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| Thread: Coolest 4. level unit? | |
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Fantasy
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 01, 2005 07:59 PM |
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Poll Question:
Coolest 4. level unit?
Which 4. level unit do you guys think is the coolest?
Personally I like the Phoenix and Hydra very much!  Phoenix can revive themselves, fly very far and attack two creatures at once and Hydra with first strike and cat reflexes and a lot of creatures to attack speaks for it self!
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ratmonky
Famous Hero
Abu Hur Ibn Rashka
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posted December 01, 2005 08:32 PM |
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Voted other.
Faerie Dragons are my favorite unit! They look cute and they are offensive!
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Dies illa, dies irae,
Calamitatis et miseriae.
Requiem aeternum
Dona eis, dona eis Domine.
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted December 01, 2005 08:37 PM |
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I voted Titan, because I think it is the coolest unit despite the fact it is not the strongest. I think it has to do with the fact that they look cool with their shiny armor and their lightning swords. Also, they are the best shooter in the game, and ever since King's Bouty I just love shooting stuff.
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Lord_Crusader
Promising
Supreme Hero
UHU!! supreme!
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posted December 01, 2005 10:06 PM |
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the manthis is my favourite 
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Dig Out Your Soul
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dvader
Adventuring Hero
Dark Lord of the Sith
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posted December 07, 2005 11:25 AM |
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Black Dragon is my level 4 of choice, seeing as how they have been one of the most powerful creatures throughout the whole series.
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"Wipe them out...
All of them."
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted December 07, 2005 05:17 PM |
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best creature, you say, eh?
Yet another thread where we are asked who is the best creature... lol 
Hmmm... While I was browsing through the Lands of Axeoth subforum, I noticed a few threads where the same question was asked. However, those weren't polls And they were long since dead.
Now, getting back truly on-topic, I would like to say a few words.
First, it is very hard to answer such questions as we all like different creatures and there are many creatures (not the only one) which we like ourselves. That is why I find it hard to answer the question without trying to prove my words. I decided to prove them by testing some of the creatures and trying to write the test results, therefore choosing one creature per town.
NB: I never play with might - boring... simply boring... and not interesting
Tests between units...
Tester: TDL
Map: Beyond the Lake
Fight: Plain amount of weekly generated creatures, using whatever abilities it has
NB: D - deal / deals; R - retaliate / retaliates; P - perishes
HAVEN - champions and angels ( CH and AN )
- - 2 AN attack 4 CH
4 CH R -> 88
2 AN D -> 130
- - 4 CH attack 2 AN
4 CH D -> 144
1 AN P
1 AN R -> 93
1 CH P
- - 1 AN resurrects
- - 3 CH attack 2 AN
3 CH D -> 102
1 AN P
2 AN R -> 76
1 CH P
- - 1 AN attacks 2 CH
2 CH R -> 61
1 AN D -> 70
- - 2 CH attacks 1 AN
2 CH D -> 80
1 AN R -> 54
- - 1 AN attacks 2 CH
2 CH R -> 37
1 AN D -> 63
1 CH P
- - 1 CH attacks 1 AN
1 CH D -> 31
1 AN R -> 58
- - 1 AN attacks 1 CH
1 CH R -> 49
1 AN D -> 6
1 AN P
Victorious: Champion
NECROPOLIS - bone dragons and devils ( BN and DV )
- - 2 DV attack 2 BN
2 DV D -> 82
2 BN R -> 88
- - 2 BN attack 2 DV
2 BN D -> 93
- - 2 DV attack 2 BN
2 DV D -> 95
2 BN R -> 88
1 DV P
