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| Thread: How To Steal an Election: Part Two |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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drlucifer
Adventuring Hero
The Surgeon of Death
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posted November 08, 2004 02:05 AM |
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Quote:
the Democratic party seems quite incapable of defeating one of the worst Republican presidents in recent times.
So it would seem to all us left-wing commies, but in fact many people have been convinced that Bush has singlehandedly:
1. Saved us (the Americans) from "evil" Muslim terrorists
2. defended the institution of marriage against "evil" homosexuals in search of equal rights
3. given tax cuts to everyone in America instead of putting it in the hands of "evil" big government
4. removed an "evil" madman from power in Iraq
5. outlawed the "evil" practice of partial-birth abortions
6. refused to obey the demands of the "evil" U.N.
...and the list goes on.
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Doctors are not necessarily your friends.
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Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
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posted November 08, 2004 02:18 AM |
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PH:
Many of us think Kerry did beat Bush. We may never know for sure.
Here's what one Canadian had to say about it:
Quote:
As I see it from Canada, it looks like the voting machines are owned and controlled by the Republicans. The Florida numbers simply do not make sense.
The most amazing thing is that the mainstream media, and the majority of Americans have surrendered their democracy. There wasn't even a murmur. A country that touts itself as the greatest democracy in the world (a bit over the top on that comment), has given up the very mechanism of democracy to machines that keep no records.
No records? So some of you seem to hold out for 2008. Why? Do you not think that between now and then, the rest of the States will be converted to these evote machines? Either the obvious fraud is brought to light, or voting in the US is no more valuable as it was in Iraq when Saddam got 97 percent of the vote.
Hopefully the moderate Republicans will aid the cause and provide the evidence. It is very sad that you lost your freedom so quickly and quietly.
Posted by: Carl at November 7, 2004 06:06 PM
This entry appeared in the "comments" section following an essay from washingtondispatch.com.
-Laelth
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Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted November 08, 2004 02:41 AM |
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Forgive me if I fail to buy that latest line of paranoid murmurings. Let's face it, most people who feel that way would feel that way no matter what. You expect the election to have been rigged, you expected it before it even took place. For all your plattitudes, I strongly get the feeling that what you're looking for is not what happened, but what you think happened and looking for proof of it. Of course you say otherwise, but that's not the overall impression you and others give out sorry.
As for your comments "drlucifer" it worries me to realise that some people in the states really think that way.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted November 08, 2004 09:11 AM |
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Many of us think Kerry did beat Bush. We may never know for sure.
The fact that you repeat something doesn't make it anymore true. Until you come up with evidences, you're just a sore loser, sorry.
It's funny to watch it anyways, the same happened here in hungary. The same arguments, the same whining, the same "they control the media", etc...
Only difference was that here the left side won and the right side complained.
I've always been conservative. I did not want the socialist party to win the elections. Still, after I had to listen to all this whining after it, all this "they cheated, they must have cheated for we are the good they are the devil, they, they control the media they, they - recount, recount" I felt really bad. I promised that until other guys get to the lead on my side, I won't vote for them. I felt ashamed. I still do not like the socialists, but now I respect them more at least.
As for the US election, yes, I believe that the re-election of Bush is a catastrophe in itself. It seems to be from here. I hope I am wrong. No, Laelth, with your whining you won't make me like Bush. But you drive dengerously close to this.
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tyler
Known Hero
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posted November 08, 2004 09:52 AM |
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No sane human being would vote for Bush !!!
Either most americans are brainwashed, or it was really stolen.
Wich option would one enbrace ?
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Sir, we are surrounded! Excellent, now we can attack in any direction!
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted November 08, 2004 11:17 AM |
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Depends, quite a few right wing religious people support him for a start.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted November 08, 2004 11:46 AM |
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All you can be sure is that either you or them are brainwashed :-)
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted November 08, 2004 05:52 PM |
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Lealth, indeed all voting irregularities should be investigated and corrected, but it's more than a little bit of a stretch to think that is what gave the election to Bush. The Republicans won because they stuck to the same lies over and over and over again and they convinced people that two guys getting married is a bigger threat to our well being than soldiers dying in Iraq while guarding Halliburton's profits. In 2000, the election was stolen on election day, this time it had been stolen well before election day, so don't waste your time hoping that somehow we can prove that 3,000,000 votes were faked.
