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| Thread: Heroes 3 Town Rating -CASTLE- |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted March 29, 2006 03:36 AM |
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Finalising Castle Review
Here's the edited version I've come up with for AOH. This is the final draft so feel free to offer corrections and additions. Thanks to Xarfax111 for the main review that is a base of this text, and to other players for many good additional points that were included.
This is also an example of the clear language that needs to be used in reviews. It must be readable for people who are new to the game / don't understand multiplayer jargon / have medium English.
CASTLE
Advantages:
* Very strong and very fast level 7 creature
* Archangels resurrection ability can reduce or eliminate battle casualties
* Griffin Conversatories on the map are a potential source of extra Angels
* Good mixture of melee fighters and shooters
* Quick to buid up to level 7 dwelling
* Stables gives additional movement to every hero
* Level 6 creatures can be upgraded for free when outside Stables (map location) is available
* Good on water maps due to Shipyard and Lighthouse
* On expert difficulty with poor maps, Marksmen are excellent for clearing the map due to their two shots
Disadvantages:
* Normally doesn't have a full lineup of creatures in multiplayer end fight due to the quick build up to level 7 dwelling
* The speed gap between Archangels and Champions makes Castle armies vulnerable to counterspells cast by the opponent
* Creatures have no magic immunities or resistances
* Slow and average effective starting armies
* Angels and Archangels are quite expensive. Gems were added to the cost by an after-release balancing patch by 3DO. Resource silo does not produce gems, while 6 per week are needed to recruit Archangels.
* No level 5 Mage Guild, mostly "life" oriented spells
* Quite expensive to build compared to other towns
* Grail morale bonus is not very useful as Knights already have Leadership
Best Creatures:
Archangels are fast flyers and good melee fighters +1 morale, + resurrection... enough said. Can be a power stack if Griffin Conversatories are around. The Archangels' resurrection lets you win heavy fights with small losses or no losses at all.
Crusuaders accompany the Archangels. Nice hard double hitting unit with long durability in the fight.
Worst Creatures:
Griffins and Champions would be good melee stacks, but they are often built too late. So with less creatures in the stack they are not really a threat. Having said that, Champions under the Haste spell can charge far and inflict very large damage - up to around 30-45 damage per Champion, which is close to damage of level 7 units.
Pikemen are durable too, but again not enough creature growth and a bit too slow to compete.
Knights:
At least they are might heroes. But leadership (average skill, easily replaceable by artifacts) along with their high probability of getting water magic instead of earth magic, gives them an average rating of 6/10.
Note: Orrin is a MUST for Tower - as soon as he reaches level 20 he DOUBLES the damage of his shooters. NO other hero can do that.
Armageddon's Blade expansion introduces Knight Sir Mullich, who boasts a very good +2 creature speed special ability and starts with 3 attack and 3 defence. He has a very high chance of learning Logistics quickly and so makes an exceptional knight. His speed on and off the battle field helps to clear the map quickly. Tactics skill, Mass Haste spell and speed artifacts can make him extremely powerful, enabling his troops to strike on round one before the opponent can do anything. His Champions can do crazy damage. Most experienced players agree that creature speed is the determining factor in the final battle.
Clerics:
Poor primary and secondary skilling plus no useful special abilities makes this hero class one of the worst classes. Never take them.
Loynis' special ability is not very useful, I don't recommend using him.
Perhaps the only saving grace of Clerics is that they have a significantly higher chance of learning Diplomacy compared to all other hero classes. Cleric Adela even has diplomacy from the start.
Best Playing Conditions:
Good on any map and difficulty. Easy to play. Has an added advantage on water maps, if adjacent to water.
Matches well against any opponent due to a good balance of melee fighters, shooters and flyers.
Rank Compared to Other Towns:
Although this town has its weaknesses, the Archangels do a very good job. Also Castle is very easy to play and competitive on any map. I'll give it 3rd place after Conflux and Necropololis. For me there are almost no differnces in the ranking from place 3 to 9.
