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Heroes Community > Heroes 8+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Dungeon
Thread: Dungeon This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV
vlaad
vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted September 26, 2005 08:47 AM

Quote:
As concept art looks too snowtish, but in the game its not at all that bad. Such as her tits peeking from the bra, or the bundle of pubic hair coming out if you look too closely, can easily be overlooked while playing.

* Vlaad goes away to check out the concept art*

Oh, you were kidding... (*sniff sniff*)

(By the way, I'm pretty sure the elves shave! )
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Lord_Pc
Lord_Pc


Promising
Famous Hero
Groin-Grabingly Clever
posted September 26, 2005 09:36 AM

originally posted at GG

-------------------------------

scout (assassin): with no melee pentaly and being ranged, they seem to be a strong level one unit. their appearance looks good overall and they look like a decent assasin, but what do those marks mean???
9/10

blood sister (blood fury): another creature with a good appearance but for those high heels and ears. they also have 2 swords and with the name "blood fury" i am led to believe that these creatures will attack twice in the one turn
8/10

Minotaur Slave (Minotaur Guard): i dont like the fact that they have become slaves and become weaker but despite this they do look strong. 2 axes and muscles that big with no armor suggest that they have a high attack but low defence. i also like that shoulder wound, adds to the slave feel
8/10

Dark Rider (Dark Champion): looks great. has a good solid mount, a sheild and a strong weapon with a 2 square attack??? looks higher than a level 4 so maybe this is the strongest level 4 creature. looks great overall
9/10

Hydra (Deep Hydra): low level and can only attack 3 creatures at once despite 6 heads isnt good IMO. they are also slow and thier appearance isnt anything spectacular
6.5/10

Shadow Witch (Shadow Matriarch): strong mage is always good and that shadow bolt that she seems to be holding looks good aswell but those heels and ears again. and what is she holding in her left hand???
7/10

Shadow Dragon (Black Dragon): and finally we reach the black dragon. looks huge and smoke coming out of the nostrils look like these creatures have a fire attack and hopefully it is a 2 squared one.
9/10

overall, looks like a very strong faction with many strong creatures.
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Da-da-dada-HEY-dada-da-da

Two goldfish were in their tank. One turns to the other and says, 'You man the guns, I'll drive.'

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this_other_guy
this_other_guy


Famous Hero
{0_o} heh...
posted September 26, 2005 10:40 AM

my 2 cents

Scout 9/10
Thats one mean looking lvl 1 unit, almost perfect design

Blood Sister 1.5/10
Sleazy, hideous, boring, uninspiring, and did I mention sleazy? I'd expect to see this costume in the gay and lesbian mardi gras.

Minotoar 6.5/10
Needs abit of waxing in the bikini area lol... looks silly.

Dark Rider 9.5/10
Best creature in Dungeon imo. Very original concept to use in a homm game. That cave lizard is badass, as with the heavily armed dark elf.

Hydra: 7/10
Nice design overall, the legs are abit chuncky though. Lose the necklace, it doesn't suit it.

Shadow Witch: 1/10
Just what we need, another blood sister wannabe. If the folks at Nival are aiming to attract male attention with these units, they failed miserably... very VERY miserably.

Black Dragon: 8/10
A nice generic BD design. Nice...
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1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d

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vlaad
vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted September 26, 2005 07:51 PM
Edited By: vlaad on 26 Sep 2005

I've found a new smiley - Dungeon style!


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Lord_Crusader
Lord_Crusader


Promising
Supreme Hero
UHU!! supreme!
posted September 26, 2005 08:05 PM
Edited By: Lord_Crusader on 26 Sep 2005

haha lol... you must put some horns to the purple smile to make it looks like a minotaour(minotaur slave) and the other one with a fashionist nice boots to make it looks like the shadow witch
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Dig Out Your Soul

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Plexus22
Plexus22


Known Hero
posted September 27, 2005 12:30 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
the fatness of the skeletons

You mean zombies, right? But they are undead peasents - they must be fat!

No, I mean the skeletons, especially the archer. Maybe fat is the wrong word, call it small and a little corpulent.
Maybe they shall represent undead Haven troops, but that's not really an excuse.

I'm afraid their figure, helmet, boot, all serve one purpose: to make them look...cute.
And they do look incredibly cute. Soft toys for little girls.
ARGH



I agree that the Zombies and skeletons in the necro faction are unecessarily fat as well as some of the Haven troops. WHY make them fat?!!! Especially the living haven troops. Who brings an army full of Fat a**es into battle? Why are the peasants fat. Based on the historical medival times that this faction is moddeled on, peasants were generally poor, performed a lot of hard physical labor for a living and did not have a lot of food. Obesity is a modern epedimic not an ancient one

I noticed a lot of people dont like the skull necklace on the hydras. I think its kind of cool. Keep in mind that all the non-elf creatures in this faction are slaves and that the elves dress them up with whatever they like. Any ornamental items on the creatures have to be viewed with the culture and society of the dark elves in mind.


