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| Thread: morale system in Heroes V |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted April 24, 2005 09:37 AM |
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Poll Question:
morale system in Heroes V
what morale system would u like to see in heroes 5.
would u like the h2/h3 system where another turn is given or the h4 system where the creatures with high morale move first? or would u like some totally new morale system for H5?
i really dont mind what system is chosen.
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted April 24, 2005 04:37 PM |
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The H4 system was more dynamic, which was more representative of how a battle would be.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted April 24, 2005 06:05 PM |
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while homm4 system didn't enable to plan in what order you want to attack which enemies with which stacks of your own army.
also, i think it would be better if morale freeze or morale bonus would be determined after you ordered the stack to attack something. e.g. if the attack is a certain suicide, morale freeze should be more likely.
additionally, it might be worth to consider associating a morale stat to creatures (base morale or morale multiplier), so that champions would be less likely to freeze in panic than peasants.
a peasant should get morale freeze more likely than a champion if you ordered it to attack 100 black dragons, even if it would be suicide in both cases.
and another thing to consider would be separating morale and discipline. actually i support the idea that creatures would sometimes ignore your commands and pick targets on their own, more favourably picking their mortal enemies or targets that won't hurt them too much. the more discipline the more likely your creatures follow your orders to the letter and the less likely you are to get both positive and negative morale effects. i guess only undead would have 100% discipline.
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Ellderon
Adventuring Hero
Lightbringer
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posted April 24, 2005 11:55 PM |
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I agree with Gerdash..
Each unit should be unique
It should have it's own moral rating (0-100) and morale break treshold and morale recovery.
So a Pesant would have 40 morale and would break when it reaches 30. Recovers slowly
A Champion would have 60 and would break at 20. recovers fast.
A Paladin would have 80 and would break at 10. recoveres very fast.
and a unit like angels could not only increase the starting morale of units, but allso the treshold.
So with an angel in the army, all units would get +10 to starting morale and an icrease of morale recovery (or maby a -10 to morale brake treshold?)
And of course, the discipline, love/hate unit relationship and the ilk would make the game far more interesting.
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elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted April 25, 2005 12:34 AM |
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gerdash that discipline idea seems great not only because its smething new but because its just common sense.and about ignoring the comanders orders, mabye leadership could include the discipline system aswell as morale
i was also thinking about your morale system Ellderon and what about if a stack kills a creature they get a small morale bonus but if one allied stack dies their morale falls a small amount. i think morale changing in battle is just more realistic, after all a peasant stack shouldnt have 5 morale if they are the only one fighting some black dragons.
i was also thinking of a new skill. what happens is at the start of a battle u can try to talk your troops into thinking this is gonna be an easy battle which raises morale a bit but if something bad goes wrong from a serious tactical mistake and many creatures are taken out then morale drops badly and so does discipline.
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted April 25, 2005 03:14 AM |
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Quote:
The H4 system was more dynamic, which was more representative of how a battle would be.
What do you mean by that?
gerdash, I dont like the discipline proposal, since players would lose their control, and it could lead to unplanned battles where one such creature adventure could cost you ur win. I like very much the proposal about freezing (losing morale) when attacking formidable stacks.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted April 25, 2005 03:25 AM |
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I meant that stacks gained morale and lost it determined by their prowess in battle.
Basically the more hit points they killed, the more morale they got.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted April 25, 2005 03:29 AM |
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thats what i tried to put forward in my post because its a very good idea to me
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted April 25, 2005 03:55 AM |
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re: Asmodean
Quote:
I meant that stacks gained morale and lost it determined by their prowess in battle.
Basically the more hit points they killed, the more morale they got.
really? i never knew morale bonus wasn't random in homm4. or.. is a_rebirthing_flight same as asmodean?
re: Ellderon
the idea of morale recovery seems to be a good one. i would think that peasants would have fast and champions slow morale recovery, though. champions would be more ashamed of a morale freeze for a longer time.
re: Svarog
i guess in most cases results of this discipline failure would be less severe than the traditional morale freeze. the stacks wouldn't generally decide that they want to do a suicidal attack. e.g. stack attacking into the range of strong enemy creatures might be a problem, though. maybe this discipline problem would be less likely the more the stack would have to walk to the ai-chosen target (usually applies adjacent units). on the other hand, if you wanted full control, you might want your hero to learn discipline rather than morale skill.
may the game be called 'heroes of morale and magic' in the future..
