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| Thread: HOMM 3 Town Ratings |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted March 02, 2006 06:59 PM |
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Edited by Russ on 2 Mar 2006
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Ok, since I am bored I'll make a post about another town (in response to Kreegans thread).
Inferno
Advantages:
1. Devils and efreet sultans can reach the opposite end of the battlefield very easily, so killing shooters is easy.
2. Arch Devils are the 2-nd fastest unit. They will usually allow you to start first.
3. Devils and Arch Devils have no retaliation. If you know what you are doing, you can kill very very big stacks of golems and other slow non-moraling critters.
4. Living creatures can be resurrected into demons by the pit lords to create a major powerstack. If you know what you are doing, with a certain degree of luck you won't lose any fodder in difficult fights because all of it will be transformed into demons.
5. There is a small chance that you'll get armageddon in your mage guild. It can be used with efreet sultans.
(I can't think of any more advantages.)
Disadvantages:
1. Inferno creatures are extremely overpriced.
2. Inferno creatures are the weakest overall.
3. Inferno does not have enough ranged firepower. Uncountered mass slow will destroy it in the final fight.
4. Inferno is very difficult early on. It is the only town that can't take full crypts on day 1 without suffering huge losses or even suiciding (it isn't like it has any crypts in the first place).
5. Inferno is difficult to play later on because it does not have enough shooters and its powerstack is very slow.
6. Devil dwelling has too many prerequisites, making it impossible to build Devils + Castle if you don't start with the gog dwelling.
7. Inferno terrain can not have crypts or leprechauns, making it the poorest land overall.
8. On random maps inferno terrain is often a maze. You won't be able to reach half of your area because of strong wandering stacks blocking it and sometimes you'll need to walk for a week just to get to your wood and ore mines (if they aren't completely blocked).
Heroes:
Heretics suck. Just about any other magic hero can cast 4-6 magic arrows with decent spellpower. Heretics can't do that, which makes small fights and taking towns much harder.
Demoniacs are decent heroes. They have good chances to get logistics, tactics, offense and defense. However, they don't have a good chance to get the earth magic which is essential for fighting the map. Neither do they have a good chance to get the air magic, which will allow you to counter your opponent's mass slow later on.
Maps:
Inferno sucks on small maps, inferno sucks on medium maps and inferno sucks on large maps. As a matter of fact, it will suck on any map that isn't specifically designed to benefit Inferno.
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted March 02, 2006 09:00 PM |
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Edited by csarmi on 2 Mar 2006
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Well, inferno does not suck. Maybe you suck with them and that shows by your listed advantages and disadvantages perfectly.
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted March 02, 2006 09:28 PM |
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Quote:
Well, inferno does not suck. Maybe you suck with them and that shows by your listed advantages and disadvantages perfectly.
Nope. Wanna play Inferno vs Inferno?
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted March 03, 2006 12:52 AM |
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Edited by csarmi on 3 Mar 2006
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I'm not playing anymore. Sorry. With anyone. It's looong, boring and unfun. Especially heroes 3. I might be convinced to play h4, but even that is questionable.
Trust me, you don't wanna play me anyways. I play slowly (I'm not taking anything below unlimited turns) and I am completely out of form.
I'm with you with the castle post, but you went overboard with your inferno one. Your opinion is biased for some reason.
What do you mean by "difficult to play later on because it does not have enough shooters and its powerstack is very slow."?
First, it does not need shooters, second, their powerstacks aren't slow. Pit lord - 7, Efreet Sultans - 13, Arch Devils - 17...
If you wanna fight the map with deamons, that's your problem.
"Devil dwelling has too many prerequisites, making it impossible to build Devils + Castle if you don't start with the gog dwelling."
I would blame the stupid randomness here. Level 2 dwellings should always or never be built at start.
"Inferno creatures are extremely overpriced."
I heard that before, but I find it untrue. Which one is overpriced? Anyhow, it's an exaggeration. Start with overpriced first.
