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| Thread: Reshuffling the forums...? | |
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted December 18, 2005 07:43 PM |
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Edited By: Vlaad on 18 Dec 2005
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Reshuffling the forums...?
Heroes V is less than three months away. 
Val, Hydra and Lich King have done a great job revamping the old Age of Heroes site. What about the forums?
There are many topics already, but I felt I should open another one to hear everybody's opinion about a possible reorganization. What do you think? Are the Heroes forums fine as they are, or should something be changed?
Keep in mind new members, too!
Obviously, Altar of Wishes could change the name into something more appropriate when H5 finally comes out. What about the threads featuring proposals and wishlists, though?
What about Lands of Axeoth? It's been rather quiet for a long time... On the other hand, Library of Enlightenment still seems to be active, with people still posting interesting tactics. Should these two be merged? Could they, for that matter...?!
What about the game mods...? As for WoG, you can expect no less than 3 NEW towns in 2006! I expect the board to be busy again once the developers release new patches and ask for feedback and bug reports. Furthermore, 3.59 may come out just when everyone grows tired of H5.
Finally, will there be Heroes V mods, too?
The Equilibris team is about to release their (final?) version of the great H4 mod, featuring new artifacts, objects, maps etc. After that, who knows...? It's a pity the community didn't seem to be interested enough. 
On the other hand, HC has become the home of H4CCG. Hopefully, we'll see other card games based on Heroes in the future!
MapHaven will surely attract more posters when mapmakers, both old and new, get hold of the new editor. It's a pity DragonSister has been too busy, but angelito is doing a good job there.  The same goes for ToH, I guess.
What are your feelings on this matter?
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted December 18, 2005 09:13 PM |
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as far as I'm concerned...
I saw/read/skimmed many threads like that, but they were never to be seen lately, nor they were active. As the spirit of the new game surrounds us more and more often, I predict that the forums will be reformed a little bit.
In my opinion, reorganization must be made (I agree with you Vlaad, good thing you noticed it  ). I'd like to discuss this a little bit.
Quote:
Val, Hydra and Lich King have done a great job revamping the old Age of Heroes site. What about the forums?
There are many topics already, but I felt I should open another one to hear everybody's opinion about a possible reorganization. What do you think? Are the Heroes forums fine as they are, or should something be changed?
Keep in mind new members, too!
Yes, they all have done a difficult and thorough job re-creating the Age of Heroes site (or so-to-say, heroesofmightandmagic.com).
As the release of the game is drawing nearer, more and more members join the board. Even though the major part of them seem to be inactive, hardly post anything, I believe the discussions about the game will attract them here and make them post something. Although a new flow of members will join the board, the board will certainly receive a certain amount of spammers - that's what keeps me wondering what will happen in future.
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Obviously, Altar of Wishes could change the name into something more appropriate when H5 finally comes out. What about the threads featuring proposals and wishlists, though?
The description written below the name of Altar says it is a forum for both discussing ideas and discussing about the game itself. However, I do agree that "Altar of Wishes" is not an appropriate name for the forum. I would suggest renaming it into something more or less related to the game, ie.: he Temple of Seven Cities, Tavern of Talonguard etc., so-to-say, something involved in the game (from real to unreal locations). I do not think the purpose of the forum should be changed, although certain changes should be made (I'll speak about them later on).
Quote:
What about Lands of Axeoth? It's been rather quiet for a long time... On the other hand, Library of Enlightenment still seems to be active, with people still posting interesting tactics. Should these two be merged? Could they, for that matter...?!
What about the game mods...? As for WoG, you can expect no less than 3 NEW towns in 2006! I expect the board to be busy again once the developers release new patches and ask for feedback and bug reports. Furthermore, 3.59 may come out just when everyone grows tired of H5.
Finally, will there be Heroes V mods, too?
The Equilibris team is about to release their (final?) version of the great H4 mod, featuring new artifacts, objects, maps etc. After that, who knows...? It's a pity the community didn't seem to be interested enough.
