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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted May 01, 2005 05:05 AM |
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food in heroes V
to me, one of the most needed things in heroes is food. titans arent eating gems and beths arent devouring crystals so what are they eating. heres my idea for food
what is it? first off its not a resource. its not needed in towns which means it doesnt affect the game there. its actually a skill like sp or ranged defence. each creature had a food skill which is how much food they have. eg. a beth would have a high food skill while something like efreet would have a zero food skill. each has a magic food skill and a food need skill
creatures needs. each creature has a certain skill which is how much food they need. halflings need a little while bigger creatures like blackies need lots. if this is not met they temporarily have a skill decrease.
how to get it? to get food u must kill food so when a creature is killed you obtain food. when u kill a monster u can chose whether to make it food or leave it and u will see y later. the more creatures u kill and the more food they have, the more u get
what is it used for and the food contol slider? when an army has food, each creature takes how much food it needs plus a certain amount decided by u. if u chose to give it no food then nothing happens but if u chose to give it more, its stats increase. so if u give a squire, say 5 more food, its attack may increase by 1 so its attack becomes 1-4 instead of 1-3. the more food u give he more their abilities raise. if too much food is given say 150% more than usuall, then creatures become sluggish and lose speed.
special meat? some creatures have special meat which is much better than normal meat. u also chose which creatures to give special food. special food has a number of effects. it can double ur attack or give u another ability. special meat is a great thing to have so its very rare. whenu kill a creature with magical meat there is a 5% chance u will get the magical meat
whats the down side? the down side is that certain things can affect food. eg. say u cast poison on some dwarves. if u take the dwarves as food then ur army has a 25% chance to be poisoned. which causes 5% of each stack to be lost. same thing appies with plague. and also if u run out of food creatures skills decrease.
can u look for food? yes. but it takes a whole day and you dont get much
making food. eat town has a special building that makes food like farms or grazing paddock. when a hero come into town they can take meat.
can u kill ur own creatures for food? yes. if u desperatley need it or if u just wanna get rid of some guys u turn them into meat.
does it affect morale? only slightly. if creatures know the yhave alot of food or they ate more food last night then the have increased morale but if the food supply is low then they lose morale
what about the undead?. this doesnt apply to the undead. this means that they never have a stat increase but they also never have a stat decrease.
is there a new skill? yes. here is my take on it:
-main skill:forester= more meat can be gained when a creature is killed.
B:5%
A: 15%
E: 25%
M: 40%
GM: 50%
-side skill: gathering=more meat is gained when searching and it takes less time.
B: 10% more and takes 90% of day to search
A: 20% and takes 80% of day
E: 30% and 70%
M: 40% and 60% GM: 50% and 50%
-side skill: magical gathering= greater % that u will get magical meat(this skill includes normal 5% chance). B: 10%
A: 20%
E: 30%
M: 40%
GM: 50%
-not needed skill: searching= hero is always searching for food but only gets a very small amount.
B: 10% more food found
A: 20% more food found
E: 30% more food found
M: 40% more food found
GM: 50% more food found and 2% chance to find magical food
here is an example to show how it happend in the game
sven has GM forester, GM gathering, GM magical gathering and GM searching.
sven has 20 food and needs 2 food per day to live.
one day some dwarves joined his party so his food needs went up to 10 per day. he went and killed some halflings and got 5 food. sven rested and now has 15 food. sven then had a battle and cast poison. when he won he took the meat and lost 2 dwarves. since he had a lot of meat he gave the dwarves alot of meat. in the next battle the dwarves moved slower. sven then gave the dwarves just a bit more meat and they did great in battle. sven rested and found 10 food the next day. the army fought a titan and found special meat. the special meat was eaten and the dwarves got an extra attack for 2 days. sven then went into a town and took 10 meat and recruited some skeletons. the skeletons didnt need any meat to live. but sven wanted more meat so he searched and found 15 meat. sven the killed the dwarves for food and went on an adventure
hope this explains a bit on how its used
so what do ya think???
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted May 01, 2005 09:05 AM |
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I'm sorry but I do not think this is a good idea.
It adds complexity to the game in places where I would like to have no additional complexity.
Many of the creatures have no need for food: undead, spirits, elementals, mechanical devices.
Morale already has more or less the same effects as you want food to have.
Basically, your idea looks like creature "upkeep", though because of stack sizes with huge amount of monsters this concept doesn't fit the heroes series all that much. Where stack sizes is always 1 like in Age of Wonders the feature ould hold more merit.
It is better to this the way it always have been done in heroes: through adventure map and town locations that give additional movement during a day or grants or takes morale from the army. It doesn't work exactly like food but is close enough.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Fiend_Master
Hired Hero
Master of Hellish Chaos
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posted May 01, 2005 12:01 PM |
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Food is not a good idea for heroes.
Besides, too many creatures can do without it, it would unbalance the game.
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Death is my servant,
it paces with haste,
it cares not for your age,
for your sex, for your race.