- - 2 BN attack 1 DV
2 BN D -> 89
- - 1 DV attacks 2 BN
1 DV D -> 37
2 BN R -> 42
1 DV P
Victorious: Bone Dragon
ASYLUM - black dragons and hydras ( BD and HD )
- - 1 BD attack 2 HD
1 BD D -> 129
2 HD R -> 79
- - 2 HD attack 1 BD
2 HD D -> 63
- - 1 BD attack 2 HD
1 BD D -> 158
2 HD R -> 63
1 HD P
- - 1 HD attack 1 BD
1 HD D -> 43
- - 1 BD attack 1 HD
1 BD D -> 130
1 HD R -> 27
- - 1 HD attack 1 BD
1 HD D -> 30
- - 1 BD attack 1 HD
1 BD D -> 39
1 HD R -> 14
1 HD P
Victorious: Black Dragon (strange, but true in this case)
PRESERVE - phoenixes and faerie dragons ( PH and FD )
- - 2 PH move
- - 2 FD attack 2 PH
2 FD D -> 131
- - 2 PH attack 2 FD
2 PH D -> 88
2 FD R -> 46
- - 2 FD attack 2 PH
2 FD D -> 131
1 PH P
- - 1 PH attacks 2 FD
1 PH D -> 50
2 FD R -> 49
- - 2 FD attack 1 PH
1 PH D -> 131
- - 1 PH attacks 2 FD
1 PM D -> 60
2 FD R -> 41
- - 2 FD attack 1 PH
2 FD D -> 131
1 PH P
- - 1 PH reborns
- - 1 PH attacks 2 FD
1 PH D -> 52
2 FD R -> 41
1 FD P
- - 1 FD attacks 1 PH
1 FD D -> 65
- - 1 PH attacks 1 FD
1 PH D -> 45
1 FD R -> 4
1 PH P
Victorious: Faerie Dragon
ACADEMY - dragon golems and titans ( DG and TT )
- - 2 DG move
- - 2 TT attack 2 DG
2 TT D -> 82
- - 2 DG attack 2 TT
2 DG D -> 93
2 TT R -> 77
- - 2 TT attack 2 DG
2 DG R -> 104
2 TT D -> 79
1 DG P
- - 1 DG attacks 2 TT
1 DG D -> 41
1 TT P
1 TT P -> 40
- - 1 TT attacks 1 DG
1 DG R -> 48
1 TT D -> 31
- - 1 DG attacks 1 TT
1 DG D -> 44
1 TT R -> 33
- - 1 TT attacks 1 DG
1 DG R -> 54
1 TT D -> 44
- - 1 DG attacks 1 TT
1 DG D -> 36
1 TT P
Victorious: Dragon Golem
So the winners are: Champion (it depends on the case); Bone Dragons (no comment); Black Dragons (strange); Faerie Dragons (me thinks that if phoenixes reached FD in one turn, everything would change); Dragon Golem (a rough fight, but the winner is...). It is the way it happened. This time these were the BEST.
Secondly, if I was to choose only one of them, I would certainly say "I quit" as I find it simply impossible. But, if I had to choose around five of them, I would certainly list them (this is also affected by my personal likes and dislikes).
NB: mhm... I choose from creatures from not only the original game, but also its expansions and Equilibris (as in Equilibris, some of the creatures have the stats changed).
- Champion (No, not the dark one, although it is much better, but you cannot recruit in town )
- Hydra (ThE_HyDrA... with cat reflexes )
- Devil (They're useful... hero-slayer)
- Phoenix (Dragon Strength is much more useful when cast on them than when you use it on faerie dragons... the lightning is nice, but double damage is better )
- Dragon Golem (First Strike ability... always... I like that)
But if to pick one from the neutral ones, I'd certainly choose dark champion or evil sorceress... tactically, they are great, One has the terror ability, cast speed + bless on it and the you'll deal much more damage. The others have the teleport and can damage the enemies a lot.
*sighs*
Well, if speaking about H4 best creature (ok, I'll choose one), three words usually come from my mouth "Champions, of course!". Even though many of you say they are worthless or they are only good because of their growth, I always contradict. Having champions and crusaders in your army, plus tactics-based hero makes your army partly invincible. Angels have not only the Resurrection abilit, but also better sklls than the champions. However, the champions are more useful:
- 4 champions per week comparing to 2 angels
- champions are cheaper (ore and wood is gotten more easily than crystals)
- total weekly production's health is larger (600 HP over 460 HP)
- skills are lesser, but DAMAGE is NOT lower (24-36 +charge which can double/triple itself)
I could enlist more things here, but I did a test which should prove it. They are equal when fighting each other, but when the champion using hero's GM tactics can walk straight into the ranks of the enemy and the charge and first strike can do wonders (unless someone curses / harms your champs).
Therefore, I clicked other...
That is all for now, but for this time only... Cheers
P.S. do not consider this as an insult, ThE_HyDrA. This is just a little joke...
