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ZanJerusalem
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 10, 2007 11:15 AM |
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As stated before, discussion is impossible with these guys around. They don't listen or react, they just spam their quotes.
You call bible vesers "spam"?
This IS called a Discussusion. Feel invited. 
AND Remember what Moderator Pandora said eralier:
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Baklava said in a post earlier
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Lol no, I mostly said that just to piss you off
And I really think that sums up a lot of how you people post. You write simply to inflame the other posters - and that serves to accomplish nothing.
We don't want this thread locked, do we?
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 10, 2007 11:20 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 11:28, 10 Nov 2007.
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So you are saying that you do not follow all of the bible, just some of it? You pick and choose? Isn't that what some of the people you term 'heretics' did?
As for their 'fruits'. The 'fruits' of the Crusade and other acts by those who have forgotten to 'turn the other cheek', and 'judge not', and 'love thy neighbor' are foul indeed.
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Message received.
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ZanJerusalem
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 10, 2007 11:32 AM |
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So you are saying that you do not follow all of the bible, just some of it? You pick and choose?
No, I follow all of it. I just intercept it slightly different than you.
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'turn the other cheek'
I don't think that Jesus I stalking about defending others from being slaughtered and taking back long lost lands in that verse, but about how we should act towards each others. Defending yourself and others are okay, look here:
Luke 22:36-38
36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’ For the things concerning Me have an end.”
38 So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.”
And He said to them, “It is enough.”
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'judge not'
As I already said unto you, we are to judge righteously.
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'love thy neighbor'
You love your neighbour, wouldn't you defend him if he was about to be slaughtered by some evil men when visiting the Holy places?
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted November 10, 2007 11:44 AM |
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As I already said unto you, we are to judge righteously.
No. We are to forgive, and God is to judge. That is one of the foundations of the New Testament, kid.
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You love your neighbour, wouldn't you defend him if he was about to be slaughtered by some evil men when visiting the Holy places?
How about preventing people being slaughtered by your neighbor?
The crusades have been shown in all their glory with the sacking of Constantinople. Please do tell me that Constantinople tried to prevent you from visiting the holy places.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 10, 2007 11:46 AM |
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Hmm seen nowhere in that verse where it says "Judge not, except rightously" must have missed that. Besides, how do you know you are judgeing rightously? It might be somebody else who interprets the bible differently who is.
I would defend my neighbor yes. Would I judge the person trying to commit the harm, no. Not my place. As for land lost, it is lost, why cause harm over it now? If your heart is in the right place, and you are right with god, it does not matter WHERE you are right with god at. Even up to a few years after I might be able to see it, but it is long since time to accept it lost.
We are not talking about people harming others however. We are talking about people who just believe differently. What people believe is their business, not ours. Spread the word, and if it is not recieved, leave. Let God worry about it. The God I read about must be different then yours. He is loving and carring, good and patient. Why would such a being want violence in his name? If anything, he would want it avoided. I want you to seriously think about this. Violence, hatred, or such should never be done in Gods name. That is the acts of the serpent, not of god. God is about tolerence, love, and peace. Respect others beliefs and opinons, let God worry about if they are right or not.
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Message received.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted November 10, 2007 12:35 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
As stated before, discussion is impossible with these guys around. They don't listen or react, they just spam their quotes.
You call bible vesers "spam"?
This IS called a Discussusion. Feel invited.
AND Remember what Moderator Pandora said eralier:
Quote:
Baklava said in a post earlier
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Lol no, I mostly said that just to piss you off
And I really think that sums up a lot of how you people post. You write simply to inflame the other posters - and that serves to accomplish nothing.
We don't want this thread locked, do we?
Yes, I call bible verses spam.
And no, this isn't a discussion. As long as you cannot acknowledge the possibility that the bible could be wrong, and that it was written by supersticious monks, discussion with you is pointless. There is no reason or logic behind your claims, only spam.
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ZanJerusalem
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 10, 2007 12:37 PM |
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No. We are to forgive, and God is to judge. That is one of the foundations of the New Testament, kid.
Wrong, we are to judge the false prophets and correct and forgive the wrong-doers. I seriously cannot believe that the Eastern-Orthodox Church teaches anything else, some strange protestant sects may, but not the Constantinoplean Christians!
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The crusades have been shown in all their glory with the sacking of Constantinople.
His Holiness the Pope rightfully excommunicated those "crusaders" and then tried to do the beast of the situation.
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Hmm seen nowhere in that verse where it says "Judge not, except rightously" must have missed that.
That's the point of judging the false prophets, the heretics.
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Besides, how do you know you are judgeing rightously?
BY following God's words. Of course, I no one is perfect and therefore, no one can judge perfectly.
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What people believe is their business, not ours.
Wrong, as it's our duty so save others, we have to prevent the false prophets from spreading their lies, and also to convince the heretics of the truth.
