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| Thread: Good things for Fortress |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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ChoaticHyrda
Adventuring Hero
The Man of Many Faces
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posted August 15, 2001 02:05 PM |
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Edited By: Hexa on 26 Jan 2002
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Good things for Fortress
I've been reading a few Fortress posts out there where people say it sucks, or they think it sucks and would like to know how to play it better. Well, I am what u might call one of those rebel Fortress fans. Even though I realize that a lot of people out there like them (and this is a good thing) it seems like the majority of the people still like Dungeon,Rampart or Castle just because there easier more powerful,critter and magic wise. SO basically what I'm asking is what would be the ideal skills and Build order to make Fortress be able to not only compensate for its "weakness" but also kick the other guys BuHooski. I had a few ideas myself but I still wanna hear your opinions and affirmations for either the build order or good skills as well as any other strats u might have I would also like the address for a good stategy site cuz I'm relatively new to heroes (only had it about a month). OK, well here are my ideas.
1. Get Eagle Eye to make up for lack of lvl.4 or higher mage guild
2. Get a town with Lvl. 4 or higher mage guild
3. Well , I read in a strat that u should always build mage guild 1st day but i think S-fly hive isnt a bad idea for 1st turn either(gives u speed plus a few more units with which to claim resources)
4. THis is just something for heroes strats in general, but which is better getting the capitol asap or getting as many creature structures as u can asap.
SO if u have any fortress strats at all or any strats for the game in general ( since I'm realtively new compared to all u veterans who've been playing since heroes 1 !!) pLease drop me a line.
Edit: revived!@
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Even in Chaos there is a certain Order, and in Order, a certain Chaos
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Redstorm_Ent...
Hired Hero
Entertainer
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posted August 15, 2001 02:46 PM |
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Yes but i seem to get very angry when i get fortresse on open maps and closed the only time I "like" playing fortresse is on a random. This is because 1) the town is too slow 2)only 3rd level magic really sucks 3)Wyverns are a disgrace 4)weak archers...Now That is coming from me when I Play open maps. When playing closed maps depending on which ones you play fortresse can be helpful due to the hydra attack. But all in all I do not like playing fortresse I rather stick to the castle (_8^(0)
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AndiAngelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted August 15, 2001 03:58 PM |
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ya flies are a must build day1 with fortress, to speed up all your heroes, fortress rocks on open maps.
i like the town, not my favorite, but im satisfied when i get it on random town choice, you can get all creatures and castle week1, of course you dont build a mage guild, not on open maps too, coz your flies are not there to fight but to collect.
fortress is not a slow town in map moving, its just that the hydras are slow against human, but they got other cool creatures, greater basilisks are best L4 after vamp lords in my opinion, easy better than crusaders, drag flies best L3 cozīyou can use them for so much, mooouuus are just the best, monarchs are at least fast, fly and deal ok damage, and killing chaos against a beastmaster isnt easy often too.
of course tactic, air aund usually water too are a must for fortress.
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Wyvern
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 15, 2001 05:44 PM |
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I can't say that I play always with Fortress but this is not far from the truth. I don't think that I'm a good player, I play the Heroes series for fun, not to prove how strong I am. Anyway, here's what I do when I play with Fortress:
I first build the economic buildings (all of them) and Mage Guild level 1 (level 2 and level 3 I build at the end). Now I have enough resources to recruit units. By the way, I have noticed that the Fortress heroes can't learn Fire Magic (except Adrienne).
I always start with Bron - he is the only hero who starts with a 4 level unit (Basilisk). I don't remember a time when I couldn't get Wisdom, Air Magic, Water Magic or Earth Magic. So the Beastmaster is not weaker than the Witch but has greater combat skills. The defence of the Fortress town is the greatest of all the towns in HoMM 3. After your hero becomes level 10, he becomes interested in Attack, Spell Power and Knowledge as well.