"Inferno creatures are the weakest overall."
What does this sentence mean?
As for the advantages:
Probably you could mention efreet sultans as quite effective map-cleaners (and they come early).
Inferno is all about offense early on. Yes you gotta have good fighting skills, I agree, but you can do most fights the others can. Not entirely without losses, but who cares about a small imps. I find the week 1 inferno army quite nice. Yea, hard to fight archers but only until day 8. Then they all bow down before you.
... and I did fight dwarven treasuries day 3 or naga banks day 6...
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Zsa
Famous Hero
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posted March 03, 2006 01:53 AM |
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You completely missed the point here. If you group #3 and #5 together you will have less writing with the same amount of information, because it is in paragraph form (or at least it was previously).
The point for #9 is NOT that you'll be able to fight throngs of efreeti sultans as best with mass haste and cavaliers, the point was that there are other advantages or possible advantages when you are playing castle that are not listed. Mass haste and cavs + crus allows you to take on larger stacks of "nasty RANGED critters" for example - it seems you already know how you use implosion from your last line of posting, so i won't bother explaining the rest, i'm sure you can figure how to use them in other situations besides fighting a throng of efreet sultans (which is true, they are a very "nasty critter" to fight).
And like I said in my post at the end, it is all very subjective how you rate and what you think is important. That should have signalled to you that i'm posting here my ideas and they might not be the same as yours, even though you are always obviously right.
And you're absolutely right, I'm a newb and I don't know anything about the game so I should play a few games. Maybe you'd like to teach me sometimes, I'd like to learn how to use shooters + mass slow and get bored of losing vs tower with inferno or dungeon. It will definetly be a great learning experience.
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted March 03, 2006 08:29 AM |
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We need a structure to this discussion, otherways we will never have any complete ratings.
Let us start with Castle.
Use these categories to list advantages and disadvantages:
Combat
Town and Map
Heroes
Good for/against
Bad for/against
The last two categories can say whether it's good/bad for poor/rich, closed/open, small/med/large maps, and what towns it is strong/weak against (and a brief note why).
First of all everyone who is involved should post their own version, without arguing. Next step - we will combine all versions together and then we argue 
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted March 03, 2006 10:57 AM |
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Castle:
Combat: Overall, Castle has the strongest units of any town, archangels is the stronges town-recuitable unit, the Archangels. The halberdier are the toughest level 1 unit, but a bit slow for its level, the Castle has two ranged units: Archers and zelots. It's few disadvantages is that zealots are bellow-advantage units, even whit its speed, and Royal griffins lacks in flying support, untill angels.
Town structures: Bad. Castle has weak special uilings, and some of them (if not all) are too expensive. Stable is usefull in the begining for scouting, and the balista in blacksmith is good for damanging units who is guarding mines a extra turn, and ballista can also be usefull later whit a offence specialist. The brotherhood of the sword helps if you have a non-castle hero defending you castle, but is othervise ussles because the most castle heroes starts whit leadership. Their grail is also ussless (+2 morale for all heroes) because of that fact.
Mage guild: Just to level 4 Other spell restrictions: Armageddon, Animate Dead, Bloodlust, Curse, Death Ripple. Missing bloodlust is bad, but its worser to miss all level 5 spells.
Map: Castle is good at any maps, especialy at large maps, where they can use all of their units, whit is good whit such a balanced line-up.
Heroes: Knight and Cleric
Knight: All of them starts whit leadership. They are often townbased, and have specials for raising the stats of Castle agilined troops, but some have specials like: Archery and +2 speed. Navigation is also useful in island maps. Before the Armageddon's Blade expansion come out, a knight named "Lord Haart" where serving castle as a estates specialist, but he died in the restoration wars,and where replaced by Sir Mullich (+2 speed to all units under his command) I had perfer estates speciality. Knights are restricted from Necromancy (good) but can use it if the mapmaker gives it the necromancy skill.