In 2000, we lost the championship game because of a blown call by the refs. What we should have been doing is asking ourselves how the election was so close that a blown call could switch the outcome. Instead, we snowed about the referees and didn't change anything because, after all, we won last time. We won't win next time if we don't change something and what we need to change more than anything else is that we need to get our message out there. Republicans have dedicated media outlets -- Fox, Talk Radio, various newspapers like the Washington Times and the New York Post. Democrats need to counter this, we need to have our message out there as much as the Republicans have theirs.
As to exit polls, the reason why they can be so wrong, other than the obvious statistical sampling error is in how they convert from 2,000 people asked to the results from 1,000,000 voters. What they do is they assume that the relative ratios of each "group" voting stays very similar from year to year -- ie, if white catholic males made up 12% of the voting population in state X in year 2000, it's going to be approximately 12% in year 2004. They then use these values to project from 2,000 to 1,000,000. As an example
2000
White catholic males 12%
White catholic females 15%
White protestant males 24%
White protestant females 28%
Black protestant males 8%
Black protestant females 10%
Black catholic males 1%
Black catholic females 2%
Year 2004 exit poll results
White catholic males Bush 55% Kerry 45%
White catholic females B 50% K 50%
White protestant males B 60% K 40%
White protestant females B 48% K 52%
Black protestant males B 10% K 90%
Black protestant females B 5% K 95%
Black catholic males B 5% K 95%
Black catholic females B 5% K 95%
Exit poll prediction : Bush : (.55)x(.12) + .5x.15 + .6x.24 + .48x.28 + .1x.08 + .05x.1 + .05x.01 + .05x.02 = 42.9% (check my math, though)
BUT, if for some reason, white protestant males come out to vote in unusually large number, say making up 18% of the electorate, than the exit polls would be off by a fairly large margin. What, in fact happened this time is that evangelicals came out to cast their vote in favor of fag-bashing, the exit polls did not accurately weight the evangelical vote and hence the error in the prediction.
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Drive by posting.
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Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
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posted November 08, 2004 06:43 PM |
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Bort:
Thorough, well-documented analysis, thanks. And you may be right.
Or, maybe the exit polls were right, and we have a good reason to be suspicious of the official results. I understand that a large number of people are protesting in the Ukraine right now about possible vote fraud of the same kind. When the exit polls don't match the reported results, people get suspicious. You can read about what's going on in the Ukraine HERE.
I have heard from a reputable source (someone who regularly speaks to many American journalists) that right now the US media in under what's called a "lock down." Television stations across the U.S. have been "encouraged" not to report on or even discuss among themselves the possibility that the election was stolen. Instead, the story you'll see on the news today and tonight is that "Americans Are Relieved by Bush's Decisive Victory." Watch the news tonight and see if I'm not right. Official state propaganda at its best. Fascism, here we come!
I can assure you that there are lots of people working to prove that this election was stolen, and they're trying to get their message out to the public. Looks like the state won't even allow that message be heard. After all, "We're at war." And our President has assured everyone that, "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists." And the media folks want to stand tall with the President. If they don't, they can get shipped off to Guantanamo Bay and rot for the rest of their lives because they can be denied access to an attorney.
But, really, everything's fine here in the U.S. Not to worry!
-Laelth
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Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
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Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
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posted November 09, 2004 11:56 PM |
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LOL! This is rich!
I just had to share. The online, English language version of Pravda has a story about election fraud in the U.S., but there's hardly a peep about it over here. Last night there was a 15 minute segment on a cable channel, MSNBC's Hardball, but there's been no mention of anything election-fraud related on the major television networks.
Please, let me know if you see something. It would be nice to get some news without having to turn to foreign sources.
