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DagothGares
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No gods or kings
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posted June 05, 2009 07:28 PM |
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Quote:
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I didn't mean that. I meant that in capitalism as a whole. I don't use correlations with area but the whole of US for instance. Of course some things are bound to be a lot 'poorer' (metaphorically) than others under capitalism.
That's not true at all. And if you're suggesting that the South is an "exploited" area - at least most "exploited" areas produce something useful. What does the South produce besides hillbillies?
Grain and corn?
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mvassilev
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posted June 05, 2009 08:36 PM |
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Hmm... not really. It used to produce cotton. I'm not sure how much it produces any more, though.
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted June 05, 2009 10:02 PM |
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Again, that's not what I meant. Since this is off-topic I will only summarize it here because I don't like to be misunderstood 
I'm not analyzing LOCATION. What I said, that capitalism is at fault, meant that "in capitalism, it's always going to be this imbalance." It just happened that the south is 'more poor' (again, metaphorically speaking).
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mvassilev
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posted June 05, 2009 11:03 PM |
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First, you're wrong. Differences in wealth are not necessary for capitalism to function. Second, why would this poverty be concentrated in one place?
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TheDeath
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posted June 06, 2009 12:03 AM |
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Differences in wealth are not necessary for capitalism to function.
No, but it's a side-effect.
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Second, why would this poverty be concentrated in one place?
if it wasn't you would be asking why it's not concentrated in one place.
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mvassilev
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posted June 06, 2009 12:29 AM |
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if it wasn't you would be asking why it's not concentrated in one place.
So it's entirely coincidental that it would be concentrated in the most religious region of the country. Right?
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TheDeath
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posted June 06, 2009 12:34 AM |
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Could be the opposite -- that they're "very religious" because of that. Or, simply happens to be. Of course, social problems are more complex than that. (the reason I don't detail, this is getting somewhat off topic  )
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stankelbenet
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posted June 06, 2009 04:06 PM |
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During the civil war the south lost. I know it's been a while since(around 150 years), but the destruction of the southern economy was immerse. The whole infrastructure was wiped out, and the labor force was decreased dramatically(slavery was abolished and all the young men went to war and died). A lot of the fields were burned down too. After that the south was the poor part of USA and it has been until now. It could'nt keep up with the development the other states had and thereby remained poor.
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Could be the opposite -- that they're "very religious" because of that
I would also guess so.
Religion is not meant for oppressing people but to give them hope. It's not some medievil institution founded by evil( ). I'm an atheist but I always protect religion as well as science.
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mvassilev
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posted June 06, 2009 04:43 PM |
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But the South was poorer than the North even before the Civil War.
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Mytical
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posted June 07, 2009 06:01 AM |
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And the discussion about economics of north and south has what to do with the thread? Just curious.
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mvassilev
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posted June 07, 2009 06:06 AM |
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del_diablo
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posted June 07, 2009 05:27 PM |
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And the discussion about economics of north and south has what to do with the thread? Just curious.
The south is highly religious. And they also got problems. The discussion is on: "What connections is there?"
I am thinking of the lines of:
1. It was bad there
2. So people sought an answer
3. Which was Christianity?
4. Which lead a propaganda on "condoms and sex education is bad"
5. Which got trough
6. Which again lead to the abortion and pregnancy rates.
Connection? Kind of, but there is no direct connection betwhen the bad situation down there and high child error rates(abortion and teen pregnancy). Religion is the connection there. Its the link, but the above got nothing to do with each other.
Edit: This leads to the thought of: "Christianity is bad, or got connections to bad", which itself is a flamewar it already has lost. Which gets to the issue at hand, the name of this tread.
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Corribus
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posted June 12, 2009 10:29 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 22:29, 12 Jun 2009.
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*BUMP*
I recently rediscovered this passage from one of my favorite novels, East of Eden (Steinbeck). I always liked it and thought I would share it with you.
