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| Thread: What's with all those rules? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted October 11, 2005 03:06 AM |
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What's with all those rules?
No cons. If you want to lower the advantage for castle, allow hf on angels from cons and problem is solved. Sometimes 1 person gets more cons than the other? Break earlier, or chain better.
No hives. Sure you can spare 1 slot in ur army if you are no native fortress. Sometimes 1 person gets more hives than the other? Break earlier, or chain better.
No 4th level main. The ultimate n00b-rule. If my opp would choose a 4th level as main, I already report a win.
No log spec as main. This is designed to favor the already favored Castle on big maps. Ask yourself this: would you rather have Kyrre/Ramp Gunnar/Dung Dessa/strong or 5-10 AA's on Jebus? i.m.o. a runner as main pretty much evens the balance against castle.
I say: no limitations on heroes.
No db. Another pro-castle-rule. Since all u want to do when playing castle is get 40K for an upgarded pog in ur town. And with those AA's u can resurrect all ur pikes and marks until eternity. Well, if I play another town I need to sacrifise my low lvl's to stay up to speed. I'd like to be able to replace them with 3 behes or 5 nagas. so 'no db' should only be no db of native towns.
Castle on big maps is a no-brainer; any rule to favor it more should be abolished.
No lvl 5 or arma in end btl. Magic is a part of the game. You have to manage your mana when ur getting close to ur opp; it's part of a little thing called 'strategy'
Stick to the game-breaking, anti-bug rules guys; all these rules are taking out the random-factor and most of all strategic options.
PS I wont even start about : no hero from prison as main that I saw the other day.
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People used to call me crazy, but now that I'm rich I am excentric.
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted October 11, 2005 04:01 AM |
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I saw this, honestly.
No 5th in final, no red orb, no arma...what the?
People make rules so they arent beaten by what they cant counter. Eg, playing nonsense jebus. One player gets 4 cons, the other none. They lose...henceforth NO CONS!!
Player one has 2 cons but player 2 has 8 hives, those 40-50 wyverns are too hard to handle NO HIVES!!
Player one has castle and 2 cons, but player 2 comes with 14 ancients. "Where did you get those from?" player 1 cries. "from double build" player 2 calmly replies. NO DOUBLE BUILD!!
Player one attacks with strong army + 10 archies...player 2 has superior speed with 5 archies and implodes the stack of 10 before player one can act "NO 5TH LEVEL!!
Player one has castle, player two goes out on a limb and plays dungeon. In final fight player 2 casts an antimagic on his big stack of wyverns in round 1 then armageddons in round 2. NO ARMAGEDDON!!!
The list goes on, but dont you rulemakers understand that every action has a counter? Play the game fully, as it was intended, or at the very least without silly rules that mean little.
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The_Wiz
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 11, 2005 06:22 AM |
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ITS ABOUT TIME!
I was arguing against rules eons ago, and people called me a nub, noob, n00b, retard, etc for doing it. It is good to finally see that some of the more respected and known players are taking a stand against the lame rules that are beginning to permeate the game.
I hope to God that H5 doesn't turn out like that.
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Prometheus
Adventuring Hero
Knight of the Oracle
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posted October 11, 2005 07:22 AM |
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There was time, years ago when these rules did not exist. A handful of very skilled players who liked to play Necro often (their 3k skeles were usually unstoppable) took issue with attack and retreat strategies. So they named it something that would have a negative connotation, "hit and run" and lobbied to have it almost universally outlawed.
And so this became the first rule. No hit and run. And the minds of a generation of heroes players were closed forever to something they would never fully understand as an intended element of strategic recourse.
And the Necro player, but particularly the very skilled Necro player, no longer really had a predator, particularly on closed maps. He flourished. But as things go, there came the day when his tyrannical advantages became too much for others to bear. Could we bring hit and run back? Of course not. We shall ban the Necro class. Ironic nonetheless.
And onward it goes and goes and goes. And people have never tired it seems of making rules against what they lack the will to develop a counteragent for. That would be work and this is a game. Who wants to work?
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(Prometheus is a league commentator and Heroes veteran who is best known as the only player who has actually been dismissed by his own HEROES)
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted October 11, 2005 09:16 AM |
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you all suck 
well j.k. but to be true. in my opinion an outstanding player has to be able to handle both : a "hardcore ruleless game" the same as a "packfull of nonsense rules".
Rules allways affect both sides ( ok not allways some players dont understand this important fact when making rules but tharts a different case ) and so both have the same limitations and possibilities. a player that can only play good without rules is the same n00b like someone who can only play with them.