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ZanJerusalem
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 10, 2007 12:40 PM |
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As long as you cannot acknowledge the possibility that the bible was written by supersticious monks, discussion with you is pointless.
Mwha!? You seriously believe that? There was no monks back 6000 BC -100 AD thou now.
Look yup the definition of "spam".
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 10, 2007 02:07 PM |
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The bible.
Read in the original context of the Old Testament written for Jews, by Jews.
Exactly what I'm doing now. I have 3 copies of it at home and they all say the same thing: "lo tirtzah" - you will not murder. Sorry, but I don't see the word Jew/neighbour/friend/fellow citizen anywhere.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted November 10, 2007 02:39 PM |
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this is not a disscussion this is an attempt for ZJ to convert us all.
I agree with monolith though,untill you will not consider another posibility that you might be wrong there is no point of any more convincing,your a sheeple,no offence.
you should read Nitche`
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Wrong, as it's our duty so save others, we have to prevent the false prophets from spreading their lies, and also to convince the heretics of the truth.
so you would "use" any unconvnetial method to "presuide" "unbelivers" to "belive" on Cathlic christinity?
And how do you fallow god words? does he speaks to you?
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types in obscure english
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted November 10, 2007 02:57 PM |
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Wrong, as it's our duty so save others, we have to prevent the false prophets from spreading their lies, and also to convince the heretics of the truth.
And that exact attitude is why discussion is pointless and people like me start to loathe religion.
What arrogance you have.
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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted November 10, 2007 03:02 PM |
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aye,for the benefit of my nerves i seggest i will withdraw from this topic. have fun moonolith 
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types in obscure english
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Shadey
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 10, 2007 03:06 PM |
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Could we stop using terminology such as "Sheeple"? This is the kind of degrading language that inflames both sides. This also includes sarcastic emoticons and stereotypes. Regardless of how true you might think your words are, as it has been pointed out they do nothing but make the other side ignore your arguements.
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Shadey
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 10, 2007 04:50 PM |
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Edited by Shadey at 16:56, 10 Nov 2007.
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@Shadey
Just to clear something up for you.
(1) I was raised in a Methodist household, so I'm pretty clear on the "Christian viewpoint".
(2) I am not a "liberal".
(3) I have no problem with Christians or religious people in general. In most common instances those who follow a faith are well-intentioned, good people - as are most who chose NOT to follow a faith. Most likely, you are one of them. I have many Christian friends, AND I have had many civil discussions with Christians about their beliefs, and came out of those discussions understanding better their viewpoints, even if I don't agree with them. *My* problem as it pertains to religion is with those people who use their religious beliefs as a reason to infringe upon the rights of (or worse, cause violence to) OTHER people. As it happens, a great deal of the violence and discord in this world DOES have religion as an ultimate cause (and I don't just mean people shooting eath other). That does not mean that I think religion is a universally bad thing, nor does it mean that I think that religion has contributed nothing to our society. Far from it. But I do believe that religion certainly is a motivating factor for a lot of evil in the world and that in that respect, the world currently might be a better place without it. That's not a hypothesis I can verify of course. It's mere speculation. When I say I think religion should be completley abolished, that of course is a bit tongue in cheek. But I think the way that people allow their religion to act as a divisive force in society DOES need to change.
(4) What I would like, just once, is for a religious person to admit that religion is not the omnibenevolent force that a lot of religious people pretend it is, AND to admit that religion would be a better thing if everyone let it guide their own lives, instead of trying to make their religion guide everyone else's lives. If everyone followed that simple rule, the negative influence of religion on society would be completely erased. But... it's never going to happen. (Oh yeah, and I'd also like religious people to stop trying to teach religion in science class. )
1 & 2 Fair enough, my apologies.
3 I would agree that any people religious or otherwise ought not to infringe on other people's rights, nor cause violence to other people. I would also agree that unscupulous people can and do use religion for selfish ambition rather than for good. The question arises are those people really part of their religious organization? As I see it a person who calls themselves a Christian, but doesn't follow the tenents of the religion is a fake, a sham, a wolf in sheeps clothing. Unfortuneatly, the rest of the world sees them as a representative of that religion. I would agree that people ought to change so that relgion is a good thing for society.
4 You may know that the largest complaint from within the Christian church are Sunday Christians. Religious people that revert back to your regular secular joes Monday through Saturday. In that sense, yes religion is not an omnibenevolent force. In the case of a true Christian that lives the tenents of Christianty in a sacrifical way I would argue is living in the omnibenevolent. The same can be said for several different religions.
