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| Thread: A storyline for Heroes5 by me | |
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted March 30, 2004 04:18 AM |
bonus applied. |
Edited By: Svarog on 3 Apr 2004
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Grave menace on the rise
A story about destiny, revolution, assassination, adultery, deceit and victory.
I noticed how few storylines there are around here written by members, and they are the one thing that Ubi now needs the most, I think. That’s why I put my ass in front of the monitor for a few days and made a story for homm5, full of intrigues, alliances, epic wars, falls and rises of famous heroes. I tried to create a decent historical beginning for our heroes in the new world, after the disappointing start we had with Heroes IV. It’s “a bit” long, but I hope if you find the patience to read it, you’ll like it. Like it or not, I’d appreciate your opinions about my storyline.
I had difficulties in the creation, because I had no idea what towns to use in the story. But, I figured the “usual” towns would still be present. Plus, I really expect the return of the Inferno, and I suppose they will add another town, but I‘m not sure which will it be. I call it “the Natives” in the story. If they don’t add the additional town however, “the Natives” would be a group of creatures and their campaign will be omitted. Ah, just read it, and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
The Return of the Kreegans
After the demons joined the Necromantic ranks, they lost their former strength and power. They became nothing, but obeying servants of the Necromancers. They were in a way, forced to do that, since they lacked the spiritual and magical guidance by a strong demon. Without a deity, a cause to fight for, a plane of fire to call home, they were unable to unite.
A young human, Demian, said to be the offspring of a human 16-year-old princess and an Incubus, cast away by society, has been studying the secrets of Black Magic and the old ways of the Kreegans. He is fascinated by them and one night in a dream he has a vision of a satanic deity. The deity, Azazel, represents itself to be a god in this world long forgotten by his followers and now he realizes the chance he has to gain followers once again from the ranks of the Kreegan demons. He sends Demian on a quest to gather a demonic army, free the demons form the Necros, summon some powerful demonic creatures from Axeoth deep in the Underworld, and finally to create a new kingdom of evil all of his own, with which later he plans to destroy all Good and the newcomers.
An ambitious task for Demian, to be the father of the new race, he willingly accepts the challenge and while accomplishing it, he discovers his own magical powers, inherited by his demonic father. He fights the Necros, frees the demons, summons terrifying creatures guided by Azazel, and finally uncovers an extremely powerful artifact (the Grail), needed to perform the Satanic ritual for turning a huge area of lush forest into Hell, and thus giving birth of the new race.
He then gathers an army and turns his eyes to the elven lands and the Necromancers, who seem to be focused on more important task south and do not pay much attention to the new King Demian. He expands the borders of his empire, ever guided by his patron, Azazel.
A Revolution of the Mind
The Kingdom of Great Arcan became one of the mightiest empires in the New World, ever since Queen Emilia came to its throne. However surrounded by a whole group of cunning advisors (Dukes, Viziers and Archmages), she slowly began to lose touch with reality. That and the handicap she had form her now legendary fight with Gavin Magnus, made her a true puppet in the hands of her “servants”. And Solmyr, wasn’t here to guard her since she came to the throne. He went to explore the new world in search of adventure. The advisors of Emilia Nighthaven, had twisted minds and eliminated all opposition in court. They were secretly a cult dedicated to Gavin Magnus and held the philosophy that the world should be conquered by the Order, who would ultimately gain all the knowledge possible, and create a new world order under their own principles and believes. They started to make laws that lead the citizens of Great Arcan to great conformity and control, and slowly toward achieving their goal.
Understandingly enough, opposition starts to emerge, lead by a small mischievous halfling, Rendof, with a spirit of a leader unimaginable for a halfling. Rendof believes that Emilia is controlled by her advisors and wants to restore her benevolent rule upon the country. The nobles mock him and tell him to shot his big mouth. But ordinary people start to believe the little creature, now that most nobles obey the oppressive regime. The Council of Magia, and ancient order of the most powerful mages of Erathia, decides to aid Rendof, and sends Astral the Wizard to help him. They raise a sizeable army among the ordinary people, and slowly the advisors begin to take notice of the new threat rising. After several lost battles they send an emissary to the Necromancers lead by Gauldoth Half-Dead, and seek an alliance in the name of control over flash or matter, it’s the same to them. The Necros reluctantly agree, since they wouldn’t mind a harvest of inexperienced peasant for their armies, and turn their attention to help the Nobles of Great Arcan, but secretly.