On the other hand, HC has become the home of H4CCG. Hopefully, we'll see other card games based on Heroes in the future!
Here comes the best part. I saw Library of Enlightenment is as active as it has always been and I do doubt if it should be changed. I think people will continue playing H3 even after the release of H5 - many people are sceptical about the game so I have no doubts whether it is going to happen or not. The matter should be solved easily, if not for some other noticeable things.
Lands of Axeoth being one of them. If speaking about Lands of Axeoth, many changes should be made to this forum. I constantly visit this forum to update the table of contents and I see that I can add only one or two threads per session. I do not think the forum should be merged with Library as this will make many misunderstandings among both Library posters/viewers and those of Axeoth. What I propose is to revive those old and popular threads where the discussions were heated, move most (if not all) of the threads in Altar that are about H4 to Lands.
Another thing which totally confuses me is H4 CCG and mods (WoG-included). There are various possibilities when speaking about both of these forums: WoG forum can be left alone or merged with Library. I do not think merging them is necessary - after all, as vlaad said (predicted or deduced) mods for the fifth part of the game will probably be made and with current activity of the forum, which seems to increase and with three new towns (Grove, Forge and Bastion) coming up soon, I don't think these forums should be merged. I would suggest leaving Wake of Gods forum as it is and only renaming it when the mods for Heroes V are about to appear (the forum could be named Modmaker Haven  : Heroes 3.5-5 Mods).
H4 CCG provokes another discussion about the forums. If H5 is going to have CCG/TCG version, the forum should be left alone, with both discussions about H4 and H5 CCG. If not, however, it should be merged with Lands of Axeoth as both forums would be about H4 and the activity of the forum would even double or triple.
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MapHaven will surely attract more posters when mapmakers, both old and new, get hold of the new editor. It's a pity DragonSister has been too busy, but angelito is doing a good job there. The same goes for ToH, I guess.
Well, I doubt that Maphaven is going to be left to rust. I think all the places where you will be able to download maps will flourish, including MapHaven. The forum itself will be brighter as more posts will come up when the members will ask about the editing of maps, map features, maps to download etc.
TOH is a thing that I am least concerned about as I am not playing games online. But I think many players are going to do so (and I may also) and TOH will be as it was a few years ago - active and prospering.
Here are my few cents concerning things Vlaad described. Speaking about what I would like to add or change, I'd talk a little about the re-arrangement of the forums on the board. As I see, the forums are grouped under certain headings - ToH, Heroic, Discussion, Community. I always doubted why does Wake of Gods forum belong under TOH heading as it is more or less not related to those tournaments (or at least, I think that way). This forum should be put among the Heroes Forums. On the other hand, ToH board will be the sole forum put under ToH heading - I cannot decide which way is better, but I presume WoG belongs to Heroes.
Then again, the Tavern does not belong to the Heroes Boards. I would suggest moving Tavern to where Discussion Boards are, as we more or less talk about other things there...
In my opinion, Discussion Boards all go together, Heroes boards, apart from ToH, which is also one, but its purpose is different, also go together and the Community boards are already arranged well. The question is where Bards Glade Pyre - it is neither related to Heroes (well, it is more or less, as it is located in Heroes community, where we gather to talk about them), nor a discussion forum. This is a forum that I couldn't decide where to put. I suggest leaving him be for the time being.
I think more and more discussions like these are going to appear soon - and it is the perfect time for that too. There are more things I would list, but I find it not necessary to discuss them now
*to himself* Let's just wait for what the other are about to say...
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted December 22, 2005 12:41 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad on 22 Dec 2005
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Quote:
as vlaad said (predicted or deduced) mods for the fifth part of the game will probably be made and with current activity of the forum, which seems to increase and with three new towns (Grove, Forge and Bastion) coming up soon, I don't think these forums should be merged. I would suggest leaving Wake of Gods forum as it is and only renaming it when the mods for Heroes V are about to appear
I agree, the merge would create too much confusion.