Now nobody enjoys other people making value judgements or choices for them. I personally would not appreciate some entity forcing their rules upon me. However, that is not the world that we live in. My government, boss, wife, society, church(God) all have expectations from me to live up to. I would propose that not only is it their right to expect me to live up to those standards, but it is a nessessity. Yes, people can create their own standard of living, but the very nature of man is to choose the easy way, the immoral way. Why do children at the age of 2 steal, lie, cheat, and throw temper tantrums when they don't get their way? Did their parents teach them to act like that? Possibly, but not all do. The question then is, should children guide their own lives? Now, I'm sure you would say certainly not! If children ought to be guided, what about adults? The answer again is certainly! Without any sort of rules execpt the ones made by personal choice the entire world would erupt into chaos. Take the literary example of Lord of the Flies. Where do these guiding principles come from? I would argue that they come from God and that society is incapable of creating a moral system of laws and regulations without those guiding principles. My reasoning is that people are self centered and selfish. People create laws that are self serving. That creates the need for a higher authority that is perfect and without fault. Can you say that about any government?
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted November 10, 2007 06:08 PM |
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Could we stop using terminology such as "Sheeple"? This is the kind of degrading language that inflames both sides.
But the Church calls us that way... We are its flock and priests are our shepherds. With heresy being the wolf that needs to be rooted out.
I'm a black sheep, I suppose.
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Wrong, we are to judge the false prophets and correct and forgive the wrong-doers. I seriously cannot believe that the Eastern-Orthodox Church teaches anything else, some strange protestant sects may, but not the Constantinoplean Christians!
Well, the Orthodox Church is sort of, you know, against mass murders, genocides and stuff. Heretical, isn't it?
About the entire false prophet thing... That pretty much depends on one's point of view.
But never mind.
Another question, what do you think of Islam?
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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ZanJerusalem
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 10, 2007 06:45 PM |
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Another question, what do you think of Islam?
A heresy who have resulted in millions of deaths, just look at what they did to Constantinople or more recently in Armenia, Bosnia and Kosovo. Their unholy book considers us Christians "filthier than urine". All what they have, they have conquered, except the city of Medina.
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted November 10, 2007 07:58 PM |
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Your joking right?
Monotheists were one of the best treated peoples when they went on a conquering spree.What they do know is quite different. Yes admittedly they had almost no voluntary conversions at the time they went killing people thoug. Well voluntary at swordpoint i guess.
Yes theyre doing a lot of terrible things. But look how many peaceful islam communities there are as well. Theres lots of little wars all over the place and not all of them involve islam.
In a way it looks like all religions seem to go through some kind of voilent phase and then calm down. Christianity had its crusades and inquisitions and the islams have their jihads.The jews had qutie a few battles in the bible too.
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted November 10, 2007 08:10 PM |
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Another question, what do you think of Islam?
A heresy who have resulted in millions of deaths, just look at what they did to Constantinople or more recently in Armenia, Bosnia and Kosovo. Their unholy book considers us Christians "filthier than urine". All what they have, they have conquered, except the city of Medina.
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1) NO insults, abuse, racism or sexism.
Insult is a remark that undermines another person. A simple way to avoid insulting people is to discuss their actions and opinions rather than their personality. For example: instead of saying who they are ("you suck" or "you are an idiot") say what you think about their opinions/actions and why ("Your post about me is wrong because I never said that heroes 4 is a bad game" or "I disagree with your opinion because centaurs have more hit points than gnolls"). This simple rephrasing strategy can resolve many conflicts and fights before they even happen, both online and in life.
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6) NO provocation or aggravaion.
Provocation is unfriendly behavior that causes anger or resentment from others. Aggravation is causing, continuing or increasing irritation or trouble. This includes being a detriment to the peacekeeping of the forums.
Each member is solely responsible for their own conduct - no amount of provocation or aggravation from someone else will justify the action of breaking the rules. Instead of responding to a member who has offended you, alert a moderator about this situation and let them deal with it, keeping you out of trouble.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted November 10, 2007 08:55 PM |
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Another question, what do you think of Islam?
A heresy who have resulted in millions of deaths, just look at what they did to Constantinople or more recently in Armenia, Bosnia and Kosovo. Their unholy book considers us Christians "filthier than urine". All what they have, they have conquered, except the city of Medina.
a similar thing could be said by Jewish people on Christianity. or polytheistic people on monotheistic people.
what do you think of Polytheistic people, or Wiccans, or Shamans, or (and this is what will really be funny) Satanists!
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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ZanJerusalem
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 10, 2007 09:11 PM |
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Moderator Lich_King: Could you please specify how my post where an insult, an abuse, racist, sexist, a provocation or an aggravation?
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a similar thing could be said by Jewish people on Christianity. or polytheistic people on monotheistic people.
True Christians are not aggressive neither violent. We may defend ourselves and others, however.
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what do you think of Polytheistic people, or Wiccans, or Shamans, or (and this is what will really be funny) Satanists!
I will not answer this question before Mdr. Lich_King tells me why my previous post deserved a negative quality point.
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