Now Rendof and Astral face two enemies, which are in fact in a secret alliance. They turn their attention to fight the Necros, while leaving their towns to the Nobles to retake. All looks lost, when a mysterious genie shows up, and decides to help the Revolution. Yep, you guessed, it’s Solmyr, back from his adventures and longing for his love – Emilia Nighthaven. Getting the information from an old friend, he tells Rendof that the Nobles are in fact a cult dedicated to Gavin Magnus and that they are in a secret alliance with the Necros. Rendof goes an inner struggle whether or not he is able to lead a Revolution. Solmyr encourages him, telling him the doubts Emilia also had when she was just a young apprentice. With the new facts, the morale among the revolutionaries rises and they drive off the Necros from their homeland, kill Gauldoth Half-Dead in battle, and gather their armies in front of the capital of Great Arcan, …… (whatever). The final battle begins for the fate of Great Arcan. The three heroes, Rendof, Solmyr and Astral, enter the castle and look at Emilia, all weathered from the hypnotic spells her advisors had cast upon her. She can barely speak, and Solmyr senses her life energy is disappearing. With a tear in his eye, he whispers: “I loved you, my Queen, as no other genie has loved someone before.” and finally sends her to heaven.
Rendof is made the first halfling Emperor ever, Astral his Grand Vizier and Solmyr, having nothing left for him at the court, sets on another journey into the unknown.
The Stealthy and Cunning
Tawni Balfour sets her plan for the Gold Sea Empire to expand its borders to the mainland of Axeoth. Instead waging a conventional war, she decides to use stealth and assassination tactics. Her first mission is to assassinate the young prince of Palaedra, son of Lysander, Nathan. She sends her agent, a rogue by the name Mourgious, to kill Nathan while hunting and make it look like an Elvish assassination, in order to bring the two kingdoms to war, and than easily conquer the pillaged lands. Hostilities have existed before, over that who has the right on the forests in the borderland between Palaedra and the Elves. Having done that, she decides to dig a tunnel leading to the barbarian lands. While digging the tunnel she sends Mourgious to assassinate Waerjak, a scandal that will cause war among the various tribes, without a powerful leader as Waerjak. But while clearing up the way to the Barbarian Lands (either Underground or on surface, depends of the new town), she encounters a native Axeothian race (the new town or new fearsome creatures). They put up a small resistance but are forced to abandon their home, because the Chaos armies are too powerful. Roaming the wilderness, they run over the barbarian lands and put even further pressure to the barbarians that are undergoing a civil war.
This campaign ends when Tawni Balfour conquers some land form her nearest mainland neighbors (barbarians, humans, and elves).
A place to call home (an optional campaign)
This is an optional campaign and its realization depends on the existence of the new town. Also, the story depends a lot on what town will enter homm5 (if any).
Basically, the native race is attacked by the approaching Chaos Army and driven from their homeland. Their task now is to find a place they will call home and establish a powerful kingdom that will be a match for the newcomers. They have no allies (for now), since they hate all the newcomers and find them responsible for the disappearing of the Old Axeoth. They know the history of their world and seek also powerful artifacts that will aid them in their fight for survival. Finally they establish a kingdom, a part of which were former barbarian lands.
Bloodthirsty Savages
With the murder of King Waerjak, the old differences and hostilities among the various tribes of barbarians emerge on surface. Only a powerful and influential leader such as Waerjak was able to hold the country united. The clans start to blame each other for Waerjak’s assassination. All fight in the name of Waerjak, yet nobody listens to his words long ago spoken. The Barbarian Lands are attacked by both the army of Chaos and by the new Native menace. They are much smaller than they used to be and divided as never before.
In the midst of this crisis, a clan leader, a female ogre by the name of Tunrida decides to unite the lands. But she’s hardly a female by any standards; she curses, spits, drinks and eats like an elephant, fights like a wild boar, and looks like, well – a toad. Unlike the other leaders, she rejects Waerjak’s philosophy of peaceful life and order, as being too “human-like”. She prefers destruction, the stench of blood and the glory of war. Being a female and straying from Waerjak’s path, it is hard for her to persuade others to join her cause, so she starts war with almost all the clans.
Eventually she unites them, and then sets to conquer back the lost lands form the Gold Sea Empire and the Natives, and more.
Farming Humans
The lands of the Necromancers after the “death” of their leader Gauldoth Half-Dead are in turmoil. They are attacked by both the new Emperor Halfling Rendof and their former servants, the demons, under King Demian.
A new leader rises among the Necro ranks. It’s the baroness Vermina, an ancient female Necromancer, who knows the secret of eternal youth and has an ambitious plan for her kind. She talks about how Necromancers are destined to rule the world. In the future the world will be divided, she says, between Necromancers and those who serve them as a birthing place for more members of their undead armies. She calls this doctrine “Farming Humans”. She claims that the first objective is for all Necromancers to unite, in order to conquer the humans. Afterwards the establishment of new Necro countries may begin. But for now, their first goal is to conquer the humans.