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Ra2
Adventuring Hero
The good doctor
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posted December 08, 2005 04:32 PM |
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Edited By: Ra2 on 8 Dec 2005
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Quote:
However, the champions are more useful:
- 4 champions per week comparing to 2 angels
- champions are cheaper (ore and wood is gotten more easily than crystals)
- total weekly production's health is larger (600 HP over 460 HP)
- skills are lesser, but DAMAGE is NOT lower (24-36 +charge which can double/triple itself)
you've definitely got a point. most people go for angels because they look cooler or because the champions look 'gay' ... yes laugh all you can but I've actually heard that
I am aware of the fact that champions are better damage-deliverers than angels. However I choose angels over champs because:
-I do not expect angels to deliver the most damage on the battlefield. I rely on the heroes (hypno&berserk) and monks to to that. my basic haven line-up includes 2 heroes (a prophet- with accent on life magic and an illusionist - accent on order magic), monks, pikes and archers. one single stack fodder -1 angel.
why I believe the angel to be better?
-better for cleaning the map. want those tough shooters dealt with elegantly? forgetfullness + angels with a bit of tactics and you're the winner. cast ressurect on themselves at the end of the combat and tada! no casualties
-once you get angels you can forget about casualties.
-want those dragon utopias cleaned up before your opponent does? get the angels in the first row, cast guardian angels on them and charge the dragons before they move. that way you can keep them well away from your troops. NB: guardian angel becomes a HUGE spell with angels. their good stats/good HP makes this spell weigh considerably more than with champs.
-great transport for troops and heroes on the adventure map.
-better for protecting your heroes. put 1 single angel in a group and he can resurect a hero if he gets dead too soon. a clever death mage will cast mass cancellation to soak up imo potions and kill the hero with devils. having the single angel means you can revive the mage / cast mass slow or hypnotize with it / still have the main group of angels to hurt the devils real bad. 2 chaos heroes can also destroy your heroes early in the battle. but not if you have those angels
-life buffs are better with angels than champs. I'm talking about heal/regeneration/martyr/ofcourse guardian angel. Still, I am aware of the fact that Hand of Death/Disintegrate are more of a problem with angels than champs  However this is problem only when facing heroes and not when cleaning the map. so angels still come back on top. plus, I've noticed that, having to rely on necromancy, death heroes get to lvl 5 DM a bit later in the game so it's a chance that they don't even have the spell in the final showdown.
PS:
-oh and I forgot to say that they look way kooler and they don't need food 4 their horses and they probably smell a whole lot better than those horsemen rednecks!!!
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted December 08, 2005 10:04 PM |
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angel vs champs... interesting
Quote:
I am aware of the fact that champions are better damage-deliverers than angels. However I choose angels over champs because:
-I do not expect angels to deliver the most damage on the battlefield. I rely on the heroes and monks to to that. my basic haven line-up includes 2 heroes (a prophet- with accent on life magic and an illusionist - accent on order magic), monks, pikes and archers. one single stack fodder -1 angel.
why I believe the angel to be better?
-better for cleaning the map. want those tough shooters dealt with elegantly? forgetfullness + angels with a bit of tactics and you're the winner. cast ressurect on themselves at the end of the combat and tada! no casualties
-once you get angels you can forget about casualties.
-want those dragon utopias cleaned up before your opponent does? get the angels in the first row, cast guardian angels on them and charge the dragons before they move. that way you can keep them well away from your troops. NB: guardian angel becomes a HUGE spell with angels. their good stats/good HP makes this spell weigh considerably more than with champs.
-great transport for troops and heroes on the adventure map.
-better for protecting your heroes. put 1 single angel in a group and he can resurect a hero if he gets dead too soon. a clever death mage will cast mass cancellation to soak up imo potions and kill the hero with devils. having the single angel means you can revive the mage / cast mass slow or hypnotize with it / still have the main group of angels to hurt the devils real bad. 2 chaos heroes can also destroy your heroes early in the battle. but not if you have those angels
-life buffs are more appropriate with angels than champs. I'm talking about heal/regeneration/martyr/offcourse guardian angel. Still, I am aware of the fact that Hand of Death/Disintegrate are more of a problem with angels than champs However this is problem only when facing heroes and not when cleaning the map. so angels still come back on top. plus, I've noticed that, having to rely on necromancy, death heroes get to lvl 5 DM a bit later in the game so it's a chance that they don't even have the spell in the final showdown.
PS:
-oh and I forgot to say that they look way kooler and they don't need food 4 their horses and they probably smell a whole lot better than those horsemen rednecks!!!