Aside from new towns for WoG 3.58f, the final 3.59 patch will enable fans to mod the game by themselves in the future...
Speaking of H5 mods, it's been mentioned that the latest sequel shouldn't be hard to mod (at least by people who changed H3 without the source code!). In addition, the latest info from Nival says that the developers might be thinking about introducing the modding tools themselves. However, it is too early to discuss this news, as well as the whole issue. I was going off topic anyway.
Quote:
H4 CCG provokes another discussion about the forums. If H5 is going to have CCG/TCG version, the forum should be left alone, with both discussions about H4 and H5 CCG. If not, however, it should be merged with Lands of Axeoth as both forums would be about H4 and the activity of the forum would even double or triple.
The fact that I disagree aside, but I am afraid it would be impossible. I understand the sponsor wouldn't like the idea...
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Well, I doubt that Maphaven is going to be left to rust. I think all the places where you will be able to download maps will flourish, including MapHaven. The forum itself will be brighter as more posts will come up when the members will ask about the editing of maps, map features, maps to download etc.
Sadly, DragonSister has recently announced she won't have much time to update her site frequently, although I do believe the forum won't suffer much. It can't get worse than it is now anyway!
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I always doubted why does Wake of Gods forum belong under TOH heading as it is more or less not related to those tournaments (or at least, I think that way). This forum should be put among the Heroes Forums. On the other hand, ToH board will be the sole forum put under ToH heading - I cannot decide which way is better, but I presume WoG belongs to Heroes.
I agree, although I don't mind really. It's easy to find it this way - it's almost on top, where it should be.
Quote:
Then again, the Tavern does not belong to the Heroes Boards. I would suggest moving Tavern to where Discussion Boards are, as we more or less talk about other things there...
I agree.
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted December 22, 2005 08:08 PM |
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Thanks for raising the issue. I do expect a large inflow on people on both AOH and HC.
I am thinking of designating:
Library of Enlightenment
HOMM 1-4: Strategy & Technical
Altar of Wishes
Proposals, Wishlists, FanFiction
Something Something Heroes 5
Heroes 5 Impressions and Discussions
Current Lands of Axeoth forum would be removed with threads moved into Library and Altar.
This way we end up with the same amount of boards. Too many is confusing.
As for moving the boards, WOG - we could make a poll about that in the WOG forum. It's in TOH category because it used to be for a WOG tournament.
Tavern - yes, gradually it shifted away from being about HOMM that much, again, we could make a poll.
H4 CTG - it's the official board for the Heroes 4 Card Game, silly man I think it will take time to build up, and I'm hoping for H5 Card Game in the future.
MapHaven - should pick up after H5 comes out.
TOH - will definitely pick up when H5 comes out. Read what Ves said in the AOH and TOH news.
____________
You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted December 24, 2005 12:13 AM |
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two cents
Val said:Quote:
I am thinking of designating:
Library of Enlightenment
HOMM 1-4: Strategy & Technical
{snip}
Current Lands of Axeoth forum would be removed with threads moved into Library and Altar.
This way we end up with the same amount of boards. Too many is confusing.
TDL said:Quote:
I do not think the forum should be merged with Library as this will make many misunderstandings among both Library posters/viewers and those of Axeoth.
Proposed solution: Add "Heroes 4," "Heroes 3," etc. to the Thread Ratings. Then, BEFORE merging the forums, have someone go through Axeoth and designate all threads as H4, and through the Library sorting threads as appropriate. A rating "Heroes 1-4" or something similar could be used for threads that discuss different versions. Post-merge, I suspect people will fall into the habit of promptly identifying the version they're talking about either in the subject heading or in the initial post, as they do now for H2, H1, or King's Bounty.