She quickly drives off the Order armies from the south, and sends an emissary to King Demian, in order to forge an alliance. King Demian recognizes the same interest with Lady Vermina and accepts the treaty.
They quickly conquer all of the vassal kingdoms around Palaedra. The combined demon-necro hordes now march towards the last standing and biggest human Kingdom of Palaedra itself.
An Alliance for a greater goal
After the death of Nathan, the older son of King Lysander, the Kingdom of Palaedra declared war on the Elven Lands. Now they are also attacked by the combined demon-necro armies. The Elves, on the other hand, had no choice, but to accept the war imposed by the Palaedrans. They also had another enemy, the lands taken by both the Gold Sea Empire and the newly-founded Kingdom of Demian.
In this time a messenger from the Barbarian Lands arrives in the capital of Palaedra. He is barely alive, hunted by a fearsome Black Dragon for the past two days. In his last moment of breath, he gives the aging King Lysander a message with a horrible smell from the new Barbarian leader, the ogress Tunrida. Written in a rude style it says that after the “glorious Barbarian armies” lead by the “new fearsome leader Tunrida”, retook the former barbarian towns and “slaughtered all the evil Chaos critters” they encountered, they discovered by torturing the assassin Mourgious, that he is the murderer of Prince Nathan. Tunrida advices King Lysander to make peace with the Elves and deal with the new necro-demon menace together. She, however, doesn’t offer help.
Having realized his mistake, Lysander offers the Elves peace and an alliance against their common enemy. The elves are distrustful towards Lysander, so both parties decide to seal the agreement with the marriage of Lysander’s younger and only left son, Fantor, and the elven princess, daughter of Elwin and Shaera, Shae Triele (why not? Sounds nice.).
At first these two, don’t like each other, but later real love is born. Fantor is also the best general of the Palaedra armies, so he is the one who leads the combined elf-human armies, with his bride by his side, as a sorceress.
The combined elf-human armies, lead by Fantor and Shae Triele, reconquer the lands lost to the Gold Sea Empire and the forests, taken by Demian armies.
It is during the campaign in the Demian forests that Shae Triele constantly has visions of Demian in her dreams. He is really good-looking, so she can’t resist him and has intercourse with him. Before she realizes, she is already the victim of his alter-ego, as an Incubus (cause that’s what he is really). The child she bears is not a Gryphonhaart, as Fantor, but an offspring of a demon and a deceived elven princess. She however is too ashamed to admit that and lies to everybody that it is actually a Fantor’s heir she’s bearing inside her.
While Fantor’s on the frontlines, Demian and Vermina’s armies conquer the capital of Palaedra and kill King Lysander. Enraged, Fantor gathers a mostly elfish army and sets to retake his capital and destroy the evil hordes. He ultimately succeeds and he and his elven bride are made King and Queen of Palaedra, eagerly waiting the yet unborn “Gryphonhaart” prince.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted March 30, 2004 09:26 AM |
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Great job except for one thing:
Gauldoth Half Deat seemed like a smart guy to me, he would't be stupid enough to go to that trouble just for some fresh corpses. He was seeking the meaning of life and death, not power.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted April 04, 2004 02:02 AM |
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Come on, guys! Read it! It's not bad at all. (I think it's better than homm4)
I desperately need your opinion. Mods? Anyone?
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Vadskye91
Promising
Supreme Hero
Back again
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posted April 04, 2004 02:17 AM |
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Wow, that's great! +QP!
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Knowledge is power...
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LordZXZX
Famous Hero
Overfished
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posted April 04, 2004 02:25 AM |
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Just a question
How come all the former leaders die?
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted April 04, 2004 02:33 AM |
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Some are old, some are just unneeded. I think it would be better if new characters are introduced, but also old ones should be mentioned in order to keep the consistency of the story.
I see a huge potential for the story to develop in that demonic offspring that Shae Triele bears. This story is a preperation for a serie of dramatic events to come with the birth of that baby. (but that would be an expansion, i guess). What do you think?
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted April 09, 2005 09:30 PM |
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Great job dude. I can see lots of effort and time went into earning that QP.
My only beef is that the elves have no campaign of their own, just a side quest in the Human campaign where the Human leads Elven troops.
Surely they could have a campaign where they are constantly assaulted from 3 sides the whole way therough their campaign, with their empire shrinking, the final mission being one of survival, where you can't lose certain strategic towns or the Elven empire will finally fall.