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IrishTitan
IrishTitan


Hired Hero
posted October 03, 2005 10:15 AM

I like the concept art except for the fact that they've put in to many humanoids.  By humanoids I mean the elf chicks.  By elf chicks I mean prostitutes of the underground.  My point is that if you are going to put any humanoid creature into this town at least put in medusas and the harpies!!!

I'd also like to state that I hope (keyword: hope) that there is some sort of ability for the Hydra, where if he gets attacked he'll grow more heads and have a higher attack.  After seeing that there is armor on their heads though I can see that is not a possibility.  If it were than... well that means there is no God! (whispers "in Heroes")
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"Please think twice before posting, rather than posting twice before thinking!"

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benchbreaker
benchbreaker


Hired Hero
516 broken so far
posted October 04, 2005 07:34 PM



the dark rider looks out of porprtions, she's so small. maybe the dark elves are too heavy only children can be carried by the lizard thingys.

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted January 24, 2006 08:59 PM
Edited by Vlaad on 24 Jan 2006

A great Dungeon guide has been posted by Infiltrator in the official forums.

I'll re-post it here, both for our beta testers who might need some help and other members who haven't entered the open beta yet.


Quote:
Dungeon is the Warlock’s town - a Magic oriented faction of Dark Elves. Since we do not have 2 classes per town like in Heroes 3, only one archetype is available and it's reasonable to assume that the hero is a Magic user like in Heroes 2.

Dungeon defines itself with several aspects - their creatures are mostly tough, expensive, but low in numbers. You must be extra cautious when picking your fights, especially early games, because your weekly unit generation is extremely low and a false step might cripple you on the long run. The creatures themselves are very diverse, which I will cover in detail later.

The Warlock’s primary skill is Invocation, which enables him to cast direct damage spells to creatures that are otherwise immune or resistant to them. Of course, the skill does not permit you to do the full spell potential, but if raised to the Mastery level, it will enable you to effectively dispose of, say, other Black Dragons with your spells. Remember this only works for destructive spells (which is the Warlock’s primary school).

Aside from the Invocation, the basic abilities for the Warlock are:

- Dark Ritual - recharges your mana pool completely at the expense of a full day's movement. The Warlock is much more likely to get a Spellpower increase than Knowledge once he levels, so having an ability to Recharge without a well before a tough battle is useful. Also, this Ability unlocks a second ability only available to Warlocks:

- Secrets of Destruction - adds +2 to Knowledge and adds a random level 1 - level 3 Destructive spell that you do not already know in your spellbook. Very useful in the beginning, when you don't have much mana or a level 3 mage guild.

- Empower spells - makes your Destructive spells 50% stronger but doubles the mana cost to cast them. This is a tricky ability that you need to choose at the right time under the right circumstances. If you are beginning and have a small mana pool, you'd best avoid this ability until you are ready to sustain the high cost of the spells. Later in the game it is essential.

- Elemental Vision - enables your hero to see elements associated with creatures. This ability is a requirement for the second special and defining property - Elemental Chains, which are complex and I will elaborate later.

You will find other interesting abilities for Warlocks that are not directly related to Invocation, but are quite useful, for example Lucky Spells. The Luck ability, only accessible by the Warlock, will enable luck rolls to apply on Destructive spells you cast, definitely worth having, or Chaotic Spells (available only to Warlocks and Wizards), branching from the Sorcery skill, will lower the mana cost of spells by 0-50% during the casting of the spells; so after you cast a spell there’s a high chance that it will consume less mana then it requires (you will need to have the normal mana amount to cast the spell regardless).

Having much affinity towards the Destructive magic, it’s natural that I include some information around that school, as you will most likely use it in order to unleash the full potential of the Warlock. Destructive Spells come in 4 elements - Air, Fire, Water and Earth. The only exception is the Magic Missile which acts as a hybrid as for now but as far as I know is intended not to have any association.