Main disadvantage, aside from finding someone to take on the initial workload , would be the inability to use ratings like intriguing, important, and informative for the Heroes threads. "Important" and "community" threads are frequently administrative topics unaffected by Heroes versions, so those ratings are still viable. The major loss, IMHO, is "informative," which can point out the most valuable strategy threads. A workaround: Maybe add a Most Recommended section to the Table of Contents?
Speaking of stickies, that's something else to consider. There are five stickies in Axeoth:
*Table of Contents
*QP threads
*Codex of Axeoth (FAQ on H4)
*Heroic Guide (Guide on H4)
*another Table of Contents
Five more stickies in Library:
*Table of Contents
*WW News (tournament)
*List of QPs
*Library Feedback
*Online Gaming Problems (troubleshooting H3 online)
Ten stickies is a lot for one merged forum. Especially when three of the ten are Tables of Content.  I suggest that the QP lists be de-stickied, since QPs are visible next to the threads themselves. The three game info threads can be stickied and given version ratings, since stickiness indicates importance unto itself. No idea how to tackle the challenge of those Tables.
Wow, that's a lot of suggestions for forums I rarely visit anymore. Take these two cents with a pound of salt.
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 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted December 24, 2005 12:34 AM |
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Discussing the re-shuffling again... my opinion again :)
Well, so as to heat and continue the discussion about the mini re-construction - reshuffling - of the forums, I would like to discuss the entitlements if forums were reshuffled and the headings-descriptions under the names. I read Valeriy's post and I do not actually know if I fully agree with the ideas, but as my voice does not count much, I think I cannot add/do much with the whole thing (if it was to happen).
If speaking about what I would like to add/change to both HC forum names and to the Valeriy's post before (as his reply was mostly regarding this thing), I would make a simple suggestion.
As you have said, you are (may be) planning to assemble everything from Heroes of Might and Magic 1 - 4 in Library of Enlightenment. Although I would like to leave the Lands of Axeoth forum as it is, I see that this is impossible due to diminishing inactivity of the forum. So I have to agree with you that they must be all assembled into one forum. However, I think that then it would be hard to distinguish what is what. Only one thread of Table of Contents would be necessary then, though I think these should be left, so as to add new Heroes 4 threads and separate from those of Heroes 3 further on. But the biggest problem of them all deduced so far is that the forum will have more than 100 pages in total and that will certainly be harder to moderate.
Another thing, which I did not actually understand quite well, is about that separation between Altar of Wishes and a forum made entirely for discussions about Heroes 5. I do not understand what would become of it - would all the proposals be kept there (Heroes 1-5) or only of Heroes 5. However, I do agree that in future these should be separated, plus a whole bunch of threads that currently resides in the deepest depths of Altar, forgotten and alone, should be moved either to the Proposals section (as most of them belong there) or to the Library of Enlightenment.
About the entitlements of the forums - the reason that made me post this. I think that due to the changes, it is truly inevitable to change the names. If so, I already have some ideas about how they could be named:
First of all, Library of Enlightenment should be the same, although the description should be changed (I think) into HOMM 1 - 4 : Strategy Discussions, Technical Issues and more...
About the second of them - that is quite hard as there are more than one possibility - Altar and Heroes 5 forum or Heroes 5 Forum and Heroes 1-4 Wishes Altar. Both to be discussed:
Altar and Heroes 5 version being the first - Altar should be named simply Altar of Wishes : HOMM 5 Proposals and Fan Fiction and the Heroes 5 version - well, I cannot think of a logical name yet, but if connected with the fifth part of the game... The Seven Cities or Heroic Alehouse or Talonguard or ??? : Heroes V - Gameplay Discussions and More,
The same issue adressed in another way would only change the fact that EVERYTHING about Heroes 1-4 would be moved to Library (from proposals to discussions about the game itself), Heroes V proposals separated and a new Heroes V Discussion forum created.