Now about the battle. If I have all the creatures from 1 to 7 level, there are two cases:
A-the opponent is weaker. Then I just attack him with my Dragon Flies and Wyverns et voila!
B-the opponent is not so weak or even strong. Then, if there are archers, I cast Blind, if not, cast something else. After that, if the opponent's units are slow, I wait them to come, cast spells on them and shoot them with the Lizard Warriors. When they reach me, they are much weaker that in the beginning and I should easy kill them. If, however, the enemy has fast strong creatures, it's more difficult. Anyway, I prefer making the Dragon Flies and Wyvern Monarchs wait to sending them to the opponent at the beginning. At the end of the turn they would have more choices who to attack because the enemy units will have approached mine. I always pay attention if there are three enemy units near one another - then I attack them with the Chaos Hydra. At the same time I attack another strong unit with the Basilisk (sometimes I succeed petrifying it). And, by the way, my Basilisks are stronger than usual because Bron has Basilisk specialty. Then I attack the nearest strong unit with the Mighty Gorgons. When all the units have completed their turn, it's time of the Dragon Flies and Wyvern Monarchs to show what they can! Alas, the opponent almost always attacks first my dear Wyvern Monarchs... Great unit! Hey, why would the enemy attack the Wyvern Monarchs first if they are weak? So this is evidence that they aren't!
...Oh, I missed the Gnoll Marauders. Well, I almost don't move them. If there is a weak unit nearby, I use them. They are not weak but their most useful thing is that sometimes the opponent attack them with his strong units.. and thus loses his turn. I definitely don't mind losing 100 Gnoll Marauders instead of 6-7 Wyvern Monarchs.
If I attack a town, it's not so hard - the opponent doesn'usually doesn't stay behind the walls and goes out. And the archers from the towers often shoot my Chaos Hydras. But it's not so easy to kill a Hydra with archer tower, especially when I have a Fisrt Aid Tent...
That's all. I don't think that this is the best strategy but I like it. And it works. If you want something more, ask those who claim that they are "the best". I'm a humble HoMM player.
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grythandril
Famous Hero
who is a Chaotic Wizard
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posted August 15, 2001 08:34 PM |
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Fortress
I used to think that the fortress was a really bad castle and always used to avoid it. But now it is my second favourite town.
Although the lack of getting fourth and higher spells there is always the chance of picking up a hero with a fourth level spell like Xeron or Loynis and using them as you main hero.
For me the best way to build up the fortress is to go for the Mighty gorgons. They are very tough and can cast Death gaze nearly 90% of the time. I try and spilt them into two stacks for better results. Firelfies are next because they are the fastest and almost guarantee the first move on the battlefield. On magical ground they cast weakness to all your opponents creatures instantly.
Basilisk are good for the stone gaze giving you army more time to concentrate on other creatures. but you already know this.
My order would be
Might Gorgons
FireFlies
Basilisks
Hydras
Mighty Wveryns
Heros I would pick
Andra
Merist
Styg
Rosic
Tiva
Have not tried the Beastmasters yet
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Might is Power
Magic is Power
Honor is Power
Power Rules Above All
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Zud
Promising
Famous Hero
box worshipper
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posted August 15, 2001 09:05 PM |
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Edited By: Zud on 15 Aug 2001
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Fortress Thoughts
I'll give you my general strats for Fortress, On higher difficulties or very sparse maps. Building economy might be the first concern...But here goes:
Before day one cut down a forest, you will need the wood  ...oops hehe just a thought tho
I never build mage guild till week 2, I like maps with secondary towns for getting magic books and having a decent guild. I build serpent flies day 1 (wyverns occasionally, but I prefer all my scouts being swift from day 1)
I like to use might heroes with fortress myself, Tazar is fantastic, Alkin too with his Offense and Armor to begin (and Gorgon Specialty) also knights do very well with fortress. wyverns are nice to build day 2 (wood permitting) so you can run around with the starting lizardmen and gnolls with a couple wyverns to have a decent force that can clear mines or take a secondary towns
The next days, I go for basils and then the hydra. you can then put the single hydra on a good might hero and go for some mines, imp caches, dwarven treasuries or arts as long as you are sitting next to a stack that doesnt move first for the opponent, they all just stand there while u kill em. so now we have 2 forces for clearing the map running at the same time very efficient!!