Spells are as follows:

Level 1 - Magic Missile
Level 2 - Ice Bolt (Water), Lightning Bolt (Air)
Level 3 - Frost Ring (Water), Fireball (Fire)
Level 4 - Chain Lightning (Air), Meteor Shower (Earth)
Level 5 - Armageddon (Fire), Implosion (Earth)

I'm sure you are familiar with the effects, so I'll go directly onto the abilities that augment these spells. Since every Skill has 3 basic abilities, one element is excluded from any side effects, and it's the element of earth - no abilities will result in any side effects when casting Meteor Shower or Implosion. The abilities that are in however are divided into:

Master of Lightning - improves the Lightning and Chain Lightning Spells, adding a Stun property to anything they hit. What this means is that a unit will be pushed back in the ATB bar on the beginning. As a result, it's more effective against slow units, or units that are about to have their turn.

Master of Ice - improves Ice Bolt and Frost Ring spells, granting Freeze effects to their targets. Freezing basically holds a unit in the ATB bar, in practice it means that it's most effective against fast units, regardless of where in the ATB bar they are, and a bit less effective against slow units.

Master of Fire - improves Fireball and Armageddon spells by making them shatter the armor of the opponents, reducing their defensive values. Just like the Disrupting Ray, each consecutive attack from these spells will lower the defense further.

That's about it, regarding the Hero and the general use of him. However, these are only the basics; you will have much more to learn about the Warlock’s skills and abilities once you have examined all the possible Skills, Abilities and Creatures.

Speaking of Creatures, Dungeon has a very special fellowship of Dark Elves, reptiles and Dragons. The units themselves, as I said, are few in numbers, but strong, the very example of this is the first unit...

The Scout is by far the strongest level 1 unit in the game, boasting a huge 15 hp, but to compensate it, you'll have a very low quantity of them, and they are very expensive in comparison to the other level 1 units. They can either attack with a ranged crossbow-attack (with very limited ammo of 5) or fight into melee mode where they have no penalty. The upgrade, the Assassin, in addition to the Scouts arsenal, has a Poisonous attack, which does damage (based on the number of scouts that applied it) to the unit each time it gets on turn. The poisonous attack occurs 100% of the time, in both ranged and melee combat.

Conclusion: Strong all-around unit that can adapt to any situation.
Strength: Poisonous attack, strong melee.
Weakness: Limited ammo.

The Shadow Witch is an aggressive skirmisher, it's easy to spot the resemblance to the Harpy from Heroes 3, as they are in theory the same unit, except that the Shadow Witch isn't able to fly, but compensates in looks. So basically she walks to an opponent, strikes and goes back to her original place. The upgrade, the Blood Witch, in analogy with the Harpy Hag, attacks and does not allow them to retaliate back, making her an excellent harasser. She is quite weak still, as spells and ranged units will kill her quickly unless you dispose of them via other means.

Conclusion: Offensive oriented unit that deals a lot of damage and acts often.
Strength: No retaliation, very fast, strike and return, dominates slow melee creatures.
Weakness: Very weak vs. ranged or casting enemies, return and strike isn't so useful vs. those foes either.

The Minotaur has undergone perhaps the most cosmetic and balance changes so far. He's a mere level 3 unit; however, his offensive power has been lifted considerably. The non-upgraded minotaur is just another above average level 3 walker who's only bonus is that he will always have a positive morale, no matter the circumstances. The big bonus comes when you introduce the Minotaur King, who gains an extra attack. Two attacks from a Minotaur will prove to be either a serious blow or fatal to most enemies. However, you might want to soak up the retaliation before attacking with the Kings, as they aren't as tough as they used to be.

Conclusion: The Minotaur and Minotaur King are slow creatures that pack a punch, ideally used to intercept fast units that are going for your Scouts, Witches and Matrons.
Strength: The Minotaur, especially the Minotaur King, will deal a big amount of damage and will never cower in battle.
Weakness: Slow units, average damage resistance.

The Raider is a both fast and tough creature, which has many tactical uses. For one, he has a similar charge like the Champions, except it works a little different - instead of increasing its damage, it lowers the enemies defense for each square travelled, effectively making charging more useful vs. units with high defense. The Royal Ravager has another nifty ability - Lizard Bite. Each enemy you strike with your melee units, and is adjacent to the Royal Ravager will be bitten by the Mounted Lizard, equalling as a normal attack without a charge. Thus just placing a Royal Ravager near a unit and not actually attacking, then following up with a Blood Witch attack will result in 2 of your units attacking the enemy without any retaliation.

Conclusion: The Raider and Ravager are the prime Dungeon cavalry units, meant to quickly cross the field and deal with the enemy ranged units.
Strength: Charge attack, Lizard bite, and high mobility.
Weakness: Weak when confronted by tough melee creatures.