Again, a few cents of mine... Just cents... My opinion
P.S. Oh, and before I forgot - about the polls. I think they could be created. They would attract members to post/prove/discuss their opinions among themselves as everyone wants to have a better community. Ain't that right? I hope it is.
P.P.S. I feel drowsy... It is 1h 30min past midnight here, where I live and I certainly need to get some sleep. I think I will double check what I posted and the spelling of the post tomorrow
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted December 24, 2005 12:52 AM |
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Restructure the library is a good idea, but i would change the description then aswell.
NO more trivia and NO more fiction in the library. Just poor strategy and other helping topics, and perhaps the maphaven could be included instead.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted December 24, 2005 09:40 AM |
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Edited by Vlaad on 24 Dec 2005
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Quote:
Just poor strategy
You mean "pure strategy"? LOL
Seriously though, I agree with angelito, although I'd prefer a separate mapmaking forum.
By the way, what about some sort of Archives forum...? Y'know, all forums have one. Certain threads could be locked and moved there.
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted December 24, 2005 10:31 AM |
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My thoughts on this matter seem not to evaporate...
Here I am posting in this thread again... I seem to be quite interested in the upcoming re-shuffling... The board changes every day, significant changes are made at least once a month and with many new things on HC, I really wait for the re-shuffling - another significant step forward... But as for now, let us continue our discussions on this matter.
Hmm... I seem to have overlooked Khaelo's post when I was browsing the thread.
You raised an interesting question about how to distinguish Heroes 3 threads from Heroes 4 by having them rated 'heroes 3', 'heroes 4' etc.. It is a very interesting idea and I seem to agree with it, but the thing is that I, as you, Khaelo, have already noticed, there would be no such things as independent thread ratings. That would not cause much of a fuss, I think, although I myself take a look at the ratings' section when I am browsing the forum. I have a little idea in my mind that makes me ponder again about the reshuffling - rating threads with a 'collocation', ie.: Heroes 3 - Interesting. Heroes 3 - Important. I do not know if it sounds good (though in my opinion it does not), but I think it is one way to get rid of the problems, although it is not so convenient.
Another little idea concerning the same forum-merging and the same thread rating is that there could be an extra 'slot', 'box', 'window' (do not know how you call them) where the version about which it is discussed in the thread is written. I do not actually know if that is such an easy task (on the contrary, it is terribly hard), as it involves a lot of hard work for members as well as moderators and Valeriy, a lot of time and a lot of changes to the board itself (which is why I do not find the idea neither perfect, nor very good, still, one that could solve the problem).
And then about the stickies - I think we could find even more of them if we searched the whole forums. The table of contents seem to create the most problems. I think that the +QP lists should be de-stickied (as Khaelo wrote), but there should be a new one where all the +QPs of the forum's threads are stored. Those de-stickied threads could be updated once in a while so as to help to update the original thread. Same goes for the Table of Contents' threads.
Then again, angelito proposed the idea of having maphaven included in the Library (if I understood him correctly). I seem to disagree with that - with Library and Axeoth already merged into one and the Heroes 5 coming out (new maps etc.), I think that the forums should not be merged. MapHaven Guild seems to partly be the 'official' MapHaven's forum which is why I think that this forum should remain as it is right now.
Another thing that came to my mind when Vlaad mentioned it is the Archives forum. I agree that this is necessary - there are many good threads that are closed and that could go to the Archives where they could be stored. And with the merging of the forums, with the three-in-one-forum table of contents' threads I think it would be EXTREMELY useful. De-stickied ones could be moved there where they would reside - they would not be deleted, but they could be edited (as I think we can edit posts in closed threads, right?) so as to reflect new changes in the forums, help distinguish Heroes 4 threads from Heroes 3 or 2 etc.
Waiting for more opinions on these matters...
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Guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
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posted December 24, 2005 10:43 AM |
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Fan fiction...
So we're proposing to send the fanfics to the Alter of Wishes? I'm just pondering how well the fics will fit into that new environment, particularly since some fics will not pertain to Alter themes. Do you think a separate fan fiction sub-forum will be implimented in the future? Or possibly to another place?