This could be the most inventive campaign, with new types of victory conditions and a real sense of urgency if the AI was good enough.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted April 10, 2005 03:14 AM |
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very much homm-like, just scanned trhough it, will return to it later.
the secret alliance idea was quite interesting, although gauldoth wasn't quite depicted as that kind of person.
who was the demon that asked gauldoth for a mansion of it's own or something like that while the demon rebellion was defeated in homm4? if we consider demons to be treacherous, the continuation of the story would be quite obvious with the demon rebellion having something to do with that mansion. also, we might remember that one of gauldoth's fears was demons organizing under one leader.
case 1:
demons could defeat gauldoth and the mages would ask help from the demons, but would demons be intersted in the corpses of rebellious hobbits? with present interpretation of demons, i guess not. at most they would be interested in income and territory, but giving that away might not be in the interests of arcan conspiracy. also, i think both necro and demon races might more or less survive in the end, just demons breaking free from necros.
maybe demons would start helping arcan conspiracy secretly from gauldoth to get some minor land to establish their rebellion as a payment from arcan. could be another possible arcan-like intrigue inciting rebellion in nekross.
case 2:
it was gauldoth rather than the demons who had unusually reasonable diplomatic relations with arcan, so another intrigue seems to be based not on gauldoth being so greedy for new corpses but dire need to get troops to fight back the demons.
now, would gauldoth be stupid enough to create a public opinion among arcan commoners that he oportunistically attacked into their inner rebellion? i mean, possibly provoking an attack from the "hopefully" victorious arcan conspiracy in the future? well, maybe he would, maybe his situation could be desperate enough so that he would have to hope that the arcan conspiracy would depict him as an aid to the greater cause.
but more likely might be the case that arcan conspiracy would not see nekross as tolerable way of "life" from their order point of view, and would like to attack both nekross and the demons. the order town commoner's opinion of undead as seen in the beginning of gauldoth's campaign in homm4 would rather support this scenario.
as i understand, the arcan conspiracy is defeated and gauldoth is in a complicated situation in anouther way, if not defeated by the inexperienced peasants who were attacked from two sides, as you wrote.
if gauldoth is indeed defeated, the morale of the story could be e.g.: 'sometimes **** happens even to the best of us'
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted April 11, 2005 03:17 AM |
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Hueghh, it’s been… a while, since i wrote this one. Had to read it to remember the details really. As always, feedback appreciated.
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the secret alliance idea was quite interesting, although gauldoth wasn't quite depicted as that kind of person.
I have to admit, I never finished the Gauldoth campaign (same with the elves and pirates campaign). I was so demoralized when I got homm4, so I lost all interest. I was planning to get back to the campaign last summer, but I infected with civilization craze then, so i postponed it for this one.
I imagined that the campaign wasn’t anything special, read a brief description of it somewhere (that in the end he gets to rule the nekros), so I based this proposal, maybe unprofessional of me yes, on vague ideas about what it is.
Still, i got only reactions for gauldoth and not the others, and i would appreciate a more detailed description of the campaign, so that we can discuss maybe a better alternative for the storyline. What was with that mansion you mentioned, and was there really a demon rebellion in the homm4 campaign?
As for a seperate elvish campaign, i have nothing against it, but maybe some suggestions what it could include. In fact i imagined the "alliance for a greater goal" campaign to be a joint human and elf campaign.
Concerning your suggestions, Gerdash:
I’m not suggesting that anyone should be defeated in fact. If you look at all the races, how they start and how they end, the status quo at the beginning is maintained in the end (i mean, the lands controlled). With the exception of the new demon homeland. Well, few dead leaders here and there. Point is, all races survive. We surely don’t want disasters like demons disappearing next time, do we?
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demons could defeat gauldoth and the mages would ask help from the demons, but would demons be intersted in the corpses of rebellious hobbits? with present interpretation of demons, i guess not. at most they would be interested in income and territory, but giving that away might not be in the interests of arcan conspiracy.
Hmm, mages seeking help from necros, rather than demons seems more natural to me, since many alchemists had taken the academic path of animating corpses (instead of statues), if u remember. Its not especially relevant this, but there are other reasons as well.
Demons engaging in three wars (against necros initially, then mages, then humans and elves, in a time when they have to establish their independence seems a bit farfetched, both as scenarios, both as story. Beside, necro’s campaign would be less “eventful” that way. I say since its similar whether demons or necros help mages, better be the necros which are kind of more trustworthy partner (plus, the map in my mind makes necros mages’ neighbours)
Also, u urself say that giving land and loot isnt in interest of arcan’s rulers, but giving away fresh rebelious peasant corpses could be. What seems to be troubling you (and others) is gauldoth’s naure, which doesn’t go with greedy corpses slaughter, but i think we can find a better solution for that.
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maybe demons would start helping arcan conspiracy secretly from gauldoth to get some minor land to establish their rebellion as a payment from arcan. could be another possible arcan-like intrigue inciting rebellion in nekross.
don’t really get what you mean. Could u elaborate further?