the rest of the week is for the mighty moo's citadel and castle. week 2 varies considerably from this, on rich maps I may go for the silo and upgrading my cows asap, on others it is important to go for your economy (i.e. capitol) asap after this first week.
As for skills, I like Earth, then Air or Water magic, (both if I have the slots) Offense, Armorer, and Logistics. The rest depend on the map. Diplomacy or Pathfinding Usually (this is my favorite build for most any town/hero tho not just fortress specific)
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Winner or Whiner?
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted August 15, 2001 10:40 PM |
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Strong sides of the Fortress:
1. High Defensive Skill
2. Mighty Gorgons really kick ar**
3. Good hero for small maps-> Bron
4. Possibility of building the 6th level dwelling on day 1
Weak sides:
1. Troops generally rather slow or at most medium speed.
2. Only three mage guild levels.
As someone said that Eafle Eye would be powerful skill to the Fortress, I have to say that its false. Eagle Eye rarely a skill which will do you any good. Never take this skill: Eagle Eye, Learning, First Aid and Mysticism.
Try to avoid this skills: Navigation, Sorcery, Intelligence and Artillery.
Always take this skills: Any magic school (with fortress favor Earth and Water over Air and Fire), Tactics, Resistance, Logistics, Wisdom and Ballistics.
If Mighty Gorgons take care of the strong creatures, Hydras should take care of the weaker creatures, Basilisks and Gnolls support Hydras and Gorgons, Fliers take shooters (not Titans necessarily),while Lizardmen shoots targets in range or dispels dangerous clones.
Never attack against significan enemy force right away with your fliers (or atleast without Mass Haste or Mass Prayer), you will see them dead soon. So wait with the flyers and move grunts nearer. Your units can endure much damage thanks to their high defense skills, Dispel or Cure any bothersome spells your opponent have casted. If your opponent have casted a one time spell, cast either Anti-Magic to your Hydras or Gorgons or Mass Stoneskin, Mass Shield or Mass Bless. Counterstrike are a useful spell for your (especially if cast on Hydras), also Clone is nasty spell when you have it (a good reason to conguer a town with strong mage guild).
When besieging a town either cast Earthquake and move your troops in or teleport your Hydras next to shooters.
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ChoaticHyrda
Adventuring Hero
The Man of Many Faces
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posted August 16, 2001 01:21 AM |
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Quote:
Strong sides of the Fortress:
1. High Defensive Skill
2. Mighty Gorgons really kick ar**
3. Good hero for small maps-> Bron
4. Possibility of building the 6th level dwelling on day 1
Weak sides:
1. Troops generally rather slow or at most medium speed.
2. Only three mage guild levels.
As someone said that Eafle Eye would be powerful skill to the Fortress, I have to say that its false. Eagle Eye rarely a skill which will do you any good. Never take this skill: Eagle Eye, Learning, First Aid and Mysticism.
Try to avoid this skills: Navigation, Sorcery, Intelligence and Artillery.
Actually, it was me who posted about eagle eye. The only reason I'm saying this is becuz though I usaully dont get it I actually did on my first single player game and I got more spells on that map than I ever have before with fortress. So i guess the reason I mentioned that and thought it would be good is if ur gonna defeat mutliple lower lvlv heores before fightin' the Final big battle btween u and ur opponents main army. Also I got xpert fire magic for 2 heroes, which is weird but not impossible.