Motorschaaf
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted October 11, 2005 02:06 PM |
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Quote:
...in my opinion an outstanding player has to be able to handle both : a "hardcore ruleless game" the same as a "packfull of nonsense rules"...
I donīt think thatīs the point here. Sure u could handle both ways, but i think too much rules take away the fun and the randomness of the game. And second, many rules have different meanings for different players.
1. Hit and run
- I heard there do exist different ways to interpret this rule, like "After casting a magic spell, u have to stay at least 3 rounds before u can flee" or "After u hit me (even hand-to-hand!!), u r not allow to flee before i have hit you as well!!"
2. No doublebuild
- Some players say, this means, u can build all BUT a fort (means, u could build a portal of sumoning in dungeon!), others, say u r allowed to build everything refering to money and spells (so even canīt build mana vortex!)
3. No necro
- "You canīt build up a necro town", or "your main shouldnīt have necromancy as secondary skill", or "you are not allowed to use the necromancy skill at all" (What should i do when i find 3 necro heroes in a row in the tavern? No fights with them at all?...If fights with necro scouts are allowed, what to do with the gathered skellies after the fight?)
4. No 4th level as main
- I even heard, some players think itīs a standard rule to NOT level up Alamar to expert scholar to teach resurrection to the real main hero!!??
5. No log spec. as main
- Pyrre is a discussion every second game. Not special but born log. I never understood the problem about that rule. There do exist 3 specialists and 2 more born log heroes. Makes 5. The odds one player gets them all are not very high, so why bann them?? I never ever saw a rule "No offense or armorer spec. hero as main. To be honest, i would fear CragHack much more than Kyrre....but itīs only me...
6. The best rule iīve ever read so far was: "NO view air/earth = considered cheating!"....wtf??????
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Tc_Fear
Famous Hero
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posted October 11, 2005 04:36 PM |
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we donot need no rules
luck favor the bold 
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Nebuka
Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
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posted October 11, 2005 07:04 PM |
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My favorite rules were no slow, haste, offense and armorer.
Strangely enough, I haven't had much offers for game with them.
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Lord_Crusader
Promising
Supreme Hero
UHU!! supreme!
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posted October 11, 2005 07:23 PM |
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I just decided to play heroes online 4 months ago... and this was the main reason of why I decided to leave after several games played...
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Dig Out Your Soul
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CoCoDemon
Adventuring Hero
The pirate of the Baltic sea
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posted October 11, 2005 09:39 PM |
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well some say that diplo , necro , carto..... sux ok well ye they aren't 2 good but anyone can get it lol .so the only rule for mua is no rules!!!
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted October 11, 2005 11:51 PM |
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I dont mind banning legitimate game busters.
Cartographer and Hillfort are gamebusters because of the relative easiness of the guard (last game saw a hf guarded by horde centaur captains...just lol). If a HF guard was lots of golds or somethin like it should be, it woul never get banned (the only issue would be upgrading cons angels)
D/D fly can break the game if found from a scroll, or less so, a tome.
Diplo can break the game if only one player gets it. If playing a game with diplo included, I like to take a diplo hero from the start so I know its not purely a luck issue.
Grail doesnt break the game due to the effort and assiging heroes to look for it, if you spend a week looking for it, thats a week you have lost: more than enough time for me to kill you.
Hero limits are just lol, as Angelito said, why ban Kyrre and not Hack/Taz/Meph who are just as strong? to say nothing of the magic hero. People put that in game without knowing what it means.
It goes on and on, a snowballing effect just like prom said.
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Myctteakyshd
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Arangar
Famous Hero
Weak ranger - lost viking
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posted October 12, 2005 03:40 PM |
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Quote:
There was time, years ago when these rules did not exist. A handful of very skilled players who liked to play Necro often (their 3k skeles were usually unstoppable) took issue with attack and retreat strategies. So they named it something that would have a negative connotation, "hit and run" and lobbied to have it almost universally outlawed.
And so this became the first rule. No hit and run. And the minds of a generation of heroes players were closed forever to something they would never fully understand as an intended element of strategic recourse.
And the Necro player, but particularly the very skilled Necro player, no longer really had a predator, particularly on closed maps. He flourished. But as things go, there came the day when his tyrannical advantages became too much for others to bear. Could we bring hit and run back? Of course not. We shall ban the Necro class. Ironic nonetheless.
And onward it goes and goes and goes. And people have never tired it seems of making rules against what they lack the will to develop a counteragent for. That would be work and this is a game. Who wants to work?
> omg <
Such a nice post, I love it
Btw: There are no such rules in h4, hit-and-run is a lifestyle there 
Blame the map makers!
