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| Thread: Splitting stacks during combat? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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MadTurkey
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 30, 2004 02:57 PM |
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Splitting stacks during combat?
First of all, I'd like to thank the WOG team for the incredible job they've done. I know how much work goes into projects like this and I'm grateful.
Second, I have what I hope is a cheap feature suggestion. I'd like to be able to split a creature stack during combat. My thinking is that, as the balance of power becomes tilted toward stronger creatures, this would restore some value to the first and second level ones. Split your huge stack of pikemen and attack that nasty ghost behemoth with just one of them to absorb the counterstrike. Then attack with the remainder...
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greek_god_su...
Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
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posted July 30, 2004 09:26 PM |
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Interesting idea you have there!
But isnīt it too powerful if you could always extract the top creature to take retaliation and then strike with the rest of the stack. Everybody would always do so and that really destroys the whole idea of retaliation.
I think there should be some kind of limitations for splitting stacks.
Otherwise very nice idea.
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After all, marriage and murder are not too different - one ends your life and the other is a crime
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MadTurkey
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 30, 2004 09:39 PM |
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Good point.
How about this as a restriction? Splitting costs a turn so your opponent has a chance to wipe the small stack out before the maneuver. Of course this costs him a turn as well, but it's his choice.
This creates another strategic element.
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted July 30, 2004 09:48 PM |
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Yeah, that would make it more or less ballanced. Another way would be limiting the feat to splitting in half, so you can't make single kamikazes anymore.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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greek_god_su...
Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
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posted July 30, 2004 09:52 PM |
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Yeah, why not. What I thought when I wrote my previous post was that maybe you could not decide the number of units to be extracted, but it would always, for example, divide the stack by 2 or something. This way the sacrifice would be bigger than just one pikeman, making things a bit more fair.
But when I think, your suggestion might be better.
Edit: Damnit, Woock, you were faster!
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After all, marriage and murder are not too different - one ends your life and the other is a crime
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted July 30, 2004 09:55 PM |
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I don't like the idea. It takes away some Strategies from the game. I would no longer be possible to kill 100 Hydras with one Devil.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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greek_god_su...
Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
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posted July 30, 2004 10:00 PM |
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Then maybe the stack splitting wouldnīt be a basic feature, but perhaps a spell?? or ability given by some skill/artifact or something??
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After all, marriage and murder are not too different - one ends your life and the other is a crime
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted July 30, 2004 10:02 PM |
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Maybe it could be added to the abilities given by the tactics skill? Hey, it's only logical.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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greek_god_su...
Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
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posted July 30, 2004 10:04 PM |
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I thought about it too.
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After all, marriage and murder are not too different - one ends your life and the other is a crime
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Draco
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 30, 2004 10:08 PM |
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or if you could only use it once per battle, at the start of combat (of course this would only work with tactics)
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Mitzah
Promising
Supreme Hero
of the Horadrim
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posted July 30, 2004 10:48 PM |
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Daddy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
and why not.
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posted July 30, 2004 11:06 PM |
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another idea would be that you could only do it a limited time in a battle, pretty much like the player-exchanging for soccer. e.g. you can only split a stac 3 or 4 times in a battle and (maybe) every stack only once.
reg
Daddy
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greek_god_su...
Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
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posted July 30, 2004 11:17 PM |
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maybe
Shouldnīt there also be an option to combine two or more stacks of same creatures?
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After all, marriage and murder are not too different - one ends your life and the other is a crime
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Daddy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
and why not.
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posted July 30, 2004 11:19 PM |
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nice idea - this should then fall under the same restictions and would 'cost' one of the 3 or 4 times u have to divide/combine.
reg
Daddy
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MadTurkey
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 30, 2004 11:27 PM |
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Piggybacking on the tactics idea (which I think is excellent) and the concept of limiting the number of splits:
Without tactics:
May split one stack of level 1 creatures, once per combat.
With basic tactics:
May split one stack of level 1 creatures per round.
With advanced tactics
May split one stack of level 1 or 2 creatures per round.
With expert tactics
May split one stack of level 1,2, or 3 creatures per round.
Stacks may be divided into arbitrary sizes, but stacks must be divided during their normal combat turn and may not move or attack during that turn.
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greek_god_su...
Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
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posted July 30, 2004 11:34 PM |
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I think all creature levels should be included, not just 1, 2 and 3.
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After all, marriage and murder are not too different - one ends your life and the other is a crime
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MadTurkey
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 31, 2004 01:19 AM |
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My reasoning for restricting the "split" ability to the lower levels was that the game balance seems increasingly tilted toward the more powerful creatures. After all, how often do you find yourself collecting huge stacks of peasants or goblins? Even when they number in the hundreds, they're just too weak to put up against the new ultra-powerful neutrals or even level 8 castle creatures.
I was looking for a way to bring the little guys back into the game. Allowing them to split wouldn't make them super powerful, but it would make them more interesting to use if you're good at visualizing combat like a game of chess and predicting several moves in advance.
I'm not completely opposed to the idea of allowing stronger creatures to split, but I think it would be better for game balance if the ability were limited to weaker ones.
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted July 31, 2004 01:37 AM |
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I like Daddy's joining idea - it'd be somewhat useful for Inferno (adding newly acquired demons to the main demon stack prevents easy loss of fresh troops that are otherwise an easy target)
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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fnord
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 31, 2004 04:47 AM |
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Quote:
First of all, I'd like to thank the WOG team for the incredible job they've done. I know how much work goes into projects like this and I'm grateful.
Second, I have what I hope is a cheap feature suggestion. I'd like to be able to split a creature stack during combat. My thinking is that, as the balance of power becomes tilted toward stronger creatures, this would restore some value to the first and second level ones. Split your huge stack of pikemen and attack that nasty ghost behemoth with just one of them to absorb the counterstrike. Then attack with the remainder...
On behalf of the WoG team, you're welcome. :-)
Splitting stacks is actually more complicated to realize than it sounds, but I did successfully manage to script stack splitting AND stack combining as a new option for 3.58. After much pre-beta bug fixing, *almost* everything seems fine with this option. Testing has so far turned up only two significant problems which unfortunately can't be solved at this time:
1. Some additional losses will usually be reported in the post-battle combat information window if you split stacks. I think this may affect experience too, although I'm not completely certain.
2. Sometimes if you split Skeletons or Skeleton Warriors, Necromancers won't get their skeletons from Necromancy after the battle.
Anyway, if you can live with these two problems, the script works. It works for any level of creature and no special hero skills are required, however you ARE limited to:
a) only splitting stacks into TWO EQUAL PARTS (or as equal as possible);
b) only splitting stacks ONCE per combat;
c) only splitting stacks that were there at the START of a combat, so you can't split summoned Elementals or Clones for example.
d) the stack that splits USES ITS ACTION, but the split-off stack will still be able to act this turn. So in essence, you use half an action to split.
You can COMBINE stacks of the same type an unlimited number of times in a combat, however both stacks must be ADJACENT. This is a fairly big limitation in itself in my opinion. You can actually combine summoned creatures too, but only with other summoned creatures. So if you have enough spell points and time on your side (rarely the case in most combats), you could theoretically build a really BIG single stack of summoned elementals.
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greek_god_su...
Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
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posted July 31, 2004 12:12 PM |
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I canīt say nothing, but Fnord you rule!
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