I like when people try to heat a discussion  I like to argue (not angrily )
Well, I have read your post just recently, did not have time earlier. Hmmm... there are some things of which I seem to have a different opinion than you do:
Quote:
I do not expect angels to deliver the most damage on the battlefield. I rely on the heroes and monks to to that. my basic haven line-up includes 2 heroes (a prophet- with accent on life magic and an illusionist - accent on order magic), monks, pikes and archers. one single stack fodder -1 angel.
Hmmm... you do not rely on your main striking force? hmmm... well, I do not do so too as the champions are not my main force. It is my 'extra' unit which is extremely useful with GM tactics - moving over the battlefield and charging in one turn... Yesterday, I carried out a small test... With GM Tactics (+ secondary skills), champions seem to triple their damage when charging . About my main striking force - not heroes (well, a cardinal and a knight, which most of the time also becomes a cardinal), not monks (I do not use them at all; I have equilbris and they're the same - useless!), not pikemen (as ballistae seem to be more than enough) - crusaders. Bless + Guardian Angel + Prayer  Double strike - are especially useful against powerful units - megadrags, for one.
Quote:
-better for cleaning the map. want those tough shooters dealt with elegantly? forgetfullness + angels with a bit of tactics and you're the winner. cast ressurect on themselves at the end of the combat and tada! no casualties
-once you get angels you can forget about casualties.
lol... two cardinals (+15% in resurrection) in army themselves grants me no casualties And as for cleaning the map of shooters - defender, celestial armor + tactics (which I usually upgrade to M, till level 6-10). Also - hero as a bait : heavenly shield, guardian angel (it is a level 4 spell in Equi) - to protect my shooters
Quote:
oh and I forgot to say that they look way kooler and they don't need food 4 their horses and they probably smell a whole lot better than those horsemen rednecks!!!
*sighs*
champions smell, you say? hmmm... that may be, but on the whole, sometimes stench is better than sweet perfum
*cools the anger within itself*
What was it about? Oh yeah, about what I haven't stated in the post :
- well yeah, hand of death is much more of a problem to angels . They seem to die quickly...
- sometimes an angel can do wonders with resurrecting the hero
- lol... angels for transporting creatures... ballistae do not suit angels if that is the case
Anyway, different people have different opinions... I am just stating my strategies, as I doubt I will change your opinion about champs
Cheers and thanks
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Ra2
Adventuring Hero
The good doctor
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posted December 09, 2005 10:29 AM |
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look, what you say makes sense.
while I have a defensive approach to battle (having heroes high on magic, monks and angels), you play offensive and go for tactics/life magic. I play a combination of powerfull curses and mind-influencing spells + the strenght of life creature and you rely on sheer strenght and speed beefed up to the maximum.
I think they both work.
just a few minor observations: the resurection skill is a waste of experience imho. two cardinals? what about scouting? and with ballistae? man you will move too slow. plus you're a bit exposed to thieves. hmmm it could be tricky. and no townportal also? on large and XL maps pathfinding is a must: clear out the map faster/gather experience faster/collect major arties first/strike the enemy by surprise.
and resurection does not grant you NO casualties, just FEWER casualties. resurecting 65% of your troops after a battle is good, but I prefer not losing any in the first place.
you should really try to develop other skills than Nobility for your main heroes, besides from Life. my choices would be tactics and order. chances are that you find them at the university (I build it fast for angels anyway ) . btw: how can you have twon cardinals AND GM tactics?
I usually buy a lord from my town right after I build my angel building, then get it to expert Nobility - learning stones and some battles. and I keep it garrisoned throughout the game as I don't need him for battle.
cheers
PS: the last lines from my previous post were a joke... about the 'koolness' and the 'smell' and the 'rednecks'
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted December 09, 2005 10:53 AM |
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Champions vs. Angels, Other Level 4s
Before you begin a game, it is advisable to tick off all your areas of prospective success, and where your strengths will lie if you choose a certain build-up over another. In the case of Haven, there are two options the player has, depending on the availability of resources and the size of the map.
On a small map, with a shortage of crystal, it is almost impossible to go for Angels, and the player is more or less forced to go with the Pikemen, Monk, Champion line-up. I’m not a big fan of Monks myself, dealing less than half the damage of a Crusader, and having a slower combat speed. Monks are obviously not units that you cannot depend on for heavy-hitting damage, even with precision and bless, they are easily cut down by forgetfulness and other flying units spell the end for monks. These are level 3 creatures that can be neutralised by Sprites for a few, vital turns in combat. Crusaders definitely have the advantage here, especially if you are lucky enough to cast cat reflexes, or make use of Life’s own Prayer and Bless to maximise this damage over two shots. (What some people don’t realise is the Crusader’s damage range is in fact 12 not 6, and when multiplied by the number of Crusaders, 32 damage instead of 20 is a huge difference.