And make rules only for game/balance-breaking bugs (like GM necro in h4 - vampires ftw)
Cya in h5,
Arangar
retired ranger
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Arangar
Norwegian viking
ranger of the north
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Nebuka
Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
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posted October 13, 2005 01:05 AM |
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Blah.
It seems these days you have to agree on any rule to actually find a game. :/
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted October 13, 2005 04:22 AM |
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Homm5... please save us!
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 13, 2005 05:26 AM |
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If HoMM3 is already old and gives no more satisfaction, and HoMM5 is too young , and IMHO will remain young forever
why not look forward to Wake of Gods?! This NEW game brought so many features to HoMM3 that will take me several pages to list them. And, to not forget, all those features are to check/uncheck, so everyone will find the game he expect to.
After all, to hit and run in WOG will be diggind the unknown, spending ressources (A LOT) allows to change the speed of creatures (as well as other stats)at the appropriate building, so just go to hit a fortress army with archangels to find that hydras got 20 speed.And if you want archangels at speed 30 you will spend a lot of ressources, while the other spent them to put hydras at 450 HP. Its a whole new strategy dig.
Version 3.59 on the way, and the game was never so close to perfection. Give it a try.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 13, 2005 08:13 AM |
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And we should be happy we have only those rules. Because some people (who already gives advice on the beta HoMM5) ask even for more:
(from the beta forums-not details on the game)
Posted by Peteusmax:
"Caster heroes are already disadvantaged by having to walk home to learn spells on big maps - This just makes that worse, and on certain maps it could be ruinous. (On a small map probably no big deal - Or of course if the mapmaker littered the place with wells, lol)"
Answer by Salamandre:
"The common strategy is to dismiss your caster, recruit him in the town with spells, dismiss him again and recruite him where he was before all this. Of course, he must fight some monsters to be dismissed, so planning a strategy where there is always a pack of slow monsters near your towns is the key.
And it cost 5000 gold, but saves a lot of time."
Reanswer by peteusmax:
"lol yes, idiotic exploits like that are needed when the designers do a poor job making the game actually work right. Let's go for a game that makes sense instead, please and thanks."
Answer by Crash:
"This is a remarkable work around. But there are players like me they would never accept this as a balanced and reasonable gameplay. Hire and fire you best master mage, only to gather some spells from different towns? "
scary, heh?
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted October 13, 2005 09:09 PM |
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And that's the problem... most of the beta testers are not hardcore multiplayer types -- more singleplayers and those who administrate more than really play multi to the core.
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Arangar
Famous Hero
Weak ranger - lost viking
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posted October 18, 2005 06:51 PM |
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Quote:
And that's the problem... most of the beta testers are not hardcore multiplayer types -- more singleplayers and those who administrate more than really play multi to the core.
Hopefully Ubi will figure this part out during beta. After a week or two with laughable bug submissions like "the hydra doesn't smell right" or "the hydra should be lvl 7!!!" instead of real testing of game balance, maybe the UBI team will ask for a competent multiplayer team to test their game (Perhaps from toh or some russian site? Russians are good at finding game/balance breaking bugs I hear)
The game shouldn't just look good, it should be strategic and challenging aswell. (hopefully with the "feel" that h2 had!)
Arangar
Retired ranger
waiting for h5
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Arangar
Norwegian viking
ranger of the north
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted October 19, 2005 11:59 AM |
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h3 rules
is simple. h3 overall balance is suck! and has too many tricks still. thats why so many rules. that doesnt mean game is suck, on contrary is great. too much luck can be fun too, depends on what one expects..
Also, greater the map greater the game can be.
Mapmaking was at first stages back then, so h3 was unlucky never to see its maps reach to a peak. I beleive if you h3guys arranged a tourney where a 3rd party(experienced player) edited a random XL,L map so it be satisfyingly even without being mirror, that would be a good bonding among fun, luck and balance without having to be at edges: 'strictly russian desert' or 'hourglass girl-fun'
As for h5,
whatever game will be, as much simplistic or screwy balanced it may be, homm series has one big weapon.
It's Universal Mapmaking Skill(what?) has reached its finest. Sense of balanced, fun game is within many MP players(future mapmakers) or alrdy experienced MP mapmakers.
So, fraid not, bash not let game some space to breath, not suffocate it alrdy to the ashes of its ancestors.
That and that. L8r.
*lo ranger.. you lawful freak you
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Arangar
Famous Hero
Weak ranger - lost viking
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posted October 19, 2005 01:35 PM |
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Yes, the mapmakers made h4 playable (multi that is)
So there is hope! /clap
Arangar
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Arangar
Norwegian viking
ranger of the north
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