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guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
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posted May 02, 2005 10:28 AM |
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If you'll allow me to comment, I always thought that spending of gold resources covered every creature's food needs. Of course, that takes some imagination; thankfully we never had to worry too much about the food part.
-guitarguy
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Cat
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
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posted May 02, 2005 10:37 AM |
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I like the effort put into the idea, as it's always nice to be appreciated.
The problem I have is the skill you say would be required to gain food. If it is not a default skill, then considering the fact that skills never seem to offer themselves when you need them, whole armes would starve. If it is a default, then thatwould take up valuable space. Also, I've I'm attempting to get a combat-worthy hero quickly I'm not going to develop such a skill when I level up, I'll develop combat or tactics or whatever they're gonna have now. Assuming you don't pick up any skills along the way, you'd be about level 14 or 15 before you'd even consider developing the skill, if we're using the heroes IV formula.
Also, what about armies with no hero present, ie, scrounging creature stacks or garrisons or even towns with creatures but no hero.
However, I am notoriously blondewhen it comes to actual gaming, so.. hmm, probably sillyness.
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 Diwethaf Gloau Sylw y Gymreag
http://aozos.com/phpBB2/index.php
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted May 02, 2005 10:45 AM |
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@Djive: u said it would add complexity where u want heroes to be more simple. i just think that heroes should have upkeep to make the game more chalenging to the masters and to add realism. the morale bit can be scratched but i thinks its not that bad
u also said that many creatures could do without it. undead(includes spirits) which i mentioned dont need it so they dont experience the ups and downs, elementals which are only 4 creatures and mechanical which is only several creatures. so in all about 15-20 creatures dont need food which is alright since u wont have an army consisting of undead, elementals and a few mechanical.
@Fiend_Master: as u see only a handfull dont need food and if this handful was 1/4 of the game then my idea isnt bad, heroes would be the bad part
@guitarguy: yes maybe but i always thought it was the cost to train the creature and buy the equipment(swords, armor). also if u pay 20 or so gold for a dwarf, that 20 gold isnt gonna last him 1 month or 2
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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mithomasMIT
Hired Hero
Neversleeper
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posted May 02, 2005 12:14 PM |
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Perhaps there could be a way to introduce the *food-idea*
by making it obligatory for the heroes to visit TAVERNS.
Or replace/add the food to the potion list...
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rapttuz
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 02, 2005 01:29 PM |
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Food would create a new game with upkeep, intresting, but not heroes.
(I remember none satinary creatures -> also a difrent game.)
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted May 02, 2005 06:38 PM |
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I think "food" is a good idea as long as it is regarded as a source of energy, and not only as meat, or wheat, or anything of this sort. You can check an older thread "New resource/building for H5" with some other ideas on this theme.
I think all creatures need a source of energy since none of them are regarded as perpetuum mobile. Even if you consider golems for example as such, they might consume no food but have increased price to balance the game. So you see, it would not be hard to equilibrate the towns on this matter. You can conceive different types of "food requirements" for necros, like fresh brain for zombies, soul chops for wraths, blood (with sulfites) for vamps and so on.
Actually I was regarding this energy requirement as a partial replacement for the castle upgrades, and also as a potential resource structure on the quest map.
This will just mean a minor diversification and not add so much to the complexity or "reality" of the game. it will bring nothing warkraftish in heroes.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
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posted May 02, 2005 07:43 PM |
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Whichever way this food idea is carried, how about we consider it an optional feature that can be restricted to Expert games or appropriately themed tournaments? Or maybe it could be set at the beginning of each game. If people just want to play the standard game unhindered by food resources, they can keep the option set to off. That would be convenient if some dig the food idea while others don't.
I kind of get the idea from Lords of the Realm 2, which had the option of toggling the Advanced Farming and Armies Eating options. Those were largely food-based as well. One thing made weather so unpleasant that your farms wouldn't be as productive. Another allowed armies to absorb precious food from any counties they crossed into. Both made for much harder games, so I left the options off most of the time. 
Even though food specifics make for interesting trivia, how about we make the resource generic so things won't get too complicated as stated before? I only say that because I'm too lazy to keep track of the little things. 
-guitarguy
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted May 02, 2005 07:49 PM |
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I don't want to complicate things too much with the idea of "food", but either you implement it as a regular resource and skill (this thread) or as an upgradable building in the town (the other thread), I'm afraid you can't activate/deactivate it as an option. It has to be there with you all the time. But I see no reason to worry, it acts as regular castle building and regular skill, you only have to make a choice and then it's there for good or worse. I don't think anyone intends to play a continuous micromanagement of army supplies.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted May 03, 2005 07:59 AM |
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i made the food thread to make heroes more realistic and harder for those who have mastered it on champion difficulty. it would make the game more complex but it also means u have to strategise more to chose which hero to get food for and which to send out to attack.
it would also allow for u to starve ur enemy to weaken them, which again add realism and more stratagy
if it was an option i would be for that because i want food and energy to play a part in the heroes series even if some dont. it would also allow for more campaigns where u must gather a certain food amount
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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