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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted February 05, 2008 05:49 AM |
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Quote:
I thought scientists always chose the "more likely" scenario (like how unlikely it is for us to all dream up an illusion of the same evidence ).
Well I didn't say anything about whether or not it was more or less likely.
I just said that it is unlikely we are here. (although to an atheist this argument is rather defunct considering, well, we are here)
But no matter how unlikely it is that we are here, our creator is always mathematically less likely than us, as I have stated many times.
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John says to live above hell.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted February 05, 2008 07:08 PM |
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Everything, is mathematicly impossible with or with no creator, if you think about it.
"There had to be a beggining"
Mathematicly impossible
"There always was something"
Mathematicly impossible.
We are living in the impossible. Am I wrong?
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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 05, 2008 09:58 PM |
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Quote:
"There always was something"
Mathematicly impossible.
Why's that?
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Eccentric Opinion
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted February 05, 2008 11:38 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 23:40, 05 Feb 2008.
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I'm not a scientist so I am not going to try to explain it. I would just hurl trying to put it into words why. But I'll tell you what, if you can explain how it /is/ possible for everything to materialisticly exist eternaly before now then I will pay close attention.
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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 06, 2008 02:52 AM |
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Matter cannot come out of nowhere, correct? Therefore it has always existed.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted February 06, 2008 06:54 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 16:12, 07 Feb 2008.
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How matter's always been is more incomprehencable than a creator in my book, let alone the forever existing series of mortals.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted February 07, 2008 07:35 PM |
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maybe the universe metamorphosed?
This is just an idea, but it could explain how the matter got there to create our universe. No creator, no ending, just a constant cycle of universes.
if that is the case, then the matter in our bodies is infinitely old!
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted February 07, 2008 07:43 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 19:52, 07 Feb 2008.
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DNA made itself like .... all the bits formed together where they fit with attraction and created a mile long microscopic sized strand, which... haha whatever. Yea that just happened this morning in my bedroom.
But in all seriosity  I never gave up trying to believe, and today my conviction is indestructable.
Whats more probable?
A: mortal life existing since, well forever, or
B: infinite life which created mortal lifes? I mean, something has to be infinite and it sure cant be mortals.
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What are you up to
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 07, 2008 09:53 PM |
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Mortal life hasn't existed forever. Matter has existed forever.
You have never seen DNA spontaneously organize inside your bedroom? Man, are you missing something! 
Seriously, though, it took about 1.6 billion years (if I'm not mistaken) for primitive cells to organize themselves. It takes a while.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted February 08, 2008 01:16 AM |
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Edited by Moonlith at 01:18, 08 Feb 2008.
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Quote:
But in all seriosity I never gave up trying to believe, and today my conviction is indestructable.
That says more about you than that it is an argument pro-religion. As I said before, discussion with religious people is impossible since they are never open to the idea that they MIGHT be wrong.
Imagine a dry, barren planet. Imagine there being a small bit of water, a single tiny pool on the entire humongous planet. Imagine the circumstances to be just right for a small colony of fungus or bacteria to develop within that pool. Imagine, for all I care, these bacteria develop into very small creatures, actually capable of thought, and becoming self-concious. Imagine they went to think about why they existed, how they came to be. Now what would be the most logical explaination?
A) Some higher deity thought it fruitfull to give them life.
B) They are an accident.
Please answer A, then at least I'm fully convinced dicussing with you is futile.
Since so far the only argument you bring up is "It's impossible to be this lucky", while it has already been explained that argument is completely false. And you haven't responded to that ever since.
Moreover you seem to believe evolution is a process that takes less than 5 days.
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InfernoX880
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Famous Hero
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posted February 08, 2008 04:04 AM |
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There are some things we are not meant to discover but are meant to follow...well blindly I guess. It's called faith. If you look at the accounts of Jesus, they all state he is a great guy and all, but there is no account of proof for his miracles. All legitimate accounts were written way after hs death, and many things could easily have been exagerrated.
