for approximately three months, so this is a new revival for Heroes V - related discussion. Again, nothing specific was revealed, and if you hadn't the chance to visit my Heroes V Overview, the information(in the form of a post), and the picture, is posted below:
 .
Seeing as this is the first element of information, I shall discuss it first. What is intriguing about this concept art is its title. 'Evil Creature'. It reveals very little about the creature, to me, it looks like a Balrog, but others have perceived it as a devil. This creature igneous essence can suggest a few things. Firstly, that there could be an 'Inferno - like' town, as in Heroes III. Or, that there will be an amalgamation of Inferno and Necropolis, like Heroes IV. The latter model was not preferred by the majority of the Heroes Community.
An interesting note on the artistic side is the fire deriving from the hole in the creature's back. I wonder how that will turn out on the battlefield, it could be interesting to see how they implement that.
We thought about simultaneous movement on adventure map, it will be used to some extent. The objective being to have shorter and more interesting multiplayer games.
This certainly is an interesting point. There is no doubt that simultaneous turns changes the essence of the classical Turn-based system that Heroes I - IV has employed. This is quite a sizeable change, that will probably fulfil the first part of his reasoning, but maybe not the second part. Yes, the multiplayer games will be shorter, but I am not sure about 'more interesting'. If you ask me, I would prefer the traditional system, because that is how I like to play Heroes. If I wanted to play simultaneously, I would play a different game. The saving element of this comment is 'to some extent'. The amount of extent they use is vital to me, because, I, for one, do not approve of this change so far.
Some important info, heroes will probably not participate directly in combat. They'll be more involved than in Heroes 3 though.
Again, another highly discussion - inducing comment. While he says 'probably not', we can take this as a 'no'. Yes, the Heroes IV heroes in combat system was not perfectly balanced, but instead of removing them, why not try and improve the system so that it does work well? Polls late last year have shown that the majority of the Russian and English community want Heroes in Combat. I don't know the mentality behind this decision. An enticing prospect, however, is that they will be more involved than in Heroes III. How a successful consensus can be made between the Heroes III and Heroes IV systems is bewildering, because I had always thought of it as 'they're in, or they're out'. Perhaps they plan to have hero vs. hero duels in order to save themselves the trouble of balancing? Hopefully more about the Heroes role in (or out) of combat becomes available soon, because it would be interesting to see how it develops.
Regarding the former team, we are still discussing with JVC. I hope he'll join, soon enough to be involved in design decisions. Rob King is around and I see no reason why we wouldnt work with him.
The positive nature of Fabrice saying that he wants Jon Van Caneghem to be a part of the team is encouraging. I think that Ubisoft really need JVC on board to make some decisions that he knows could ruin the tradition of the series. I doubt he would be partaking fully in the developmental process, but probably advising what to keep in and out of the game so they don't ruin his creation. By the time he does start working on the project, it would probably already be to far into it to make any huge changes.(Considering he is going to accept). The news about Rob King is also very encouraging. Saying that he should be working on the music is excellent. Even if everything else changes, at least the music will still be in the same vibe as the rest of the series.
We'll have a combat grid. It will be quite close to Heroes 3.
Lastly, another piece of fascinating information. I think this can give as an insight into the battlefield perspective. We all know it is going to be 3D, that is no secret, but what perspective will the battlefield and grid be in? Heroes I - III were very similar to the classic strategy 'chess' orientation, and the grid was easy to read. Not so for Heroes IV, as the grid blocks were much too small, and often required the movement shadow to be turned on. The perspective of the battlefield itself will probably be changeable, due to the zoom and 3D features that the game boasts. This hopefully means that the isometric Heroes IV perspective can be chosen. The good news here is that the combat grid will probably be something readable, where one can track the opponents' paths.
Please, feel free to discuss anything about the new information here, for this is the place to do it.
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"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted April 19, 2004 07:18 PM |
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Quote:
An interesting note on the artistic side is the fire deriving from the hole in the creature's back. I wonder how that will turn out on the battlefield, it could be interesting to see how they implement that.
i don't think there's much need to worry about the fire, i would rather expect it to be an image of fire on the screen, not that the monitor will be burning at some spot.
i like it that shackles are included in the image of the creature. it's a nice symbolistic idea.
welcome to disneyland!
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Garpen
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 20, 2004 04:19 AM |
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AI
Great to have some news on the latest installment in the Heroes series. Having played them all, I was really looking forward to Heroes IV, and I liked a whole lot about that game, except the AI of the computer player. It must be the worst I've ever encountered. Completing a map wasnt about destroying the other cpu's, but simply destroying the monsters in the wilderness. This is one thing I really hope is being taken into heavy consideration over at the new developers. As I havent seen a single post about this, I figured I could bring it up, because a game without a good AI is eventually going to be bad whatever else it has going for it.
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generator
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 15, 2004 01:38 PM |
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when will appear god damit
i hopefully wait as others do but i would like 2 know
when it's the date 2 be launched???
tell me pls
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=6]Library Of Enlightenment[/url], to discuss Heroes 4, please go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=17]War Room Of Axeoth[/url], to discuss Heroes 5, go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=1]Temple Of Ashan[/url].
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