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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: I gave up on believing in God.
Thread: I gave up on believing in God. This Popular Thread is 204 pages long: 1 30 60 90 120 150 ... 175 176 177 178 179 ... 180 204 · «PREV / NEXT»
mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 17, 2009 11:43 PM

JJ's definition is fine. But the Wikipedia article has this troubling line:
Quote:
A wide range of beliefs and practices is found across the world among those who call themselves Christian.
Also, JJ's definition has nothing to do with "letting God into one's heart".
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted June 18, 2009 12:11 AM

Quote:
Also, JJ's definition has nothing to do with "letting God into one's heart".
Are you joking? How do you think you're supposed to follow Christ without letting him (yes, Christians believe He is God, or His son, whatever) into your heart?
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Galev
Galev


Famous Hero
Galiv :D
posted June 18, 2009 01:01 AM
Edited by Galev at 01:06, 18 Jun 2009.

Thank you!!!

Quote:
If you look at a map and Europe is colored and it says: "Western culture is here womewhere." Then that won't help you either and instead of discussing how western culture affects us, people will stat talking about what it is.


Finally! I can now use a picture you will understand (not as if you are dumb or sg, but I was apparently talking for the wall).

So I put my finger on Europe: this is the place where you are to find out the western culture. And I intend to do. You will have to put effort into it, yes. You will have to choose a country and look around and investigate and pay attention. This way you will understand their culture.
I could tell you that "The western culture is about eating a lot, doing little excercise and whining for a slim body. Also buying a lot of stuff and throwing them out of the window constantly." But would that be the same? If you experienced it, and understood it for yourself, the way you can comprehend it; you get much more this way.
It is my intention to get you understand it for yourself, and I think I didn't hide this intention. I want you to go and explore Europe for yourself. And I don't want to make your work easy by telling you what I think you need to know about Europe. I want you to make the effort and I want your effort to make the fruit sweet.


Quote:
A wide range of beliefs and practices is found across the world among those who call themselves Christian.


That is why you need to go to Europe and find it out. If I tell you how the Europens behaves that is a thing. But millions of people say they are Europeans, how do I distinguish the real "European" attitude? By seeing many of those people for yourself and understand it your way. (I know there is no consistent "European attitude", I could choose a specified nation but it might screwed the picture)

Similarly you need (I would like you) to study what Jesus taught and from that you may have your impression what would cover "follow Christ" the best. (It can mean different things to different people, however there should be a common root. That's how there are different practices and there is heresy.)

If you still don't know what I mean, you will never understand me.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 18, 2009 01:11 AM

Quote:
I could tell you that "The western culture is about eating a lot, doing little excercise and whining for a slim body. Also buying a lot of stuff and throwing them out of the window constantly." But would that be the same?
No, it'd just be wrong.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 18, 2009 10:45 AM

Quote:
JJ's definition is fine. But the Wikipedia article has this troubling line:
Quote:
A wide range of beliefs and practices is found across the world among those who call themselves Christian.



That is not relevant for answering the question whether you are a Christian or not. As it is not relavnt for the question whether you are a European, that there are different nations in Europe.

A Christian is someone who believes in Jesus Christ as Son of God, Messiah and Savior of humanity. Everyone who believes that, is a Christian. Everyone who doesn't is not.
You don't need to be a member of a specific CHURCH to call yourself a Christian. If you ARE (convinced) member of a specific Church, though, you won't call yourself a Christian anymore, but switch to the specific church's name - Catholic, Baptist, Witness of Jehova, Greek-Orthodox, Protestant, Anglican and so on and on.
This comes into play when it is deemed necessary or important to follow a religion in communion with others which makes binding rituals for the whole of the community necessary.

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Galev
Galev


Famous Hero
Galiv :D
posted June 18, 2009 11:34 AM

Quote:
No, it'd just be wrong.

I really don't know what I expected. Well, honestly, something like this anyway.

Yeah, just hobbyhorse on the words is a comparison. Congratulations

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stankelbenet
stankelbenet


Adventuring Hero
bringer of nostalgia & darknes
posted June 19, 2009 04:57 PM

common logic

A cat is a mammal, but a mammal isn't necesarrily a cat. It's like a tree with branches and each branch has some leaves. Each leaf could be a sect of some kind and a branch could be a religion. The leaves are parts of the branch because they've arosen from it.
Each sect is a part of christianity because it arised from it. Being a part of one of these sects make you christian.