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Even in Chaos there is a certain Order, and in Order, a certain Chaos
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al3x
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 16, 2001 01:21 AM |
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It simply rulez
U can beat any creatures with Hydra if i know the game(on 100% diff only ) and on random map u can easily get a lot of 6th lvl units for free . Well that my opinion 
Ū by Alex
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Defreni
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 01:37 AM |
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And its always funny to walk into a full topia week 3 or 4 with some Chaos-hydraes, supported by 6 stacks of dragon-flies, and then walking out again with ur chaos and 4 relics
Just my 2 cents  )
Defreni
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ugene_de_mue...
Adventuring Hero
Romanii ca brazii
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posted August 16, 2001 04:14 AM |
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Well, I hate Fortress...But I think Bron is a pretty good hero, good defense there. That's the only good side I can find.
And, Defreni, in week 3 or 4 you can attack a Utopia playng whatever town, without losing your 7th level units.
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Give me one year and I'll teach your horse to speak
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Tamanrasset
Hired Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 04:15 AM |
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Well CH, aside from the eagle eye your thoughts were good, so donīt despair. Different mp-games of course differ from each other (except perhaps if you only play a few maps with the same moves all the time...), but generally smaller so called scouts will not go up against your main hero a lot of times - you donīt want to waste valuable time with your main, so you wonīt attack unless theyīre close to your route or important for some reason (like links in a chain or something). And your opponent likely donīt want to waste scouts vs superior forces unless his situation is very bad.
With comp opponents it can differ of course, but usually itīs a much better idea to take comp opponents castles then developing eagle eye.
When it comes to developing money or monsters first, itīs all in the circumstances - map, difficulty you start on and your race should be the three big things if I havenīt forgotten something.
Generally, the more money and resources you have available on the map/from the start, or the smaller the distance between you and your enemy in time there is, the sooner you will want to build monsters. Also, especially with fortress and stronghold you will want to build monsters week one. Generally speaking fortress needs to hit quickly, itīs quite strong the first couple of weeks but might lag a bit behind in the long games due to lack of speed, shooters and magic (though this isnīt always so, of course) - stronghold usually manages better no matter the length of the game (at least when Iīm playing ), but will still want to build behemoths week one because itīs so easy, an advantage not to be overlooked.
Quoting Wyvern: "That's all. I don't think that this is the best strategy but I like it. And it works. If you want something more, ask those who claim that they are "the best". I'm a humble HoMM player."
Very good said, indeed. Itīs too darn easy to, being one of the best, to simply dismiss other peoples strategies just cause you know a way that works better. But what really matters is the pleasure you get out of playing (or points, I guess, if thatīs what you prefer... Problem only arising when you want points enough to destroy for others. Never been my thing, though Iīve always found extra pleasure in winning the games that count more, be it because of special tourney or because meeting ppl I respect for both their playingskills as well as their general attitude.), and there anyones strategy is as potentially valuable. Truth to tell, last 3,5-4 years I havenīt been able to get much pleasure from sp due to the aiīs all too predictable play. Sure, you can get a "challenge" of sorts by making it overwhelmengly powerful from the beginning, with very good mapmakingskills you can even do some more... But not enough that the same strategy wonīt work every time. Yeah, and if I want a good story Iīll either read a good book or play some rpg...
So itīs not all up with being a darn good player.
Tam
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 05:49 AM |
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Fortress tactics and build order...
The three things that Fortress lacks and really feels it are, slow speed of main in battle, 3rd level mage guild, and the lowest amount of creatures that come with starting heroes. Slow speed of creatures in battles can't really be overcome, so you have to maximize your other advantages. Namely your hydra and gorgons. Keep them close with lizardmen or gnolls in between in case of your opponent having beserk. It would be horrible for your gorgons to kill off your own hydras, and it's very easy to happen if you aren't careful. If you have expert water you can teleport, but if you don't get prayer I actually don't recommend water as your heroe's magic if you have a might hero and only one expert magic. Air or fire is usually better, air gives haste and also air shield which due to fortress slow speed is actually useful occasionally- but haste should be the most important. Curse really makes Fortress units durable, and it's very important for your hydras, since almost any opponent will wait his 7th's then attack, retreat, wait, attack- etc unless your MG's get in range first. You might have to relinguish your MGs since any opponent will likely concentrate primarily, use that to your advantage. Wyverns and flies die rather quickly, so try not to use them as your first strike unit if you can avoid it, but that doesn't leave many options... I would use wyverns first since they have poisen which can let the flies kill more, and also the flies +2 speed may be important later on.