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it was gauldoth rather than the demons who had unusually reasonable diplomatic relations with arcan, so another intrigue seems to be based not on gauldoth being so greedy for new corpses but dire need to get troops to fight back the demons.
Sounds perfectly reasonable. Only thing is, kreegans campaign is ended when arcan’s campaign starts. Some other suggestions?
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now, would gauldoth be stupid enough to create a public opinion among arcan commoners that he oportunistically attacked into their inner rebellion? i mean, possibly provoking an attack from the "hopefully" victorious arcan conspiracy in the future? well, maybe he would, maybe his situation could be desperate enough so that he would have to hope that the arcan conspiracy would depict him as an aid to the greater cause.
I don’t think theres need for gauldoth to fear arcans conspirators retaliation, when they were the ones to call for his help in the first place and needed him more. Also, public opinion of peasants isnt what the advisors are worried about (thing is, in the minds of ordinary people, they don’t need a clear reason why they were attacked when arcan and necros relations arent friendly historically; the trick is they don’t suspect its because their OWN leaders invited them). However, we suppose that the deal between them includes only a very limited strip of arcan land (and lots of corpses) that goes to necros, so no need for any conflict between them after the supposed advisors voctory.
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as i understand, the arcan conspiracy is defeated and gauldoth is in a complicated situation in anouther way, if not defeated by the inexperienced peasants who were attacked from two sides, as you wrote.
But the revolutionaries kill gauldoth, which makes place for evil vidmoina to come to power. She cleans the border lands from storming arcan armies (after the ascension of the throne by the halfling) and sends em home.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted April 12, 2005 04:34 PM |
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Galdoth wasn't like ordinary "living die, skeletons raise" character from Necromancer domain. In fact he was the first smart leader that ever lead necromancers. His logic was based on not how to destroy life, but how to use it in Nekross' needs. He has strict rules, that protect the living who live in Nekross (One of the general vampires were exposed to the sun because he killed some peasants). He gathered a large amount of frozen corpses from the naturaly dead citezens under the towns, he had good diplomatic abilities, even he had a spark of romance with some priestess. And what is more interesting he kills his master at the end, who is typical "all things die I will make more undead" type. What makes him be generaly good, if you compare to other rulers, like Deyan ones, it's because he infact care for life, as he is half living himself. So scheming and plotting, attacking and raising peasants is more of Sandro's type of a leader, not Galdouth (He even resqued his servant ZOMBIE  ).
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devil1979
Hired Hero
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posted April 12, 2005 05:06 PM |
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pretty damn good dude
storylines are fantastic in these bar a couple of little things.
im gonna completely read through it again so i can be a critic but not overly pesimistic.
it took a lot of thought and well f??? it i couldnt do better lol
take care
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted April 30, 2005 12:15 AM |
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i guess there is the problem that i never completed the order campaign because of getting too bored. i guess the halflings and nagas are just not meant for me. so i am absolutely incompetent in how the order campaign ended.
The Return of the Kreegans
i have never liked the word 'kreegan', and especially disliked the space travel reasoning behind it (ok, back to the topic, i just couldn't help commenting abuot the name 'kreegans').
i remember you asked for description of homm4 necro campaign. '(?)' means i am doubtful about how this detail really was in the campaign.
gauldoth created a small necro kingdom which had surprisingly good relations with the living people, or at least the great arcan. then he freed his master kalibarr who seemed to want a more uncompromising approach towards the living. the orders that kalibarr gave (while gauldoth was on some quest) caused a demon rebellion which, gauldoth helped to suppress (?). as gauldoth said, he didn't think it was dangerous unless the demons united under one leader. suraze was the most significant of the demon leaders (?), and gauldoth imprisoned him. as gauldoth soon understood, kalibarr expected gauldoth to die in the quests he gave him. gauldoth became suspicious of kalibarr and discovered that kalibarr served a divine master from another world who wanted death of all living creatures and was kalibarr merely forwarding his commands. then gauldoth rebelled against kalibarr and killed him.
it turned out that kalibarr had freed suraze to do something to gauldoth, probably to kill gauldoth (?). instead of doing that, suraze appeared in final war against kalibarr and offered military help to gauldoth. it is possible that it was nothing more than kalibarr's orders that were the reason for demon rebellion, but then i would expect suraze would not have traded but would have gladly helped gauldoth in order serve a wise leader like gauldoth in the future and would have expected his loyalty to be rewarded by gauldoth's generosity. instead, suraze traded his military help for 4 towns and a title of duke.
btw, the living peasants of the necro kingdom saw gauldoth as their saviour, because he saved them from kalibarr.
i think 4 fully developed towns is a considerable force in homm, and a title of duke would support the leader position of suraze. he might have had a secret plan to become king of a kingdom one day, that's why he didn't care about better relations with gauldoth. instead, him getting 4 towns form gauldoth while not being extremely loyal to him could be even more impressive from the point of view of rebellious demons.
