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Galev
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Galiv :D
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posted June 17, 2009 04:27 PM |
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Edited by Galev at 18:07, 17 Jun 2009.
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Quote:
How does one define "Christian" anyway?
As far as I know, and as far as wikipedia knows, the word comes from the very early years after the resurrection of Jesus. It is first mentioned in the new testament that says the disciples were first called so in Antioch.
The word itself means if I'm right "follower of Christ". There is your answer.
But how do you know if someone who calls oneself Christian, or is called so by others really follow Christ? Now that is a different matter. Sadly, nowadays people who doesn't even bother themself to read the Bible call themselves Christian. But how do they follow someone about who they don't really know? Of course one may be a "communist" without knowing anything about Marx, Lenin or the whole stuff, but it is unlikely.
Also someone who -for instance- reads the Bible, but acts as if he didn't... is he following Christ?
Now I am not going to judge that. I can't and I shouldn't (or even mustn't).
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mvassilev
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posted June 17, 2009 05:53 PM |
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That's rather vague. "Follower of Christ". What does that mean?
Is a secular follower of his philosophy - someone who's not religious - Christian?
Is someone who believes in his divinity, but disregards most of the rest of the Bible, Christian?
Are Mormons Christian? Are Jehovah's Witnesses?
Do you have to do particular things to be a Christian, or just have to believe?
How many sacraments are there? Are sacraments important?
Does your church have to adhere to the Nicene Creed? Do you even need any organised form of worship?
They say you only need to "let Christ into your heart". And then it's not that simple.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Galev
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Galiv :D
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posted June 17, 2009 06:06 PM |
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Edited by Galev at 18:39, 17 Jun 2009.
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Quote:
That's rather vague. "Follower of Christ". What does that mean?
That is it. If you understand, you understand, if you don't, it can't be explained better than that.
With respect and honesty: If you really want to know more, you will have to read the Bible and pay attention to it. The only different way you can find out more, would be to meet an honest Christian in person, but it is not an option regarding your question.
Who knows, you might find your answer. I hope you will.
Edit: I admit I only read your quoted question at first and posted the reply, because I was sure all the rest isn't much of importance and would be answered by my post anyway. Now I can highly encourage you to read the Bible. You can find all the answers to all the questions you posed by studying the Bible, paying attention to it. So if you really are interested in those questions and not only posted them to "provoke", you should start reading.
I also advise you to -of course- read it in our native language and till it is too hard to understand, read a "traditional" translation, not a "New" one. I have heard many of the "New" ones are not quite correct. Also, -of course as you want to find out about Christ- start with one of the gospels.
I know most of you are sick of Biblical quotes, but I want to add it as encouragement:
Quote:
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you
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JollyJoker
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posted June 17, 2009 06:10 PM |
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*Sigh*
Please read again what I wrote. There is nothing unclear about that. There is no reason to speculate about things where nothing is to speculate.
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DagothGares
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posted June 17, 2009 06:51 PM |
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Quote:
Do you have to do particular things to be a Christian, or just have to believe?
A Roman catholic will definitely want you to be baptised. I'm prett sure the protestants will also want you to be baptised and the orthodox as well.
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JollyJoker
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posted June 17, 2009 07:13 PM |
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Being a Christian is one thing. Being a member of a specific Christian community is another.
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DagothGares
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posted June 17, 2009 07:15 PM |
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Aye, that's true.
Could we loosen up a christian as someone who follows the philosophy of christ or is messiah the thing that separates the wannabes from the real deal?
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Galev
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Galiv :D
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posted June 17, 2009 07:51 PM |
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Edited by Galev at 19:52, 17 Jun 2009.
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Quote:
Aye, that's true.
Could we loosen up a christian as someone who follows the philosophy of christ or is messiah the thing that separates the wannabes from the real deal?
No.
See my previous post.
Accept this. If nothing else from us in this matter, but This:
There is no easy way and shortcuts in Christianity to make it easier to "deal" with in everyday life. You will not be given a "box" in which you can put Christianity and then you can fit it in the array of things on your bookshelf of ideology.
You can't loosen it up just to get rid of the problem.
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Incidence? I think it's cummulative!
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DagothGares
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posted June 17, 2009 07:54 PM |
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Galev, to continue a discussion about a certain topic, you ned to have a clear-cut definition 
DON'T MAKE ME PICK UP A DICTIONARY!
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JollyJoker
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posted June 17, 2009 08:49 PM |
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Quote:
... or is messiah the thing that separates the wannabes from the real deal?
Yes.
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Galev
Famous Hero
Galiv :D
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posted June 17, 2009 09:17 PM |
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Quote:
Galev, to continue a discussion about a certain topic, you ned to have a clear-cut definition
DON'T MAKE ME PICK UP A DICTIONARY!
You don't get the point. That is it.
In long
To "follow Christ", you want a definition, but you wont be given it. Why do you want that definition anyway? To go on with your "discussion"? To be able to give counterarguments?