Castle doesn't have pronounced strengths or weaknesses, and is generally good all-around. Some people find it boring because of that. Very straight-forward to play and therefore a good choice for beginners who are learning.
Most of this article was written by Xarfax111, with added comments from several other players. Edited by Valeriy.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted March 29, 2006 06:02 AM |
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Man Boo Valiery, i tought you were actually going to contribute on your own experience with Castle 
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted March 29, 2006 07:09 AM |
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Quote:
Man Boo Valiery, i tought you were actually going to contribute on your own experience with Castle
Quote:
Castle doesn't have pronounced strengths or weaknesses, and is generally good all-around. Some people find it boring because of that.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 29, 2006 11:38 AM |
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Sir Mullich dosent start with 3 in attack and defence, he starts with 2 in both. As far as I know he developes like the other knights and does not have a very high chance of getting logistics.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted March 29, 2006 04:18 PM |
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Quote:
Sir Mullich dosent start with 3 in attack and defence, he starts with 2 in both. As far as I know he developes like the other knights and does not have a very high chance of getting logistics.
I agree with that. My experience is else too. Knights dont have a high chance of getting logistics, at least they have lower chances then any other might hero class except the Alchemists.
Beside this point, i think Valeryi made a perfect description of the Castle town.
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Damacon_Ace
Famous Hero
Also known as Nobris Agni
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posted April 13, 2006 06:35 AM |
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THE CASTLE
Advantages:
- Archangels are the best TOWN unit in the game bar none
- Very strong units overall
- Reasonable magic and might
Disadvantages:
- Zealots are fragile
- Awkward building structure - swordsmen are built before griffins/angels don't require cavaliers
- No Level 5 Mage Guild, which can be a handicap at times (no Implosion, DD or fly {the latter two are almost always disabled though})
- Expensive to build and maintain - which is a problem on small maps
Heroes:
- Knights have the lowest chance of getting Earth Magic, which is a handicap. Mullich, Tyris and Lord Haart are the best choices. Clerics are a little better than Knights due to better magic ability. Adela, Caitlin and Loynis shine out.
Best Unit:
ARCHANGEL - need I say more?
Worst Unit:
HALBERDIER - while not a bad unit, it's just too slow.
OVERALL RANKING: 2nd
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No one knows my true nature here...
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted April 13, 2006 07:22 AM |
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Hello there Damacon_Ace!
Personally i admire the courage needed to stand straight and speak your mind on a certain topic.
Lately i have noticed you have a big interess in the town presentation topic. I see you made a post in all of them.
It is true that every opinion is wellcomed,but at the same time, one can tell many things about a poster by the manner in wich he post.
I would have suggested you to make a more detailed analysis of one or 2 towns that you like best(for exemple castle and conflux) including building strategies, economics, tactics and tricks you use on different maps and so on instead of making a short reply in every thread just to cover them all.
Ohh one last thing: IMHO spells are overrrated in Heroes 3, so a mage guild lvl 3 only means no disadvantage really since u can find secondary towns with lvl 5 guild.
In the flux description i spotted a small error:
Quote:
Double phoenix growth is outstandingly powerful and can create unstoppable armies within a few months
i think you mistake months with weeks here, as no game lasts a few months!
Also in the necro review u have made, you slipped another tiny mistake:
Quote:
Vampire Lords with their life drain ability can wreak havoc on an opponent - get about 100 of them and you can easily beat unexpectedly stronger armies (with the right tactics)
I think you clicked wrong here, maybe you wanted to say 10, but i guess 20(week 3 groth) is even better.20 VL will kill about anything on a random map.
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Damacon_Ace
Famous Hero
Also known as Nobris Agni
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posted April 13, 2006 12:47 PM |
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Quote:
Hello there Damacon_Ace!
Personally i admire the courage needed to stand straight and speak your mind on a certain topic.
Lately i have noticed you have a big interess in the town presentation topic. I see you made a post in all of them.