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bixie
bixie


Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
posted June 19, 2009 07:24 PM

Quote:
A cat is a mammal, but a mammal isn't necesarrily a cat.


Rhinoceros
Logician: a cat has four paws.
old gentleman: but so does a dog.
logician: then it must also be a cat.
old gentleman: seems logical.

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stankelbenet
stankelbenet


Adventuring Hero
bringer of nostalgia & darknes
posted June 20, 2009 05:39 PM

Quote:
Quote:
A cat is a mammal, but a mammal isn't necesarrily a cat.


Rhinoceros
Logician: a cat has four paws.
old gentleman: but so does a dog.
logician: then it must also be a cat.
old gentleman: seems logical.

Yeah I've heard that reasoning before in a danish novel called Erasmus Montanus. Erasmus Montanus is lecturing his Granny in the way of science:
"Does a rock fly? No. Does granny fly? No; then granny is a rock." When she then began crying he quickly said: "Does a rock talk? No. Does Granny talk? Yes; Then granny isn't a rock."

My point is: does a cat mew? Yes. Does a dog mew? No, it barks; then a dog isn't a cat.

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madshj
madshj


Famous Hero
Minotaur Lord
posted June 20, 2009 09:03 PM

Hey.
I'm posting in here because its relevant to the topic, i also gave up believing in god, for several reasons... And became a satanist.
Now i want your opinions on this, if you would like to come with some.
As some of you may know or not may know, being a satanist, you believe in yourself, and well the religion is the opposite of christianity, theres no: you may not do this. in being a satanist.
Now some may think: "Only freaks and pshycos becomes satanist, and they usually sacrifices children and animals" This is wrong, as LaVey AKA the dark pope says, doing things like this is not being a satanist, they've completely misunderstood the concept. As its against "the jungle law"
If anyone of you know the 9 statements, then you may prove me right in that they are mostly right.
Blame me or anything, i've got alot of comments and got flamed for saying im a satanist, but it is my opinion, that you can have whatever religion you want.
Im satisfied with the way i live, and well thats just me.

Take care, and feel free to come with any questions you might want to ask

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 20, 2009 09:15 PM

LaVeyan Satanism is more of a philosophy than an actual religion, though.
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madshj
madshj


Famous Hero
Minotaur Lord
posted June 20, 2009 09:17 PM

Yea i know its more of a philosophy than a religion, but i still consider it as my "religion" Call it something you believe in

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Galev
Galev


Famous Hero
Galiv :D
posted June 20, 2009 09:40 PM

Quote:
Take care, and feel free to come with any questions you might want to ask


I really am not going to argue with you or try to convince you. I am just curious. What made you to undertake calling yourself a satanist openly. This whole world (well, the majority) always seems to be against bigotry and the "blind religions" but they are still afraid of the mention of Satan more than that of God or Hell. So practically it is usually harder to call yourself a Satanist then calling yourself a Christian. Why did you choose to do so? One may say: you could be against religions by being an atheist or an "ordinary" man without labels. I'm curious. I think you are braver and probably more honest then most people...

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madshj
madshj


Famous Hero
Minotaur Lord
posted June 20, 2009 09:46 PM

Galev i like being honest, its the way i am. As the subject here says: i gave up believing in god, so i could aswell put it here
Besides i dont care much about other peoples meanings about religion I have mine and im satisfied, tho you cant as much call it a religion as a philosophy. Also i dont want to hide behind something i've made up, as i dont like it either when other people do it. And in my humble opinion if people cant accept others because of for an example their religion, well, then they are bad as persons.