Cleric: Average spellcaster because of Castle limited magic access (only to level 4) with some really useful specials as Bless, Weakness and Prayer spells. Cleric can never learn Necromancy or use it (whit is good), but has no other retrictions (also good).
Good against: Inferno: Castle: Castle outclasses Inferno on every level, except lvls 3 and 5 whit does not make any difference, Castles morale bonuses makes everything worser for inferno as the Castle can attack two times against the overall defence-weak Inferno units.
Bad against: Castle is so well balanced that it matches up well against any town, even if Conflux (and somethimes dungeon) can give Castle a thoght fight whit its superior magic.
Any comments are welcome! 
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted March 03, 2006 11:38 AM |
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Here is my comment: LTFG
Then come back...
Until then, pls refrain from sharing your ideas cause EVERYTHING and yes, I mean EVERYTHING you posted here (these forums) is at best plain wrong, in worse cases, it's misleading as well.
Please!
It's not funny to correct you over and over again...
I am sure you could be a great player if you put some effort into it --
IF
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted March 03, 2006 11:56 AM |
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LFTG? What does you mean with that? 
And can you please specify whats so wrong? 
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FireSpirit
Famous Hero
with warm hands
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posted March 03, 2006 02:33 PM |
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Quote:
So what is your strategy? 
I'll tell you that I concentrate on creatures before money . I'm sure you would soon agree with me after playing online with real people (who play well), because AI is so easy to win with just about any strategy. It's very hard to get a realistic idea about the game if you never play online.
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted March 03, 2006 04:07 PM |
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Edited by Russ on 3 Mar 2006
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Csarmi:
First, it does not need shooters, second, their powerstacks aren't slow. Pit lord - 7, Efreet Sultans - 13, Arch Devils - 17...
So... imagine you are fighting 70 beths. Say, they are split in 7 stacks of 10. Are you going to attack 10 beths with your pit lords? Or parharps you are going to attack them with your efreets? Or maybe you'll try to use arch devils's wait&hit tactic?
Probably you could mention efreet sultans as quite effective map-cleaners (and they come early).
I kinda did, but you chose to ignore it.
If you wanna fight the map with deamons, that's your problem.
No comments. I don't think I should bother to reply to the rest of this post. You've even mentioned it yourself that you are "out of form". You sound like zsa who only plays the game on forums.
Btw, watch this:
Quote:
Maybe you'd like to teach me sometimes, I'd like to learn how to use shooters + mass slow and get bored of losing vs tower with inferno or dungeon. It will definetly be a great learning experience.
So, Zsa, wanna play Tower vs your Inferno or Dungeon? Judjing by your poor attempt at sarcasm you must think you can beat my Tower with np.
(lets see what excuse Zsa comes up with to avoid playing an actual game)
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted March 03, 2006 04:17 PM |
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Edited by csarmi on 3 Mar 2006
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I will hit and run them with my arch devils.
For me, "out of form" means that it would take me forever to play a game precisely, since I haven't played for a while. Besides, I hate the micromanagement in h3, especially chaining and stuff (yes I do them properly, to say, very well, but it's a pain for me anytime I do it).
You should not underestimate me, I'm probably one of the best heroes players you ever met (sorry, I know what I am worth), but I'm terribly lazy and I'll defenitely won't play.
case closed
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted March 03, 2006 04:25 PM |
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Quote:
I will hit and run them with my arch devils.
You do that. What week will it be? Week 3? Lets assume you manage to collect enough gold on Inferno's poor terrain to upgrade them to arch devils. Make 4 arch devils (or 5 if you think that you'll always get the gog dwell in your games) and attack 70 beths without the spirit of oppression. Let me know how well you do. Oh, and if you do win, please let me know the stats/skills you put on your hero and the spells you've used. Try fighting on different terrains too (i.e. sometimes there will be obstacles).