Don't get me wrong. I'm not "denying" you the definition because you might want to counter it. I don't give you one, because there is no definition I could give you (a definition that would benefit you). You want everything defined, put nice and correct and strict and exact. But you miss the point.
You know back in the later years of scholastics (middle ages theology) people started to discuss, if Jesus could redeem us if he came in the form of a cucumber, or how many angels can be fit on the point of a needle.
You know, there is this new "Are you a thinker or doer?" thread. It is time for you to be a doer if you want answers about Christ.
Arguing over and over again in a "discussion" which leads to nowhere, but runs in circles; it won't get you anywhere; it won't give you real answers. It might contribute to what some call "mental masturbation" but nothing else, nothing more. Decide: Is this question really important or not? If not, you should stop talking about it. If so, you know my advice.
In short
Quote:
You will not be given a "box" in which you can put Christianity and then you can fit it in the array of things on your bookshelf of ideology.
The above is my answer to your request. You missed its meaning. I meant that I won't help you to categorize Christianity and Christians. Face it, you sometimes need to do some work to receive answers about Christianity. And you most probably only get satisfying answers if you really/honestly/seriously want to get them. If you aren't interested in Christianity at all, please don't bother yourself or others.
(hope no one takes offence, and I hope you believe the this post excludes irony, disdain or anger)
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Incidence? I think it's cummulative!
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DagothGares
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posted June 17, 2009 09:29 PM |
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*rubs temples*
Quote:
Why do you want that definition anyway?
okay, let's go over this again.
You know these quote wars, those things that can make Tolkien blush in terms of verbosity? Those are almost, always because mvass and death have a different definition about a given subject. Even worse, this is the thing that breaks the flow of discussion and drags it off-topic.
But nevermind, have fun doubling or trippling the amount of words and meaninglessness of this thread by discussing things that could be solved by an oxford dictionary. I'll be back when the subject of spirituality and god comes up again and we drop pseudo-science and the bible belt.
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mvassilev
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posted June 17, 2009 09:31 PM |
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Okay, you can't answer me. If you know what "Christian" means, tell me. If not, then just say, "I don't know."
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TheDeath
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posted June 17, 2009 10:00 PM |
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Quote:
Okay, you can't answer me. If you know what "Christian" means, tell me. If not, then just say, "I don't know."
He already linked to wikipedia. Not his fault you didn't read it.
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JollyJoker
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posted June 17, 2009 10:45 PM |
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Quote:
Okay, you can't answer me. If you know what "Christian" means, tell me. If not, then just say, "I don't know."
Can't you read?
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Galev
Famous Hero
Galiv :D
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posted June 17, 2009 11:13 PM |
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Edited by Galev at 23:17, 17 Jun 2009.
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@Dagoth and Mvass
I told you that it can't be explained in a way that is beneficial=serves your "growth" mentally or spiritually. You would learn nothing if I told you a rushed "definition". And yes, I would be happy if you learnt something. Honestly. But you say that I just want to discard the matter, that I just don't know what I'm talking about. You want what you decided you want and won't take my advice. I don't know what is so hard in reading one of the gospels. Even if you are not a Christian and never want to agree with their views you Will find out the answers from the gospel, because the Bible -in many cases- is much more clear than you would expect.
@Dagoth
I was explaining the same thing over and over again. I did because you kept asking the same question, as if I wrote nothing. Call it wordy, all right. But calling it meaningless actually hurts.
@Mvass
Quote:
Okay, you can't answer me. If you know what "Christian" means, tell me. If not, then just say, "I don't know."
Do you mean I didn't give the answer you expected of me? I did answer you at least 3 times. By the way, demanding an answer is not quite polite.
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Incidence? I think it's cummulative!
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DagothGares
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posted June 17, 2009 11:23 PM |
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Galev, let me clarify. We apparently don't seem to nderstand eachother. So lt me rephrase: If you can't put your finger on it, then it is meaningless to define it. If you look at a map and Europe is colored and it says: "Western culture is here womewhere." Then that won't help you either and instead of discussing how western culture affects us, people will stat talking about what it is. Instead of how Christianity or the belief in a God affects us (easy answer) or how this is justifiable (less easy answer) in both a spiritual and moral way (hard for either side), we'll talk about WHAT is christianity and how one perceives it to be.
With a vague answer you only endorse the massive and meaningless posts of the answers. Not with the post itself but by saying that you can't really say what a christian is. Fine, you can leave the room and go back when we go back to religion while the others discuss christianity, but you only prolong the debate on the definition, which should not be our focus, you see?
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TheDeath
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posted June 17, 2009 11:34 PM |
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JollyJoker said:Quote:
A Christian is a person who believes in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Messiah or Savior of humanity.
is that an encrypted message? Why do you have trouble 'decrypting' it?
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DagothGares
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posted June 17, 2009 11:36 PM |
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I'm responding to galev's definition, death, JJ's definition is totally workable
And I think mvass does too... But I won't speak for him.
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TheDeath
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posted June 17, 2009 11:40 PM |
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Why would Galev repeat what JJ said? 
He elaborated on a different aspect: the origin, and whether someone qualifies for the term.
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