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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted February 13, 2008 05:22 PM |
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Thankyou, Moonlith-Kun
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Andrelvis
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 13, 2008 05:39 PM |
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Quote:
Hey Guys, name's Ítalo, I'm new at this thread and would like to add a few comments about the theme. You know, I study Biology at an University in Brazil, my country is mostly catholic and it's difficult to talk to people here about it if you're from a different line of thought. I do not have Ieva as a God, but I'm not exactly atheist, for I consider lots of possibilities, but in my opinion when you want to believe something you should at least have a purpose, most people I know just think that saying "I AM CHRISTIAN" is enough to have others understand that he or she is religious and virtuous.
I do not believe in science blindly, reason and imagination (creativity) are not to be forgotten. We must have in mind that, as humans, mere dust in the universe, we're not the ones to set truth 100% assured of it, balance between what we want to believe and what is really a fact is needed in order to achieve wisdom and know yourself better. That's my message.
Thx.
ps: things are hot in here
I agree that one's beliefs (scientific, religious, etc.) should be developed by that person, and exploring the possibilities is for the best. But, about people being closed in Brazil to other lines of thought, I find it to be very the opposite: there are a lot of people open for opinions and having interesting ideas; not everyone or even most people of course, but there are many out there if you wish to find them. The truth is that, in Brazil, I find that most people are non-practicing christian and a reasonable minority is very dedicated to religion.
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Orodruin
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 13, 2008 05:51 PM |
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@TitaniumAlloy
Have you ever heard of a hypothesis that says that in Mars and other planets there were living beings billions of years ago? According to what I read and discussed with my teachers, there's a specific orbit (ours) in the solar system with certain set of temperature, gravity, light, and radiation (etc.) characteristics that allows life to be formed, and with the ever expandig force of the universe it is believed that once in the past Mars was in the same spot as we are (and we were in Venus' place), so it had the proper elements to develop life!!! What do I mean with all this? I mean LIFE IS A MICRO MOMENT FOR THE UNIVERSE, it's possible that even Mercury will turn his liquid for into a more solid one and achive the right characteristics of our planet, and maybe have life too!!!
I see that you're much insterested in the sciences of the world such as I am. Good to know that, it's rare. And what about Gaia Theory, any comments?
ps: This, in my opinion is the very most healthy way to talk about such a polemic theme.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted February 13, 2008 06:15 PM |
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It has been postulated that life (or conditions that could support life; i.e., water, an atmosphere, etc.) once existed on Mars, but it isn't because Mars was once in Earth's orbit. There are other celestial bodies in the solar system today that may have conditions suitable for life that are much further out than Mars (see Titan, moon of Saturn). The availability of conditions suitable for life are a lot more complicated than just "proximity to the Sun". While certainly that's a factor, the magnetospheric, atmospheric and mass/size variables also play important, interrelated roles.
The Universe's expansion doesn't really play a role in the local structure of the solar system, where other forces are more important.
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Orodruin
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 13, 2008 06:34 PM |
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Quote:
I agree that one's beliefs (scientific, religious, etc.) should be developed by that person, and exploring the possibilities is for the best. But, about people being closed in Brazil to other lines of thought, I find it to be very the opposite: there are a lot of people open for opinions and having interesting ideas; not everyone or even most people of course, but there are many out there if you wish to find them. The truth is that, in Brazil, I find that most people are non-practicing christian and a reasonable minority is very dedicated to religion.
Sorry, I might have made misunderstood, I meant that people I KNOW in Brazil do not know how to discuss the matter of this thread with people like me (i'm the one from a different line o thought for them).
Oh, and do agree with you about the part I gave emphasis to in your reply. One more question, are you brazilian or live in Brazil?
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Orodruin
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 13, 2008 06:47 PM |
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Edited by Orodruin at 18:51, 13 Feb 2008.
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Quote:
It has been postulated that life (or conditions that could support life; i.e., water, an atmosphere, etc.) once existed on Mars, but it isn't because Mars was once in Earth's orbit. There are other celestial bodies in the solar system today that may have conditions suitable for life that are much further out than Mars (see Titan, moon of Saturn). The availability of conditions suitable for life are a lot more complicated than just "proximity to the Sun". While certainly that's a factor, the magnetospheric, atmospheric and mass/size variables also play important, interrelated roles.
The Universe's expansion doesn't really play a role in the local structure of the solar system, where other forces are more important.
Yep, I agree with you, many planetary systems are ruled by a variety of other factors than the proximity to the sun, but, due to studies and opinions I've been lookin at (note, there are lots of people out there that disagree, I'm just the one in the opposite side, it's NOT better or worse) I still consider (not 100% of course) that, at least in mars the most predominant and decisive element was the distance we're talking about, cause Mars's atmosfere (mostly) and sized are similar to Earth's.
Certainly, as a future scientist (i think so hehe  ) I do know that this can change and that other better theories may come.
But we're both right, the best way to know what to believe is discussing the matter. And please, of course there are Pristine Unicorn fossils in Mars, they ruled that world and problably will rule ours (watch it )
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted February 13, 2008 07:03 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 19:08, 13 Feb 2008.
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Here, you might be interested in this:
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast31jan_1.htm
and this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars
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Orodruin
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 13, 2008 08:06 PM |
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Quote:
Here, you might be interested in this:
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast31jan_1.htm
and this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars
Thx for the info, you've shown me that there is more to consider. Looks like I've been a little out of date. Do you study by yourself, is already graduated, or is taking classes?