-Laelth
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Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted November 17, 2004 06:45 PM |
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I thought this was interesting, considering where this thread has gone in the last week.
Quote:
Few political rituals are so honored as overreading the results of an election.
In the rush to explain this one, at least six myths have taken root:
A tidal wave of churchgoers won the day. As Democratic pollster Geoffrey Garin notes, the percentage of the voting electorate that attends church once a week was 42% -- precisely what it was in 2000.
And President Bush's percentage of that vote was 58%, up a mere point from 2000. Bush's greatest gains came among voters who attend church less often, including an increase of 4 percentage points of those who never go.
People based their votes on their moral values. Though 22% cited their moral values as the deciding issue, the percentage that cited one of the two biggest foreign policy issues, Iraq and terrorism, was significantly higher -- 34%.
And it turns out that a "moral value" is in the conscience of the beholder. In a poll due out this week from the Center for American Progress, a left-leaning think tank, 42% of respondents said the war in Iraq was the most important moral issue influencing their vote, compared with 13% who chose abortion and less than 10% who chose gay marriage.
All the hype about young voters was wrong; they stayed home, as they always do. Yes and no. After a lengthy slide in youth voting, nearly 21 million under-30 voters showed up at the polls this year, a 9% increase from 2000. But since just about everyone else showed up in bigger numbers too, their percentage of the total electorate was roughly what it was four years ago.
The hundreds of millions George Soros and other Bush foes poured into turning out the Democratic base was a waste. The outcome may not have been to their liking, but the Democrats' efforts paid off. Kerry got about 4.1 million votes more than Al Gore did four years ago.
And nearly 60% of that increase can be found in the states that were targeted by the independent groups. What they didn't count on: that the Republican turnout operation produced an even bigger surge of 8.2 million votes nationally for Bush.
The country has moved to the right on social issues. TIME's polling suggests that voters remain where they have been for a very long time: in the moderate middle on the most sizzling social issues.
They overwhelmingly favor (69% to 22%) using discarded embryos for stem-cell research; only 9% oppose abortion in all circumstances; and while 58% say they oppose gay marriage, about the same number -- 60% -- approve of some kind of official recognition of gay unions, an AP poll says.
John Kerry didn't lose the election; it was stolen. Conspiracy theories abound on left-leaning websites -- particularly about Florida and Ohio, the two states that determined the outcome.
None of them seem to be holding up. Why, for instance, did Bush win many Florida counties where the majority of registered voters are Democrats? Those areas in the northern and central parts of the state have long traditions of voting Republican in presidential contests.
Seems I was right, and your theories, are nothing more than theories. 
Just because a foreign paper is reporting about something you perceive to be true (which later turns out false) doesn’t mean everyone needs to look to foreign news to read about their country. Generally there would be a bias there anyway, don’t you think?
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted November 19, 2004 12:03 AM |
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(most) Loud mouthed Protesters and people who really believe in something like a political party with their mortal determination irritate me. This thread irritates me.
If the tables were turned in one way or the other, there would be someone else standing up about somethin claiming to be right blah blah... I hope I feel as stupid as most people will if theres an after life...
Of course, theres no telling what we will feel but for certain atleast repubs, or demos are litteraly wrong... My guess is both will not feel "right". Though there are some people who just mind their own buisness and dont really think about the idiocrity of governments in most countries today.
Anyways, I am humble if I'm right or wrong in most aspects. I am also not happy the elites tell us which canidates are to be president. Thats Bs. it's either one or the other, but it dosnt make a difference to most voters.. . Vote red or blue
As far as what some canadian, or some michael more or anti bush guy has to say.. They are all mortals so wth can they possibly know that some other mortal has something opposite to say?
edit:
incase anyones wondering, if I had to choose, I would not choose Kerry. But, its decided outside of democracy who the servent can be if they win electorals.
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What are you up to
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted November 19, 2004 12:17 AM |
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I'm usually right no matter what...Laelth is left...HA HA! 
Maybe that should have gone in the Lame Joke thread.
You are right though, if Kerry had won, this thread and threads like it would probably be much more popular.
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