The Deep Hydra, once the top unit of the Fortress, now it's back in the dungeon as a level 5 unit. The hydra is truly a gigantic unit now, as it should, being extremely tough for a level 5 unit. It has retained its previous ability - to attack multiple targets without retaliation, but the non upgraded version can only attack 3 opponents at once. However, The Chaos Hydra can attack all enemies around it, and it will regenerate all of its HPs each time her turn comes. Which brings us to the problem - getting to the turn. Hydras are still VERY slow units, and you can count that it will wait for everyone else to do their turn before acting.

Conclusion - an extremely tough and, if properly placed, damaging unit, the Hydra is an imposing creature like it always was.
Strength – Multi-headed attack, no retaliation, regenerating; if you have teleport, extremely deadly.
Weakness - Slow. Very SLOW.

Matron - The Matron is the only caster unit in the Dungeon army, having an alternative Shadow Bolt attack if you need her to act as a ranged unit. She packs 3 spells as of now - Bloodlust, Slow and Disrupting Ray. Slow is her most important spell as it will be cast with maximum efficiency (not mass though) and will delay the creatures’ turns significantly. But the real power comes from the Matriarch - when she gets the Forgetfulness spell in her book. Not only will you cripple the enemies ranged units significantly, but Forgetfulness now lowers the retaliation damage as well, ideal for softening up the first retaliation of an unscratched level 7 creature. The Matriarch also has a chance to cast a random malefic, non-damage spell on any enemy unit struck in close range. However, the chances of casting a stronger spell are less likely than casting a weaker one.

Conclusion: The Matron and Matriarchs are strong ranged and spellcaster units that can augment their allies or weaken their foes.
Strength: Forgetfulness and Slow spells are good choices most of the time, the ranged attack is strong as well. Enemy will hesitate to melee the Matriarch.
Weakness: Bloodlust and especially disrupting ray won't be used as much.

The Deep Dragon. So here we are, at the brink of the Dungeon army - the Mighty Dragons lend aid to the Warlock once again. The Deep Dragon is resistant to all damaging spells, halving all the damage received from them, while retaining the ability to incinerate two foes at once with its breath attack. The Black Dragon, the epitome of the Dungeon army is an extremely tough and damaging unit, immune to all spells. The spell immunity grants him total freedom regarding spells versus all but other Warlocks. A fast unit, he will often be the first to fly over the field and smoke the unfortunate enough to be its victim.

Conclusion: The Dragons haven't changed much gameplay wise - they are still the toughest dungeon units that are useful vs. any unit in any situation.
Strength: Spell resistance, Spell immunity and Breath attack, the Black Dragon is especially fast.
Weakness: Spell immunity will prevent you from resurrecting or buffing the Black Dragon, but it's a price we are used to paying for the other luxuries they offer.

There it is, the complete Dungeon arsenal, a mighty bunch indeed. It's now in your hands to use them, combined with the spells to wreck havoc onto anything that stands in your way. And to do that, you'll need to attack the enemy creatures in a certain order - because doing so will maximize your damage, I'm talking about the elemental chains, the second Warlock ability which will make your creatures deal a multiple of the normal damage amount, read on to find out how this complex ability works...

There have been a lot of questions and arguments around this ability, mostly because it isn't documented; you just have the Ability to detect chains - Elemental Vision, and the corresponding structures in your castle. Apart from that you are left on your own figuring out what and how this racial ability works. I'll try to elaborate here everything I've researched so far.

The Basics:

Every creature has at least one element bound to it in the beginning of the battle; non-upgraded creatures have 1, while the upgraded have 2. During the course of the battle the creatures who possess only one will gain 2 if they are attacked, which I will explain later.

To even see these chains, you need to have the Elemental Vision skill under Invocation. I suggest you get this Ability asap as it boosts the Warlocks' troops damage output greatly, if combined right.

But seeing the elements of creatures doesn't do much by itself, as doing complete chains early game will be tough, in order to do incomplete ones, you need to make the Altar of Elements in your town, which requires a level 1 mage guild. The description says something in the lines of: Supports the elemental chains ability, and allows blowing unfinished chains for 1/4 of damage. What is a complete or incomplete chain? I'll explain soon.

The Practice:

So you've got the first 2-4 unit tiers from the castle, the Altar of Elements built, and the Elemental Vision ability. You are ready to lay down and blow up some chains.

Here's how it works, as short as possible: To build up a chain, you need to attack a creature that has the same element(s) of the attacking creature. When you attack, the element of the attacked creature changes or remains the same accordingly to the attacker, but it gains 1 elemental "combo" point. That means that the chain can be blown for the minimal damage if you attack that creature with one of your creatures who have the opposite elements of the current elements of the attacked creature. Remember that the elements of the creatures you attack are dynamic based on what you've attacked them with earlier so think out thoroughly what are you going to focus on and watch for the ATB bar to know exactly what elemental chains you will be able to stack/blow after you land your current attack.