"The church and the snowhouse arrived in the Far West simultaneously. And each would have been horrified to think it was a different facet of the same thing. But surely they were both intended to accomplish the same thing: the singing, the devotion, the poetry of the churches took a man out of his bleakness for a time, and so did the brothels. The sectarian churches came in swinging, cocky and loud and confident. Ignoring the laws of debt and repayment, they built churches which couldn't be paid for in a hundred years. The sects fought evil, true enough, but they also fought each other with a fine lustiness. They fought at the turn of a doctrine. Each happily believed all the others were bound for hell in a basket. And each for all its bumptiousness brought with it the same thing: the Scripture on which our ethics, our art and poetry and our relationships are built. It took a smart man to know where the difference lay between the sects, but anyone could see what they had in common. And they brought music - maybe not the best, but the form and sense of it. And they brought conscience, or, rather, nudged the dozing conscience. They were not pure, but they had a potential of purity, like a soiled white shirt. And any man could make something pretty fine of it within himself. True enough, the Reverend Billing, when they caught up with him, turned out to be a thief, an adulterer, a libertine, and a zoophilist, but that didn't change the fact that he had communicated some good things to a great number of receptive people. Billing went to jail, but no one ever arrested the good things he had released. And it doesn't matter much that his motive was impure. He used good material and some of it stuck. I use Billing only as an outrageous example. The honest preachers had energy and go. They fought the devil, no holds barred, boots and eye-gouging permitted. You might get the idea that they howled truth and beauty the way a seal bites out the National Anthem on a row of circus horns. But some of the truth and beauty remained, and the anthem was recognizable."
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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JollyJoker
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posted June 12, 2009 11:03 PM |
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Strange that you quote that. As soon as I read the first sentence
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The church and the snowhouse arrived in the Far West simultaneously.
I remembered it. As a boy I basically did nothing else than reading when I wasn't outside, and at about age 10 there was just no way round the huge supply of books my mum had (who was and still is an AVID reader). The books I really WANTED to read more than anything else were Ian Fleming's Bond novels. However, I wasn't allowed to read those. East of Eden was a book I was allowed to read quite early (for want of more "harmless" stuff) and I don't think I even halfway understood the book.
But I read it, even though I can't remember much now, and reading stuff CERTAINLY has helped me to develop distance to religion which was not that easy, being a catholic boy. That quote was just one puzzle piece that helped de-mythologyzing things.
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Galev
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Galiv :D
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posted June 16, 2009 05:56 PM |
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Each happily believed all the others were bound for hell in a basket. And each for all its bumptiousness brought with it the same thing: the Scripture on which our ethics, our art and poetry and our relationships are built.
If only it wasn't true. But it is I still don't understand it. Makes me feel sad that Christianity has more branches and congregations than all the other religions together. I can't blame people who don't trust the churches.
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It took a smart man to know where the difference lay between the sects, but anyone could see what they had in common.
It reminds me this quote:
"You are clever if you know that only half of what you hear is true. And you are a genius if you know which half."
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Incidence? I think it's cummulative!
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Kraken
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posted June 17, 2009 12:58 AM |
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Such a great Quote. Appluad Galev.
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Makes me feel sad that Christianity has more branches and congregations than all the other religions together. I can't blame people who don't trust the churches.
Your not the only one who is confused, One branch of Christianity says u r going to hell if you don't belive in God. Another says you can only forgive yourself for what Adam and Eve did. Another says that they believe in God and that's just about it. Others say that You must have a bible at home otherwise you go to hell. Then there's the Westboro Baptist Church. And the Jewish people do not believe in hell. Some people are bible crazy. Then there's argument about the bible. And I don't get Christianity. One of the the reasons I'm an Atheist. And by the way I'm back on this topic, and I know I won't be burning in hell forever, since I have no belief in it.
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mvassilev
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posted June 17, 2009 01:27 AM |
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Kraken
Famous Hero
I just love being elemental
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posted June 17, 2009 03:35 PM |
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Exactly
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Vini Vidi Vici
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JollyJoker
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posted June 17, 2009 03:54 PM |
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A Christian is a person who believes in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Messiah or Savior of humanity.
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DagothGares
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No gods or kings
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posted June 17, 2009 04:19 PM |
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or as the One Prophet?
Or is this only applicable to muslims who consider Mohammed to be the one prophet?
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