The low amount of creatures your hero starts with is really annoying at times, you either must buy wyverns day 2 or else get a ballista hero week 1. I think Artillery skill is extremely useful. It might be only 1 250 HP unit, but it does as much damage as a group of 7th's at expert level in the first month of play. Especially in the early weeks as fortress, a hero with expert artillery and ballista with alot of flies can kill amazing amounts of units- just keep luring the units away if they go to attack ballista with single flies.
Building order, gorgons. They are your main strength on any map with many 7th levels guarding important things. If you get castle built week 1 with gorgons. that is 9 gorgons for week 2, building to mighty on day 2 week 2 and then going with ballista, MG's and 6 groups of flies with haste spell and first aid tent if you can afford or cure spell possibly, but at low power it's pretty worthless. You can actually kill a pack of 7ths with that army if you do it right. With only 9 MG's it would be hard to take utopia then, but it's possible if you get really lucky and 4th level heroes like Jeddiate can be played in the game you are in or it is the lowest level utopia and you also get hydras to take with you. It's important to make sure you lose no more than 1 or 2 MG's, ideally you will lose 0 and that is possible usually unless the 7th's get high morale moves. After getting to MG's build to capitol. I rarely build more than level 1 mage guild in a fortress, i only build that for trying to get haste and so I can build city hall and capitol. Capture another town when you are able.
Fortress heroes... I really recommend the beastmasters, as Zud mentioned, Alkin especially, though Tazar is great, and don't underate a few of the others who each make their particular creature up to par with other towns and therefor do surprising damage. The witches can be powerful if they get good spells, they are probably the 2nd best spellcasters after warlocks, hero like Andra is very nice if you can get a summon spell and high defence!
On a related note, I just wondered as I was writing this if a cloned stack of MG's also kill through death stare? They should I think, but I haven't tried it myself.
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Defreni
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 08:23 AM |
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Well off course u can take a full topia in week 3 or 4 without loosing any 7 level creatures, it just usually means ull loose a bunch of low levels, cept if u have ress. And that was my whole point, if ur fortress u only loose 6 flies, and all u need is cure.
As u cant depend on ress in every game, fortress is for me the best town for clearing out a topia. I rest my case
Defreni
Who especially likes fortress with a nice guild from a secondary town
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 06:44 PM |
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Ichon.....
Yes, clones of mighties does death stare their victims. But also Hydras should be useful to sometimes clone. And that`s one reason why you should take Water Magic. And bless is second reason, because your creatures have wide damage ranges and especially Hydras will profit from it. Also reasons to get water is: summon boat, dispel, weakness, cure, teleport and prayer. So Water should be your primary school (and water spells emerge most often to Fortress). Second school is earth magic. I don`t hopefully need to explain why. Then Air Magic: Haste, Counterstrike (making the hydras devastive), Airshield and ,of course, DD and Fly. Here is ONLY two reasons to get Fire Magic and they are: Curse (which is not as nearly as useful as Bless) and Berserk (you won`t gain much if you have expert Blind or not).
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Undead_Knight
Known Hero
Hero of Chaos
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posted August 16, 2001 11:44 PM |
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Ichon, I think balista is useless if you use it with beastmaster, because even with expert level it will do little damage
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted August 17, 2001 08:38 AM |
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Answer...