How do you build up and blow chains? An example: Your Shadow Witch is up on the ATB bar. You look at her elements - Air and Earth. The creature you are attacking has 0 chains built on it and has 2 elements associated with it - Earth and Fire. You attack with the witches and the attacked creatures elements changed as follows - Air and Earth 1 chain built up.

The Witches and the creatures had one element in common - Earth. As long as they share at least one element, the attacked creature will get 1 chain combo built up and it will change elemental alignment to the elements which are associated with the attacking creature.

So the creature has 1 chain built up on it, with the current elements of Air and Earth. How to blow it up? Simple. Attack it with a creature that is associated with Water and Fire - A Minotaur King, for example. He will deal double damage to it, blowing up the creatures elements, setting the combo counter to 0 and associating the creature to his elements (Fire and Water), considering the creature is still alive. If the creature had 2 chains built up and the Minotaur attacked, the damage would have been 3 times stronger, and so on. Note that attacking a creature that has Water and Fire bound to it with an Earth and Air attacker will result in nothing if the creature has no elemental combos built up on it. The attacked creature will also retain its current elements.

That was the demonstration of a complete chain blow. Note that you can also blow a complete chain with attacking a creature with one alignment (i.e. Fire) with a creature that has the opposite (i.e. Water). The problem is that it needs counters apart from the alignment opposites, making it hard to do early game (due to the lack of troops) and impossible to do late game (due to every of your units having 2 elements). But doing the combo I described above deals the same damage, so, for the most of the time, you will do complete chains with 2 elements. What makes an incomplete chain? Simply – non-upgraded creatures. They only possess one element bound to them initially, so if you attack a target with Earth associated to it with anything but Earth or Earth coupled with another element - nothing will happen. If you attack it with Air/Earth it will gain 1 combo point and the elements will shift to Air/Earth. Now, what is considered blowing up incomplete chains out of this - the act of blowing Air/Earth with only Fire or only Water? The chains will be lowered by ¼, or by 1/2 if you built the Altar of Primordial Chaos in your town.

The Rules:

So you now if you didn't know what follows, you'd probably be crying out for the devs for giving the Warlock such a destructive tool. But fear not, Elemental Chains Brake as soon as the creature reaches its turn in the ATB bar, meaning that the elements you stacked up remain, but the creature loses all its combo points. This also means that slowing an attacker or speeding up your troops greatly enhances your probability of building up and blowing chains, and that against fast creatures you will have a hard time building up chains as they will reset it each time their turn comes up.

Spells: Warlocks aren't just bound to destructive spells via Invocation or Empowered Spells, but also elemental chains, as they possess a single element tied to them, capable of acting as a built up or blow up of chains. Of course, the Chain blow will be incomplete since you can only apply one element with the spells. Also even though the spell Magic Missile clearly says in its description it is not elemental based, believe me, it is, as I blown a lot of chains with it. I'd say it's Fire and Air based, from what I've tested so far.

Also, launching an attack on a creature that has chains built on it from a position where another creature has died applies its own elements at a not so clear algorithm to me. Basically, if you can attack a creature with one of your melee attackers, go for a square where there is a corpse of another creature, chances are that you will inflict more damage.

Since this is the Warlock’s ability only, I'll write the elements based around each creature in the town:

Scout: Water
Blood Witch: Air
Minotaur Slave: Fire
Rider: Earth
Deep Hydra: Water
Matron: Earth
Deep Dragon: Fire

With the upgrade, all the creatures retain their original element and gain a new one:

Assassin: Water/Earth
Shadow Witch: Air/Earth
Minotaur King: Fire/Water
Royal Ravager: Earth/Fire
Chaos Hydra: Water/Air
Matriarch: Earth/Air
Black Dragon: Fire/Air

The same pattern is for all the other towns' creatures, they get one element and another one after upgrading, but I feel it's not as needed to post as the Warlock’s units (and it's a pain to gather).

That's about it; I hope I have been informative with the info I have gathered around the Warlock so far. This is not a final guide to a Warlock by any means. You will certainly have a lot of things left over for your own enjoyment to discover. I hope this will help out the uninformed Warlock on how to do the basic steps.

Thanks for reading my guide,

Infiltrator



proofreading and BB code: Vlaad
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Evil_Warrior
Evil_Warrior


Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
posted February 02, 2006 12:05 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 11:09, 06 Jul 2009.

The only strange thing about Dungeon is How shadow witch can be level 6 while deep hydra is only level 5  



Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.

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