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stankelbenet
stankelbenet


Adventuring Hero
bringer of nostalgia & darknes
posted June 20, 2009 10:23 PM

Loads of questions pal, loads

I personally have no idea of what a satanist is.
My first idea (which is propably wrong) is a guy who won't believe in god but believes in satan instead. They draw pentagrams and try to summon him so he can crush the christians. But satan is still a part of christianity so in order to believe in him you must believe in god (that's the reason I don't believe in this explanation).
I have also heard that they defy the christian moral concept and does exactly the opposite. As one of friends told me once: "We all live by the philosophy of satanism it's just only satanists who confess it."
Quote:
LaVeyan Satanism is more of a philosophy than an actual religion, though.
That gives me a whole new view on satanism. Then they don't believe in satan or...?
I don't believe in god either. More because I can't believe than I hate the church. My prejudice right now is: Atheists don't believe in religion. Satanists hate religion.
Quote:
I think you are braver than most people...
I don't agree. All atheists and satanists I know (including myself) have had a hurry telling the world that they won't ever trust some divine person.
Quote:
And in my humble opinion if people cant accept others because of for an example their religion, well, then they are bad as persons.
There's many types of people I can't accept, but I don't speak out about it. Am I still a bad person in your opinion?

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 20, 2009 11:11 PM

There are generally two kinds of Satanists: mystical Satanists and LaVeyan Satanists. Mystical Satanists worship Satan, whom they believe to be good, or, at least, better than God. They tend to be ritualistic and generally unrestrained. LaVeyan Satanists, on the other hand, merely view Satan as a symbol, and often do not believe in any higher power at all. A few things distinguish them from run-of-the-mill atheists or agnostics, though: their philosophy, and sometimes their rituals and belief in "magic". Their rituals are not designed to worship any deity, but are supposed to draw out individuals' "inner power" or allow them to use "magic" (from what I've seen, they're not very clear on what "magic" means). As for their philosophy, to quote Wikipedia:
Quote:
The Nine Satanic Statements

  1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence.
  2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams.
  3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit.
  4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates.
  5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek.
  6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires.
  7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all.
  8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification.
  9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years.

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

  1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
  2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
  3. When in another’s lair, show them respect or else do not go there.
  4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
  5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
  6. Do not take that which does not belong to you, unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved.
  7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
  8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
  9. Do not harm little children.
 10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
 11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them.

The Nine Satanic Sins

  1. Stupidity — The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It’s too bad that stupidity isn’t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.
  2. Pretentiousness — Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn’t applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. This is on equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone’s made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.
  3. Solipsism — Projecting your reactions, responses, and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are can be very dangerous for Satanists. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won’t. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of “Do unto others as they do unto you.” It’s work for most of us, and requires constant vigilance, lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As it has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point.
  4. Self-deceit — It’s in the “Nine Satanic Statements”, but deserves to be repeated here. It is another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it’s fun, and with awareness. But then, it’s not self-deceit!
  5. Herd Conformity — That’s obvious from a Satanic stance. It’s all right to conform to a person’s wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely, instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.
  6. Lack of perspective — Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints: Know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.
  7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies — Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it’s something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society.
  8. Counterproductive Pride — That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: If it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you’ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, "I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow," then do it.
  9. Lack of Aesthetics — This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time, so they are discouraged in a consumer society; but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It’s not what’s supposed to be pleasing: It’s what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one’s own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied.

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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted June 20, 2009 11:23 PM

It is interesting, though, I suppose satanism has merits and values that are universally good and very individualistic. From what I've read up til now, I think stanism is quite a dangerous philosophy, since it expects, nay demands constant vigilance from any outside threat. It is a point of view which I concede has merits, but I do not standbehind it. I prefer turning the other cheek and a pacifistic approach on life in general.

You may not agree, but I'd rather hold this belief and do good unto others as much as I can
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madshj
madshj


Famous Hero
Minotaur Lord
posted June 20, 2009 11:31 PM
Edited by madshj at 23:32, 20 Jun 2009.

stankelbenet i think people are bad if they cant accept other peoples religions.
and i think you got the answer with the believing in satan^^ LaVeyan satanists doesnt believe in him.

mvassilev, thanks for linking that stuff wasnt by the comp myself to answer

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted June 21, 2009 01:39 AM

I think Satanism is a mix of Nietzsche and religion by that description

Suffice to say, I disagree with Nietzsche on a philosophy level
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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted June 21, 2009 01:59 AM

Nietzschean superman FTW!
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