It is true that every opinion is wellcomed,but at the same time, one can tell many things about a poster by the manner in wich he post.
Thanks.
Quote:
I would have suggested you to make a more detailed analysis of one or 2 towns that you like best(for exemple castle and conflux) including building strategies, economics, tactics and tricks you use on different maps and so on instead of making a short reply in every thread just to cover them all.
Well, I had not much time, but I'll tell you about some of my building strategies.
Call me a noob if you want, but I've been playing Heroes for over 7 years now. In Heroes III, I tend to go for the Capitol as soon as possible (to get extra money), however, I try to get higher level creatures as early as possible.
Whatever the town, the building order looks much like this:
Day 1: Town Hall
Day 2: Mage guild Level 1
Day 3: Marketplace
Day 4: Blacksmith
Day 5: City Hall (if you don't have this, you're stuffed)
Day 6: Level 2 Dwelling (level 3 if built)
Day 7: Level 3 Dwelling (level 4 if built), or Citadel
Money and creatures are important.
Quote:
Ohh one last thing: IMHO spells are overrrated in Heroes 3, so a mage guild lvl 3 only means no disadvantage really since u can find secondary towns with lvl 5 guild.
What about Town Portal? What about Prayer? What about Resurrection? What about Implosion? Counterstrike? Clone? Are they awful spells? I use these pretty often when I can.
I tend to choose magical heroes over might ones unless the magic is poor.
Quote:
In the flux description i spotted a small error:
Quote:
Double phoenix growth is outstandingly powerful and can create unstoppable armies within a few months
i think you mistake months with weeks here, as no game lasts a few months!
Let me ask you something: the games that I played (against the AI on 100, 130 or 160%) normally last 7-10 months on average. And I eventually won. With double phoenix growth, capturing Castles, Towers and Dungeons isn't a problem, then I combine armies and forces to defeat the enemy. I find it hard to win without TP, though.
Quote:
Also in the necro review u have made, you slipped another tiny mistake:
Quote:
Vampire Lords with their life drain ability can wreak havoc on an opponent - get about 100 of them and you can easily beat unexpectedly stronger armies (with the right tactics)
I think you clicked wrong here, maybe you wanted to say 10, but i guess 20(week 3 groth) is even better.20 VL will kill about anything on a random map.
Vampire Lords are great, but 10 or 20 won't do against stronger creatures or heroes. I think at least 50 will be a decent size, 100 or more can down almost anything.
Tigris, I understand that you're trying to lecture me on multiplayer and tornament, but simply, not everyone's cut out to be a master tactician (play on 80% anyone? I do sometimes) so I understand your opinion, but this is the way I play and brute strength and superior magic is just how I do it.
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No one knows my true nature here...
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted April 13, 2006 12:57 PM |
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Im not trying to lecture nothing to you.U don't have to be a tactician to play online. Even a noob like me made it there.It's the only way you can get a decent challange when you feel sick and tired of killing the AI.
Online no game lasts normally more than month 2 week 2.
this is the longest but normally week 2-5.
About the VL i can assure you that i killed 120 green dragons with only 20 vampire lords. It's true hero stats were high and i did had Counterstrike, but then again how ogten do you seee 120 greens on a map?
About the spells:
A spell as implosion can very easily be countered. Orb of inhibition or recanter's cowl, whereas no one can stop might!!
Berserk? bah pendant of dispassion or badge of courage.
Town portal? bah try poor man's town portal instead. it will teach you how to chian efectively.Spells are good but overrrated.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 13, 2006 01:48 PM |
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Threads about "Capitol or Creature first?" can be found here and here.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Anil
Known Hero
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posted April 30, 2016 09:10 PM |
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Very strong town. One of town destabilizing in the game. Should be banned in multiplayer games. All Castle units are very powerful. Good movement,speed,leadership,heroes,native terrain. All towns are doomed to lose agains castle.