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted April 25, 2005 04:03 AM |
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i just thinking what if creatures can flee. eg. an moderate army is attacking 17 black dragons. the blacks are going to win easily so when a group of archers realise this they flee the battle, abandon the hero and become a neutral stack that wander around the map.
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted April 25, 2005 04:34 AM |
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Quote:
I meant that stacks gained morale and lost it determined by their prowess in battle.
Basically the more hit points they killed, the more morale they got.
??? I never really played the game long enough to learn how it worked there. First time i hear it works like this. You mean, before they kill/demage anything, they can get no morale (first round) then?
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted April 25, 2005 02:17 PM |
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First round morale in HOMM4 was set only by the morale they had going into battle.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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Ellderon
Adventuring Hero
Lightbringer
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posted April 26, 2005 01:32 PM |
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Quote:
by Gerdash
re: Ellderon
the idea of morale recovery seems to be a good one. i would think that peasants would have fast and champions slow morale recovery, though. champions would be more ashamed of a morale freeze for a longer time.
may the game be called 'heroes of morale and magic' in the future..
Yeah, it can be done that way too. Alltough which unit would regain morale at what speed should be carefully balanced...
And discipline faliure doesn't have to be catastrophic.. It's easy to script a AI that will choose a good target and not atack some random enemy (like a stack of Black Dragons).
So you order a Palli to attack other pallies. They refuse to do it and insted search for some other enemy unit in range (that they can reach in one turn) to which they can deal a lot of damage and recive little in return.
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elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
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sondronic7
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 26, 2005 04:48 PM |
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discipline feature
The "discipline" idea sounds great... at first. I mean, it WOULD add a new dimension of realism - bringing each independent army stack to life. But as mentioned before, it would ultimately result in the gamer's loss of control and would thus take away from the STRATEGY aspect of the game. I believe the level of frustration one would have after multiple army "mutanies" would far outweigh the enjoyment of adding this aspect to the game. Also, if Paladins are freezing to attack other Paladins... wouldn't battles take twice as long?! Think about when there's only evenly-matched Paladins left on the battlefield. There may be several freezes between each of them. UGH!
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted April 26, 2005 05:39 PM |
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omg, that frustration would be terrible!
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted April 27, 2005 07:48 AM |
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maybe disciplin should be a starting option at the start like mobile guards were in h4
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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Ellderon
Adventuring Hero
Lightbringer
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posted April 27, 2005 11:12 AM |
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Quote:
The "discipline" idea sounds great... at first. I mean, it WOULD add a new dimension of realism - bringing each independent army stack to life. But as mentioned before, it would ultimately result in the gamer's loss of control and would thus take away from the STRATEGY aspect of the game. I believe the level of frustration one would have after multiple army "mutanies" would far outweigh the enjoyment of adding this aspect to the game. Also, if Paladins are freezing to attack other Paladins... wouldn't battles take twice as long?! Think about when there's only evenly-matched Paladins left on the battlefield. There may be several freezes between each of them. UGH!
first of all, dispiline faliure should be rare...
As for Paladins freezing..if both arimes are left with only pallies, than the battle is over. They won't fight and the only thing to do is either go Hero vs. Hero or back to town..
Actually, this would be fun.
general 1: "Kill them!"
paladins 1: "Nope!"
general 2: "Hahaha...now you're doomed! Kill them!"
paladins 2: "Do it yourself you loser!"
general 1: "what now?"
general 2: "Do you take a raincheck?"
EDIT: Yes, options is the way to go.
IT IS NEVER A GOOD IDEA TO LIMIT/FORCE A PLAYER TO SOMETHING IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO.
A lot of options to turn on/off is the way o go!
You want complex morale? Switch it on.
Want discipline? Switch it on.
etc...
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elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted April 27, 2005 11:52 AM |
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i don't see any reason for such extreme panic at all. no one i know of became frustrated to death because of the traditional morale freeze which should imho be worse than this discipline penalty.
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Ellderon
Adventuring Hero
Lightbringer
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posted April 28, 2005 12:24 AM |
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Agreed.
With freeze you lost your turn completely..
With discipline the enemy takes some damage.
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elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted April 28, 2005 03:02 AM |
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Quote:
i don't see any reason for such extreme panic at all. no one i know of became frustrated to death because of the traditional morale freeze which should imho be worse than this discipline penalty.
How many you know who actually played serious games with negative morale?
I never have. Its frustrating to death to see a powerful stack in a decicieve moment lose turn, since just that might cost you the game.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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