-Guitarguy
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted December 24, 2005 01:34 PM |
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Quote:
Do you think a separate fan fiction sub-forum will be implimented in the future? Or possibly to another place?
I vote for the latter... Bards Glade perhaps?
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted December 24, 2005 02:42 PM |
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Yep, Bard's Glade is perhaps the best place for fanfiction. I fail to see the connection between fanmade stories and wishes for future sequels and expansions.
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Guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
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posted December 24, 2005 03:04 PM |
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If that's the case, I hope they'll change the RPG-only policy in Glade. I'm terrible at writing RPGs, for example, so I'm hoping that's in due course.
-Guitarguy
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted December 24, 2005 11:22 PM |
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Quote:
Are the Heroes forums fine as they are, or should something be changed?
That's the first question that should be answered. There's a saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Obviously there should be a forum for H5, but other than that, is there anything wrong the way it is?
I see it in business all the time. They make changes for the sake of change. They want to make something "better", but forget to ask the questions "What's right about it as it is?" or "Why is the current product successful?". HC is a good board. Can it be better? Probably. But it's still good as it is. Change, no matter how well intentioned and thought out, always has an element of risk.
Having said that, here's my ideas. Virtually all have been suggested already, so I guess I'm more "voting" on them. Basically, I'd be in favor of a few simple, basic changes.
1) Yea, the Tavern should be under Discussion Boards.
2) New H5 forum could take up the Tavern's slot.
3) WOG forum should be kept as separate forum. Ideally under Heroes Boards, but location not really very important.
4) Keep MapHaven as it is and where it is.
5) The Altar: Hmmm, it's tempting to say it will be obsolete after H5 comes out. On the other hand, it's a good place for bug reports, feedback to Ubi after H5 release, and possible future discussion about any expansions Ubi may create. I'd suggest leaving it alone for now and see where it naturally migrates in the future.
6) The Lands: Again, I'd suggest leaving it alone for now. See what kind of activity it gets after H5 release. I don't go there much myself, so don't know how active it is.
I'd like to make a point about the Heroes Boards in general. Even if active posting drops off, that doesn't mean people aren't still *READING* it. HC is a place to ask questions, make informative posts, or simply socialize. But it's also a great place to simply read. Basically, it's a massive strategy guide containing everything the manual left out. The threads already have a viewership count. That's just as important a measure of the board's worth to the community as new post counts.....maybe more important.
7) Ah, the Library.......leave the freakin Library alone. Do you get the impression I have an opinion about that one?
To me the Library is the "core" of HC. TDL mentioned that some people are skeptical about H5. I'm not really a septic. It's just that IMO, HOMM3 is such a good game, it would take a VERY exceptional game to beat it. People play more than one game. I view H5 as a new game to be played *in addition* to H3, not as a replacement.
Val mentioned combining HOMM 1-4 into a single Library. I don't really like the idea. But if it's done I like Khaelo's idea of designating the threads through the use of icons, ratings or ????. But, even with designations, I think the threads will easily go off topic with a mix of H3 and H4 in the same thread....especially among new posters.
With the upcoming release of H5, all we can do is "guess" what the impact on HC will be. Other than the addition of an H5 forum, why not wait several months to see how H5 really does affect it.....take all the guesswork out of it and know for sure?
I sure used a lot of words to say "add H5 forum, move the Tavern, and leave the rest alone".
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted February 23, 2006 08:34 AM |
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update
I like the new table of contents. It's more logical anyway...
What will happen with the Contest subforum, though?
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted February 23, 2006 08:54 AM |
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Yep, did some massive reshuffling. Hope to make everyone think "what the ...? " on their next visit
Guess why the new forum isn't called ICTC?
____________
You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted February 23, 2006 09:02 AM |
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ICTC is out of the Altar? THANK YOU!
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