Quote:
Ichon, I think balista is useless if you use it with beastmaster, because even with expert level it will do little damage
I said get a ballista hero... start with Gerwulf and work him up to level 5-6 in a couple days, then he is really fast resource gatherer with only dragon flies and ballista whilst your main hero goes to the important map locations. Also, even if you take artillery on a beastmaster it can be very useful. I usualy split army into three as Fortress, 1 ballista with flies, 1 secondary main with hydras, and main with basilisks and a ballista. Just about as effecient as a necro divided with v-lords.
As for why I don't take water unless I find Loynis in my tavern- it's a waste to build up fortress guild, save the resources for a 4th level guild. Air spells and earth spells are most common on average in all towns. Fortress benefits more from haste than slow, because if they are mas slowed, then they are still slower than the enemy if you also mass slow. Fortress needs to kill off enemy 7ths quick with haste and mighty gorgons, and also hit hard with the hydras, I usually used gnolls and lizardmen to stand on dead stacks so enemy can't resurrect. Cure can be useful, along with bless and prayer of course. I don't find as much use for weaknes since your flies cast it anyway and it works more on low level troops which Hydras take care of for Fortress anyway. The units that really hurt Fortress are fast flying 7th's and 6th's and powerful ranged. Air magic deals with those threats better and also if you can get protection from air helps against the lightening your mighty gorgons almost likely to suffer unless its implosion. Except for Curse, fire doesn't do alot for Fortress really, but with that high defense and Curse, well I have seen equal stats heroes with 7 AA's attack some gnoll marauders and only kill 20 because of Curse.
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ChoaticHyrda
Adventuring Hero
The Man of Many Faces
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posted August 17, 2001 01:54 PM |
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AAAhhh, very nice posts guys,keep the info coming.
I also have a question for using youre heroes in general.
My 1st and most obvious strategy,when I started playing was to build up one hero to a super level and give all units to him. However, even though this will give u the best advantage at the very end in the final battle Ive been rethinking that strategy a bit and I think it might be a lil' better to have 2 or possibly 3 heroes that are at least powerful enough to take out small groups or weak groups of monsters and claim resources. Ive noticed that is especially useful on the toh maps because the resources are generally guarded by a decent group of monsters as are the artifacts of course. Even though waiting a while and puttin all ur units on one hero would probably prevent u from losing guys and make ur hero a bit stronger, I've found that with maps I've played with a lot to do (Hourglass, Desert war and Dividied Loyalties, and probably all other toh maps) one hero for all this is just two slow. Well I'd like more thoughts on how to work heroes in a multiplayer game to get the best results. Any hero or town will do but I'd also like tips on good 1st and 2nd week armies for your main, 2ndary and beyond heroes.
THanks for the info so far, and hope Im not asking for too much..If u need me to clarify something i will also I would like to play a good fortress player(like Wyvern or Zud, or anyone else) or someone who knows a good strat, after all doing is the best way to learn.
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Even in Chaos there is a certain Order, and in Order, a certain Chaos
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Redstorm_Ent...
Hired Hero
Entertainer
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posted August 17, 2001 05:44 PM |
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I dont know wh you say avoid Intelligence and Artillery. Artillery is one of the most usefull weapons in this game and intelligence give you more spell points whats bad about that? and also with fortresse I like to take scholar to gamble in case of any of the level4 heroes pop up in tavern then I got the spell.
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Defreni
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 19, 2001 03:05 AM |
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On a TOH-map on 100 or 130% I usually buys out all creatures in town day one, put it all on a Hero and start opening the first mine. Then I buy 7 other heroes and chain all the troops around to open as much as possible. Thats usually my first week army. Works for all towns
Second week army is whats left of first week army combined with the 7. level creatures bought day 1. Most of the times thats enough to open up the rest of the map
Off course this is based on 4 min, on 2 min I usually buy a few less heroes, as I never seem to have enough time to chain 8
Defreni
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