Town rating; 1 st. (without armageddon)
2 nd. (with armageddon)
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted May 03, 2016 08:51 AM |
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Anil said:
Very strong town. One of town destabilizing in the game. Should be banned in multiplayer games. All Castle units are very powerful. Good movement,speed,leadership,heroes,native terrain. All towns are doomed to lose agains castle.
Town rating; 1 st. (without armageddon)
2 nd. (with armageddon)
And I find it to be one of the worst towns in the game, with only fortress being below it. xD
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted May 03, 2016 09:33 AM |
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How can you place Castle so low? They have awesome creatures, two of which strikes twice, they have good morale, which works well with diplomacy and on watermaps they have shipyard and lighthouse.
Castle is definitely top 3 imo.
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted May 03, 2016 09:46 AM |
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Knight Town in H3 imo is one of best in the game. It is good during early and late game. Consider that Castle can get decent amount of Angels thanks to Griffin Conservatory. With Expert Water Your Army will last forever thanks to Angel Ressurection + Clone Exploit. Leadership maybe is not best skill but atleast they can mix armies. Knights often got Water Magic on 4th level.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted May 03, 2016 11:45 AM |
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phoenix4ever said:
How can you place Castle so low? They have awesome creatures, two of which strikes twice, they have good morale, which works well with diplomacy and on watermaps they have shipyard and lighthouse.
Castle is definitely top 3 imo.
Only Crusaders strike twice. Morale is not really that much of an issue unless one mixes in undead and morale can also be aquired through artifacts. Shipshard and lighthouse are indeed excellent to have on water maps but water map games are one of the rare kinds.
There are many reasons for Castle being so low on my list but these are the main ones:
1. Castle has one of the weakest W1 armies until Angels come into play and if one decides to upgrade the Archer's Tower you lose the chance to get 7-dwelling + castle or 6+7 dwell.
2. The starting army, while good on hit points usually comes in low numbers and since you want to be on the offensive, more numbers = more damage.
3. Lv 5-7 dwelling fights are frustrating because of the speed and without the angel in your army, you are bound to lose troops and without magic to assist you the losses will be high.
4. Knights and Clerics are not much to cheer for.
5. In long games, it can only have a lv 4 magi guild.
6. Suffers from split army and predictable army "syndrome" in the end fight.
Zmudziak22 said:
Knight Town in H3 imo is one of best in the game. It is good during early and late game. Consider that Castle can get decent amount of Angels thanks to Griffin Conservatory. With Expert Water Your Army will last forever thanks to Angel Ressurection + Clone Exploit. Leadership maybe is not best skill but atleast they can mix armies. Knights often got Water Magic on 4th level.
Additional angels from GCs does aid the cause but then you are either stuck with split AAs and As or a big stack of Angels. Not to mention that the enemy can get angels aswell from his GCs.
AA cloning is rather easy to counter. If you pre cast clone then the stack will most likely be struck before it can cast ressurection and if you wait with your casting then you tend to get blinded or have the stack reduced.
Alas this is just my thoughts on this town. We do after all rank the towns in this game differently based on our own experiences and playstyles.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 03, 2016 12:04 PM |
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Castle is very bad town, to start with. People saying its great forget to precise they either a) play custom maps where AI is less smart than a seagull or b) they play user modified templates. Now start your beloved castle on a regular map where you can meet your opponent from day 3 as most of medium non closed maps and tell me how you prevail with pikemen only -remember also your movement speed if not lucky in tavern, while desperately trying to achieve angels before day 7, something about gathering 25k gold + tons of resources.
Now, on modified templates, where everyone plays shy games by fighting AI only during a week or so, then is different. Then in single games castle is your pick, there is no equal to archangels, for various purposes. My two cents.
phoenix4ever said:
which works well with diplomacy and on watermaps they have shipyard and lighthouse.
Castle is definitely top 3 imo.
Oh yeah, remind me when the last MP game with diplo allowed and water size bigger than a lake took place? 2001 perhaps.