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Zsa
Famous Hero
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posted March 03, 2006 04:41 PM |
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Quote:
Csarmi:
First, it does not need shooters, second, their powerstacks aren't slow. Pit lord - 7, Efreet Sultans - 13, Arch Devils - 17...
So... imagine you are fighting 70 beths. Say, they are split in 7 stacks of 10. Are you going to attack 10 beths with your pit lords? Or parharps you are going to attack them with your efreets? Or maybe you'll try to use arch devils's wait&hit tactic?
Probably you could mention efreet sultans as quite effective map-cleaners (and they come early).
I kinda did, but you chose to ignore it.
If you wanna fight the map with deamons, that's your problem.
No comments. I don't think I should bother to reply to the rest of this post. You've even mentioned it yourself that you are "out of form". You sound like zsa who only plays the game on forums.
Btw, watch this:
Quote:
Maybe you'd like to teach me sometimes, I'd like to learn how to use shooters + mass slow and get bored of losing vs tower with inferno or dungeon. It will definetly be a great learning experience.
So, Zsa, wanna play Tower vs your Inferno or Dungeon? Judjing by your poor attempt at sarcasm you must think you can beat my Tower with np.
(lets see what excuse Zsa comes up with to avoid playing an actual game)
i'll play this saturday if you want, just give me a time. Like I said, I'm eager to learn
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 03, 2006 04:44 PM |
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Why canīt we all do like Val suggested?
Everyone posts HIS town ratings, and afterwards, we discuss them?
If we go on like this, the thread will have 26 pages including 3 town rating postings and 500 criticism postings....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted March 03, 2006 05:09 PM |
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Edited by Russ on 3 Mar 2006
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Quote:
i'll play this saturday if you want, just give me a time. Like I said, I'm eager to learn
Sounds good. I'll be on gamespy on saturday (usually after 11am EST), my name there is russ. What is your user name and when will you be there?
Note: I'll delete this post after the game (unless it can be interpreted as a proof of the points I've made about Inferno's disadvantages ).
@Val and angelito - you want EVERYONE to post their rankings? At least limit it to those that have been ACTIVELY playing HOMM3 ONLINE during the past few years/months. (So that this thread does not get filled with rankings made by those who never played online, or those who played a few online games years ago and don't really remember anytning.)
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lkru33
Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
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posted March 03, 2006 05:17 PM |
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Just curious, have you ever asked Nevermindspy for a game? I know he would be happy to take Inferno vs. anything.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 03, 2006 05:48 PM |
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In my last game on balance with inferno I had a pretty poor map so i didnt manage to build castle week 1. Week 2 I didnt manage to build devils. Week 4 my opponent broke into my area (played tower) and I met him with 167 demons. He didnt even manage to kill 50.
In generel inferno should sacrifice imps, gogs, dogs and everything else from other towns in the first difficult fights they have. After that you will normally have a powerstack of 100-150 demons and they normally kill one stack pr strike. So fighting 70 behemoths is no problem if you have mass slow. If they cant kill one stack pr strike you have the devils to attack first so that the demons can kill the rest of the stack without recieving retaliation.
A joker for inferno is if you can get hold of the healthcombo. If you have that you will make 1 demons from 4 imps.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted March 03, 2006 07:32 PM |
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I've asked spy for a game several times, but he always had a reason for not playing.
Btw, I KNOW that you can kill beths with demons, I was just replying to csarmi. His post suggested that I SHOULD NOT BE USING DEMONS to fight. Apparently I should be using efreets, devils and pits instead!
And, maretti - the fact that someone lost to you doesn't make inferno an all-powerful town What if your opponent played as well as you do?
Demons are very nice, but their speed is a bit low for a powerstack. Marius + speed arties can fix that to some extent though.
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted March 03, 2006 07:36 PM |
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So far out of all online players only Russ posted a castle rating. Would be good if we could have a castle rating (see my post on this page) from a few other online players.
Angelito, if you have a better idea of how to collectively get some ratings done, please propose as in 3 pages we haven't achieved much.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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