So in reality, there is no proof of God. The most common thing that relates to God is called the "First Cause" and it's been discussed here as I can see. It generally means that everything has a beginning, but when the beginning of the beginning is reached, who formed that beginning? Was it a result of random events that conveniently started our existance? Or was it truly God? If so, then who created God?
I do believe in God, but I find it difficult to see how God could exist with no beginning. It's something I've thought about and it makes no sense. Was God just bored one day so he created us?
We'll never know. The least we can do is contribute at least mildly to what God asks of us and if there is a God, maybe we can go to Heaven.
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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2008 04:11 AM |
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Exactly. It all comes down if you believe in something without empirical evidence or not. If you do, you have faith, and that is the only support for religion. I don't.
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Eccentric Opinion
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted February 08, 2008 04:44 AM |
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Edited by dimis at 05:13, 08 Feb 2008.
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uranium
May be I am off-topic, but I will comment on something that is already off-topic:
Quote:
Balklava Said:
Quote:
What I said was a fact. You won't have nuclear waste dumped in USA or France or Britain. You'll have it dumped in places like Afghanistan.
You could try to think about it once in a while.
False actually. Too Expensive to import. They would usually do it in some poor suburban area or trailer park where few people live.
I don't know with facts the case about nuclear waste, but I find it much more likely that the case is similar to the quote of Baklava above. The reason is very simple. Even e-waste is exported from "Developed" countries to "Developing" countries. In fact e-waste by retired computers is probably the most significant environmental concern for China <1>, <2> (and more info if you search a bit more, like here), since most of the e-waste from US, and Europe ends up there. On the other hand though, US and Europe are supposed to take care of their own waste. So, why don't they do that? Simple: It's much more profitable to say that they do so, and export their waste to China.
I am not sure if this is a complete list, but this page has a mini-table with the most hazardous parts of your computer.
So, what about nuclear-waste? 
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The empty set
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted February 08, 2008 11:07 AM |
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Yes but nuclear waste is alot more dangerous to transport than old computers.
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John says to live above hell.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted February 08, 2008 03:44 PM |
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So, it is a lot more dangerous to leave it for your own country!
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The empty set
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted February 08, 2008 04:26 PM |
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I think it is pointless to talk to you athiests.... So far, it has been done in vane. Lets agree to disagree, and continue to babble on about why we are right and others are not.
I'd rather argue endlessly for no purpose
There is a reason my faith is indestructable, because it is knowledge.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 08, 2008 06:30 PM |
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Edited by Minion at 18:38, 08 Feb 2008.
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I love the Pope, I love seeing him in his Pope-Mobile, his three feet of bullet proof plexi-glass. That's faith in action folks!
Hehe, and to cheer the mood on Friday, here is a clip from the comedian Bill Hicks, its about fundamental Christians.
Enjoy
Bill Hicks - It seemed so plausible..
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted February 08, 2008 07:09 PM |
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There is a reason my faith is indestructable, because it is knowledge.
I am glad I said that because now I see it more along the lines as faith, but it is strong.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted February 09, 2008 12:20 AM |
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I think it is pointless to talk to you athiests.... So far, it has been done in vane. Lets agree to disagree, and continue to babble on about why we are right and others are not.
I'd rather argue endlessly for no purpose
And again you avoid commenting on-topic whenever your points are rediculed. How surprising...
Quote:
There is a reason my faith is indestructable, because it is knowledge.
And in fact, the very thing you do now is proof you don't even know what Religion is all about.
As explained above, religion is about FAITH, it's called BELIEVING for a reason. It's not about KNOWING, it's about BELIEVING.
And the very moment you start babbling how you have supposedly "evidense" for whatever part about your religion, you are making a fool out of yourself. Because it goes exactly against that what you stand for, Faith.
Moreover it's a foolish statement since you can't even back up your claim. Unless your only argument is that you are far more enlighted and superior than us "atheists" and thus obviously way out of your league.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted February 09, 2008 08:52 PM |
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have fun belieing in what you believe in. I'm out of here, I dont need athiests talking trash to me.... Its my choice to hear it or not. They say I'm closed minded, ha
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What are you up to
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