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Era II mods and utilities
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ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted May 03, 2016 12:18 PM |
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Salamandre said:
AI is less smart than a thinking seagull
I just had to correct that
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted May 03, 2016 12:40 PM |
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Ebonheart said:
Only Crusaders strike twice. Morale is not really that much of an issue unless one mixes in undead and morale can also be aquired through artifacts. Shipshard and lighthouse are indeed excellent to have on water maps but water map games are one of the rare kinds.
There are many reasons for Castle being so low on my list but these are the main ones:
1. Castle has one of the weakest W1 armies until Angels come into play and if one decides to upgrade the Archer's Tower you lose the chance to get 7-dwelling + castle or 6+7 dwell.
2. The starting army, while good on hit points usually comes in low numbers and since you want to be on the offensive, more numbers = more damage.
3. Lv 5-7 dwelling fights are frustrating because of the speed and without the angel in your army, you are bound to lose troops and without magic to assist you the losses will be high.
4. Knights and Clerics are not much to cheer for.
5. In long games, it can only have a lv 4 magi guild.
6. Suffers from split army and predictable army "syndrome" in the end fight.
Additional angels from GCs does aid the cause but then you are either stuck with split AAs and As or a big stack of Angels. Not to mention that the enemy can get angels aswell from his GCs.
AA cloning is rather easy to counter. If you pre cast clone then the stack will most likely be struck before it can cast ressurection and if you wait with your casting then you tend to get blinded or have the stack reduced.
Alas this is just my thoughts on this town. We do after all rank the towns in this game differently based on our own experiences and playstyles.
Marksmen shoots twice.
Castle "only" has Mage Guild level 4, but what about Stronghold and Fortress? Besides Town Portal, Resurrection, Clone, Prayer, Berserk etc. is perfectly possible for Castle to get.
When defending Castles they don't even need Leadership, they can buy Brotherhood of the Sword and Archangels to almost ensure maximum morale and Marksmen and Crusaders strikes twice, so morale helps Castle a lot, maybe add positive luck to that as well.
@Salamandre I don't know nor care, how most people play in online multiplayer, I'm just saying Castle is good on watermaps and with Diplomacy.
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ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted May 03, 2016 12:58 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Marksmen shoots twice.
Castle "only" has Mage Guild level 4, but what about Stronghold and Fortress? Besides Town Portal, Resurrection, Clone, Prayer, Berserk etc. is perfectly possible for Castle to get.
When defending Castles they don't even need Leadership, they can buy Brotherhood of the Sword and Archangels to almost ensure maximum morale and Marksmen and Crusaders strikes twice, so morale helps Castle a lot, maybe add positive luck to that as well.
@Salamandre I don't know nor care, how most people play in online multiplayer, I'm just saying Castle is good on watermaps and with Diplomacy.
Correct marksmen shoots twice, not strikes twice. A strike is melee and a shot is ranged.
Stronghold/Fortress only needs one spell which can be considered crucial to have and that spell is Haste.
If you allow Town Portal in an online game then DD/fly often come along with it. Castle can get good lv 4 spells but does not work that good with a lot of them like for example Berserk or Clone and some lv 4 spells like ressurection has its uses vs the map, but plays a smaller role in an end fight.
"When defending Castles" - IF you would have a multiplayer game come down to a siege then the player attacking the town is brainless, one of the first rules regardless of what faction and map you play is to never engage another online player is a siege battle.
Now I will rest the case here as you are obviously refering to non multiplayer games and there, it is suffice to say that all the towns are overpowered because anything can beat the AI.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted May 03, 2016 01:26 PM |
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You knew what I meant with strikes twice. 
The thread is'nt called "Town rating - Castle in relation to online multiplayer", so why should I assume all of those strange rules are in effect?
Most of those rules are pretty stupid imo, no sieges is very bad for Fortress, as defending is what they do best, Stonghold on the other hand excel at sieging.
Diplomacy banned I understand, at least on random maps, Diplomacy can be perfectly fine if controlled by the map maker.
I see no reason to not play on water maps, gives a "bigger game" with more possibilities.
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