A Revolution of the Mind
now, solmyr or solymr or however the name should be written, loving emilia and still going away to explore is somewhat contradictory imho, bcause from what i have seen, lovers usually want to be together. maybe the dvisors just put solmyr in a bottle and trew the bottle into the sea. so, only after solmyr returns from his three quests then he can deal with great arcan problems (ok, not serious). whatever, i think he should have a more unavoidable reason to go, like some magic debt to pay or the like.
the idea of ultimate order and knowledge was nice, though. and the idea of 'first halfling emperor ever' was the best imho.
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Fiend_Master
Hired Hero
Master of Hellish Chaos
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posted April 30, 2005 01:27 PM |
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Good work, thumbs-up!
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Death is my servant,
it paces with haste,
it cares not for your age,
for your sex, for your race.
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted May 03, 2005 08:18 AM |
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We surely don’t want disasters like demons disappearing next time, do we?
please don't tell that to religious fanatics.
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maybe demons would start helping arcan conspiracy secretly from gauldoth to get some minor land to establish their rebellion as a payment from arcan. could be another possible arcan-like intrigue inciting rebellion in nekross.
don’t really get what you mean. Could u elaborate further?
arcan would want to weaken nekross by supporting rebellion in nekross. when the rebellion is in the phase when both necros and demons are weakest, arcan would attack.
civil war in arcan might not look like the best moment to consider attacking nekross, but maybe they have everything so carefully planned (which might be arcan-like) that they think they can solve both problems by asking help from demons. if demons got land by defeating arcan rebellion, building a strong army would take some time. but arcan would have even more time to build an army, because arcan would wait a bit untill the war between deomns and necros has progressed enough that nekross isn't so strong anymore. the problem with the ambitious logic of arcan would be that someone else might unexpectedly attack them while they plan to attack nekross. but, according to gauldoth, arcan was the most powerful nation at that time, it's unlikely that anyone would attack it and it could have attacked nekross without any rebellion. maybe arcan wanted to minimize losses in war with nekross or keep good defense home?
btw the reason why gauldoth had good relations with arcan was that gauldoth's military commander moandor had scouted that arcan had taken too many troops away from defense to fight barbarians. so moandor made detailed plans of how arcan could be conquered and presented them to gauldoth. gauldoth didn't decide to attack arcan but sent the plans to queen emilia instead, to make emilia think that nekross is a peaceful neighbor.
now we might think that demons are weak and arcan doesn't need their help if arcan is in no ther war than a civil one. in that case, arcan would have to find a reason to make the demons believe that their help is needed, because the motivation of arcan would be to incite rebellion in nekross. and the demons don't seem to have much choice other than to accept, because rebellion is what they are about to do anyway.
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it was gauldoth rather than the demons who had unusually reasonable diplomatic relations with arcan, so another intrigue seems to be based not on gauldoth being so greedy for new corpses but dire need to get troops to fight back the demons.
Sounds perfectly reasonable. Only thing is, kreegans campaign is ended when arcan’s campaign starts. Some other suggestions?
why not have them at the same time?
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now, would gauldoth be stupid enough to create a public opinion among arcan commoners that he oportunistically attacked into their inner rebellion? i mean, possibly provoking an attack from the "hopefully" victorious arcan conspiracy in the future? well, maybe he would, maybe his situation could be desperate enough so that he would have to hope that the arcan conspiracy would depict him as an aid to the greater cause.
I don’t think theres need for gauldoth to fear arcans conspirators retaliation, when they were the ones to call for his help in the first place and needed him more. Also, public opinion of peasants isnt what the advisors are worried about (thing is, in the minds of ordinary people, they don’t need a clear reason why they were attacked when arcan and necros relations arent friendly historically; the trick is they don’t suspect its because their OWN leaders invited them). However, we suppose that the deal between them includes only a very limited strip of arcan land (and lots of corpses) that goes to necros, so no need for any conflict between them after the supposed advisors voctory.
because arcan commoners would expect arcan nobles to retaliate, and arcan nobles wouldn't have anything to loose if they retaliated except having another war.
in fact i would expect the arcan peasants to quit their rebellion and both arcan nobles and arcan peasants would fight back the necros.
another idea:
* there's rebellion in arcan. there's rebellion in nekross
* arcan nobles secretly ask help from gauldoth who needs to fight back demons
* arcan peasants quit rebellion and both arcan nobles and arcan peasants fight side by side against the necros and kill gauldoth.