TDL has a point in that Tactics somewhat compensates for the Champion’s weakness in its speed and movement. Champions are definitely more effective in terms of damage, but Angels, after their self-resurrection, have a chance to deal this damage twice. Champions, due to their low HP, lose numbers quickly, and therefore require special attention from spellcasters in terms of guardian angel, martyr, and regeneration to ensure that they continue to deal damage for as long as possible. Due to their higher HP, Angels make greater use of these spells, as already stated, and the
Priests do not have to concentrate on them since they have their own healing mechanism if required. They can focus on other blessings such as Prayer, Mass Bless, and of course the martyr/regeneration combo. Unfortunately of Champions, when the Haven town is forced to advance, Champions are only effective for the first of their attacks, and they have to skip around creatures trying to ‘charge’ to attain maximum damage. Their attack/defense ratings pale in comparison to the Angel, and therefore all of the X ward spells are supremely more efficient when cast on Angels rather than Champions.
In terms of adventure map movement, Angels again have it, and clearing the map early without Ballistae, of course, means that you’re aiming for Angels in the late game, to further capitalise on this bonus. But it also prompts you to discard your Pikemen and Crusaders for a while if your hero is lacking in Tactics. Angels’ extra 5 movement can prove vital when the hero too has a similar movement rate.
I think you can see for yourself what (in my opinion) is the more versatile creature.
As for other creatures, my unbiased choices.
Order: Generally Titans unless against a powerful flying/engaging army. DGs, if tactics is learnt by the hero, can become quite effective (esp. against strong spellcasting armies)
Death: Bone Dragons usually, and even their slower speed cannot let them down against a ranged army due to their skeletal properties. Devils are better for clearing the map, useful if you need to focus on Necromancy.
Chaos: Hydras. No bias involved. With spells such as cat reflexes and teleport, they are essentially very difficult to stop without first dealing severe damage. I might rethink my choice against Order and Nature.
Nature: Generally Phoenix, but Faerie Dragons against the slow-moving Haven or the magically-oriented Academy.
Might: Thunderbirds due to their speed and greater growth rate. If the army is forced to advance through the presence of Cyclopes, Behemoths could be considered. This situation may arise against a Black Dragon-wielding Chaos Army, your own Stronghold due to lack of spells, and the flying half of the Preserve.
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"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”
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PosionOfUndead
Hired Hero
Killing slowly..
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posted March 03, 2006 02:53 PM |
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Quote:
Voted other.
Faerie Dragons are my favorite unit! They look cute and they are offensive!
Hey, I agrees with you. Faerie Dragons is best! If they only had been better in melee..
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Joining the Undead is always better than rotting in a smelly coffin!
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted March 07, 2006 09:47 AM |
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Quote:
Yet another thread where we are asked who is the best creature... lol
...
[long fight logs follow]
First, your fighting skills need some sharpening. The way you handled the fights is not good.
Second, stack vs stack fight gives no information whatsoever of their relative strength, their usefulness.
The level 4 units, for instance, scarcely fight each other at all.
For last but not least, you were asked the coolest creature... not the best!
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Arangar
Famous Hero
Weak ranger - lost viking
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posted March 13, 2006 06:57 PM |
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Note: Too easy to stop non-flying/non-shooting units with quicksand.
Angels + sanctuary > champions any day.
Main fighting force? Your heroes.
Coolest lvl 4 creature? gargantuan
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stachnie
Known Hero
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posted March 14, 2006 11:23 AM |
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Quote:
Coolest lvl 4 creature? gargantuan
Yes, I love them too They are very annoying to fight against (hero-killers).
S.
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ComradeX
Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
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posted March 15, 2006 02:46 PM |
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As always, I go for the Titan (that is my alltime favorite unit). Despite the fact that in HOMM IV the Titan has been weakened (cursed 3DO dragon lovers), it still remains cool and powerfull. 1st of all it just looks cool! it looks mysterious, mythological and mighty (just take a look at those muscles!). 2ndly (I doubt this form expression is grammaticaly correct) the titan is ranged. And last but not least no melee penalty!
So to make a long story short, if it's cool, strong and ranged, what is it? the coolest unit, the Titan!
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The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys
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