* solmyr appears from whatever kept him away (e.g. annual genie gathering) and discoveres that emilia is being manipulated and that it was arcan nobles who asked nekross to attack. solmyr tells rendof how the nobles have cheated them. causing morale drop in arcan armies.
* (?) something mysterious prevents demons from conquering everything there is to conquer in nekross (something bad happens to demons, what could it be?), and somehow the necros manage to find a new leader fast enough and drive out the demoralized arcan forces (maybe it isn't vidomina yet but moandor). maybe driving back arcan forces gives them the corpses they needed to fight against the demons?
* rebellion continues in arcan. rebellion continues in nekross.
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as i understand, the arcan conspiracy is defeated and gauldoth is in a complicated situation in another way, if not defeated by the inexperienced peasants who were attacked from two sides, as you wrote.
But the revolutionaries kill gauldoth, which makes place for evil vidmoina to come to power. She cleans the border lands from storming arcan armies (after the ascension of the throne by the halfling) and sends em home.
what i meant to say was that gauldoth wouldn't fear rebellious peasants who are also attacked by arcan nobles, and this would mean that gauldoth wouldn't be killed by peasants. maybe if gauldoth was weakened by demon rebellion and if arcan nobles supported the peasants.
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btw gauldoth thought that universe had a plan for him including that he should follow the balance in the universe. and indeed, gauldoth had some extremely lucky coincidences. so, it would turn out that the plan of the universe was to have gauldoth killed by rebellious arcan peasants. wouldn't that be ironic?
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted May 07, 2005 04:20 AM |
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now, solmyr or solymr or however the name should be written, loving emilia and still going away to explore is somewhat contradictory imho
Hmm, I don’t remember him specifically loving her, but only him showing some fascination with her. I guess he just doesn’t get a turn on on human chicks. Could be wrong though. In which case, yeah, the thing with “Ginie in a bottle” is a naice add-on (although Miss Augiliera will have to take some credits in that case), or some another way to get rid of him. Maybe he is banished from Great Arcan by the advisors (through their control over Emilia), accusing him for helping Gavin Magnus at the time.
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arcan would want to weaken nekross by supporting rebellion in nekross. when the rebellion is in the phase when both necros and demons are weakest, arcan would attack.
Thing is, although I can easily see demons accepting (temporary) help from Arcan, I cant see Arcan pursuing an expansionist “grab more land” type of politics. Also, later on, they turn for help towards Necros (Gauldoth) out of necessity, so that would seem unlogical if earlier they had been the ones helping demons to set free from their undead masters.
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it was gauldoth rather than the demons who had unusually reasonable diplomatic relations with arcan, so another intrigue seems to be based not on gauldoth being so greedy for new corpses but dire need to get troops to fight back the demons.
Sounds perfectly reasonable. Only thing is, kreegans campaign is ended when arcan’s campaign starts. Some other suggestions?
-why not have them at the same time?
This is what I thought: Because Necross wouldn’t be so dumb to start another campaign with rebelion at home, but since with Necross waging war means gaining rather than losing troops (especially against inexperienced peasant armies; or so they thought), I guess your suggestion sounds excellent and it solves the problem with Gauldoth motives and fits perfectly in the big picture without disturbing anything else. However, it would seem unchronological a bit. Whichever camapaign you play first, either Gauldoth is killed (revolution of the mind), or demon rebellion is over (return of the kreegans) in the end. Playing the other one would feel a bit odd.
So maybe, the Arcan campaign should follow after Demian’s victory, and the motive for help would be to raise more army in order to reconquer the lost land (in which case, failiure, as it happens, would mean even more dissatisfaction among the Necro lords, so enough fertile ground for such extremist fraction aka “Farming Humans” to gain support). But in this scenario, whats worse, is the weak motive, i.e. the total irrationality in entering a war in order to start another war that you have already lost.
What do you think?
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in fact i would expect the arcan peasants to quit their rebellion and both arcan nobles and arcan peasants would fight back the necros.
That’s something that the Arcan peasants would want, but unlikely the nobles would do, cos they are attacking their hidden allies, who on the other hand strike selectively only against the peasants. Theres no point at all in nobles turning against necross, a trustworthy partner.
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btw gauldoth thought that universe had a plan for him including that he should follow the balance in the universe. and indeed, gauldoth had some extremely lucky coincidences. so, it would turn out that the plan of the universe was to have gauldoth killed by rebellious arcan peasants. wouldn't that be ironic?
Well you never know. Maybe he just was an unimportant occurrence in the big plan anyway.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted May 07, 2005 06:59 PM |
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as i said, i didn't play order campaign till the end. campaigns had a tendency to end in an orgia, at least the human and elven ones, so i expected order campaign to be the same, and your description of homm5 order campaign also hinted that.
i didn't mean that they would turn to help to both demons and necros, i listed them as alternatives.
the arcans would not be exactly pursuing 'grab more land' goal, it's just that their plan to establish world order implies conquering all the world.
the praised homm2 campaigns, as far as i understood, took place at the same time. when you played roland, roland was already killed in archibald's campaign. it wouldn't even be as "bad" as in homm2.
there would just be the historical situation, at some moment gauldoth would be defeated, and it would affect all campaigns. like the wars of the barbarians and elves of humans, didn't the storylines intertwine? i must have misunderstood your campaign descriptions, if they didn't.Quote:
That’s something that the Arcan peasants would want, but unlikely the nobles would do, cos they are attacking their hidden allies, who on the other hand strike selectively only against the peasants. Theres no point at all in nobles turning against necross, a trustworthy partner.
gauldoth might be a trustworthy partner, but i never imagined that you would consider the arcan conspiracy a trystworthy partner. i see absolutely no trouble with the arcan conspiracy being treacherous from the very start, i.e. asking help from gauldoth just in order to provoke the rebellious peasants to quit rebellion and attack necro together. considering that necro already has trouble with the demons, that should be an easy victory.
thinking against it the second time, maybe it would be even beter if arcan nobles had a secret pact with both the demons and the necros. they would first help demons (maybe not by asking them to atack, but in some other way) to get the demon rebellion started in nekross. and then they would ask nekross to attack rebellious arcan peasants to provoke peasants to ally against the necros who are weakened by demon rebellion.
imho it would make sense. from arcan nobles point of view it would look like that:
1. help demons to start rebellion in nekross to weaken nekross.
2. now necros would need corpses to fight back demons. ask necros for "help" to make rebellious peasants to quit their rebellion and join against necros.
3. conquer both necros and demons.
4. deal with whatever is left of the peasant rebellion (if there is anything left of it).
you know, arcan nobles might think:
1. why would we fight our rebellious peasants if we could instead have our rebellious peasants help us conquer the filthy nekross?
2. why would we fight nekross armies in all their glory if we could instead make them fight each other first?
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted May 12, 2005 01:44 AM |
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Yes, in fact I find your version of the story better now. Much more interwinded and messy. That was one objective I aimed at - make campaigns different but at the same time a part of one bigger story.
I can only add that I think the Arcan conspiracy should work secretly and support allies ("groups of interest" more correct) not with direct millitary aid, but other means (for example, they could aid the demons with finding/giving an artifact or smth; with the necross as I said, a secret pact; and with the Arcan resistance, through farwarding the cause for unity against a greater evil). Remember the same theme of unity against greater evil being induced later in the Palaedra and Elves campaign, which would make the feat of achieving such alliance even more difficult, due to bad past experiences.
It would also be interesting in the game iself, when the player will reveal these hidden alliances one at a time, thus his illusion of the just kingdom of Arcan slowly disappearing as their secret plans and intrigues are revealed.
Thanks, gerdash.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Kaboth
Hired Hero
Forum Vampire Killer
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posted May 25, 2005 07:46 AM |
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I have to admit, I never finished the Gauldoth campaign (same with the elves and pirates campaign). I was so demoralized when I got homm4, so I lost all interest. I was planning to get back to the campaign last summer, but I infected with civilization craze then, so i postponed it for this one.
I imagined that the campaign wasn’t anything special, read a brief description of it somewhere (that in the end he gets to rule the nekros), so I based this proposal, maybe unprofessional of me yes, on vague ideas about what it is.
Still, i got only reactions for gauldoth and not the others, and i would appreciate a more detailed description of the campaign, so that we can discuss maybe a better alternative for the storyline. What was with that mansion you mentioned, and was there really a demon rebellion in the homm4 campaign?
You should play the HOMM4 death campaign it is actually pretty short ( 5 scenarios) and Gauldoth is probably the most original, non-cliched characters NWC ever created. He isn't remotely like Sandro.
Another problem I recognised, you mentioned Lysander's grandson would have been a Griphonhaart. I'm quite certain Lysander himself wasn't a Griphonhaart. The last scenario in the HOMM4 campaign he has to fight a hero who claims to be a snow child of Griphonhaart for the right to rule Palandrea. The only Griphonhaart's that may be left are Nickolai if he didn't die in the reckoning. Another hero (warlock from HOMM3) claimed to bear a snow child to King Griphonhaart also but they may or may not be true.
But otherwise great story I really liked it.
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=6]Library Of Enlightenment[/url], to discuss Heroes 4, please go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=17]War Room Of Axeoth[/url], to discuss Heroes 5, go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=1]Temple Of Ashan[/url].
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