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Andrelvis
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 13, 2008 08:37 PM |
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Quote:
Sorry, I might have made misunderstood, I meant that people I KNOW in Brazil do not know how to discuss the matter of this thread with people like me (i'm the one from a different line o thought for them).
Oh, and do agree with you about the part I gave emphasis to in your reply. One more question, are you brazilian or live in Brazil?
I am brazilian, I live near Rio, in Niterói. 
I would like for living beings on other planets to be found during my life, they surely must be nothing what we would expect of them to be.
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Orodruin
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 13, 2008 08:54 PM |
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I live in Minas, Betim (betim is next to Belo Horizonte).
hey, do you know if there are many of us in this community?
By the way, at first glance I thought this commu. was made only for Heroes, but know I see that people in here are very much interested in other matters of life, its great cause sometimes you must to change the subject to balance things. And still about the thread, if you could clean your mind from everything and return to the "baby" state, which way of living life or religious thought would you like to be taught? For example, it would be great if i was born and raised as a hindu, cause i very much apreciate the hindu religion.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted February 13, 2008 09:01 PM |
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Speaking about the "Heroes" stuff, I've pretty much quit playing a while ago (some 'testing' I wouldn't really consider "playing"), so it pretty much qualifies me as a non-Heroes person that posts in this forum. The only chance I'll return to playing this game (apart from just looking at the creatures/terrain and artwork) would be for Nival to release a cool new patch with much of the features I'm waiting for.
I understand this was off-topic and in fact I apologize for that, but I like this atmosphere of the discussion better than the childish ones we had before with anit-paladin and gallow "debating" (no offense intended).
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Orodruin
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 13, 2008 09:14 PM |
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Heroes is sitrictly related to religion, cause its full of myths and fantasy creatures etc., I mean, we could talk about its origins for hours. For example, in Academy you have the atheist mages, who rely upon their wisdom and believe to be on top of the world, Sylvan Problably might be realated to Hindu because of the strong relationship to nature (not regarding the dragons of course), Haven and Inferno, no more comments, The dead could be, humm... maybe the (this one's for Andrelvis) "orixás" and "macumba" people of some brazilian beliefs(joking, no ideas for the dead), Dungeon, well, don't know, Fortress is obvious: the norse culture, and for Stronghold maybe something like the mongols and Genghis-kan (their names suggest it as well). Good theme for a thread.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted February 13, 2008 09:17 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 21:20, 13 Feb 2008.
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Quote:
And still about the thread, if you could clean your mind from everything and return to the "baby" state, which way of living life or religious thought would you like to be taught? For example, it would be great if i was born and raised as a hindu, cause i very much apreciate the hindu religion.
While I am born a christian I wouldn't necessarily consider my religion or way of life "indoctrinated", it is more based on my own will and experiences that I have choosen to believe in what I believe. As a matter of fact, I appreciate all religions and would like to learn something from all of them as I think they are all communicating us the same basic principle which is kind of complex itself (and yes that includes the reincarnation or heaven/hell stuff which, to the average person, seem contradictions). That's however, the ideal mode, because religions like any other things, have been twisted by humans along the road.
So then I think I wouldn't really matter where I was born as long as I wasn't kept away from such information (like forcing me). So it seems my religion is not based "just because A says so" but rather on my own self experiences and thoughts. It is hard to explain, similar to how you explain to a child how to learn a respective language (before knowing any language at all).
You see I think that we all "learn" by ourselves and not by indoctrination, this includes obviously the lessons of life. I think for someone to "learn" something rather than just memorize it, he/she has to imagine it with his/her own thoughts and in a way different to any of us. That's what understanding really consists of, to project it in your mind and feel as if it's a part of your knowledge, not just blindly recite or learn something by heart. Same goes for religious experiences -- that is why they are hard to explain because it's the same as expressing your feelings, and I'm certainly not a poet. Not only that but I do not think that anyone readily understands poems either
Science for me is also a form of indoctrination, especially since you do not have access to everything man has ever done (let's suppose walking on the moon as an example), you'll have to believe what NASA (for this example) fills you with. I do not say science is 100% indoctrination, by far, you can experience and learn things for yourself, much like a religion too (however those that haven't done any such things, but simply learned the Bible/whatever by heart will probably not understand). Again, I am not someone who agrees with indoctrination nor do I believe anyone will ever learn something from that.
EDIT:
That's perhaps the reason I like math more than other "sciences" because it deals with abstract notions, such as perfect circles, and infinitely-precise definitions that we as humans simply represent them with simple approximations, lines (I believe the circle/sphere is the most perfect shape and at the same time simple as well). The fact that I am such a proficient programmer is perhaps due to my imagination, as I said before. I learned all programming by myself, without someone to force me to learn this or that, it's important to organize these yourself in your own thoughts, not learn them by heart just to make person X happy, and the same thing happened with my religion.
@angelito:
Quote:
And I have yet to see 2 or more different kinds of logic. That would be in fact illogical..
Yes well like I said before, there could be one absolute logic, but we wouldn't know it. In fact, which of the two logics is correct?
the answer could be none, and I highly think it is as well, because everything is relative. Absolute things are really hard to find, if not impossible.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 14, 2008 12:15 AM |
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Edited by Minion at 00:18, 14 Feb 2008.
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The death, I like your posts. One thing you constantly do though, is saying things in the lines of: "Science claims we have been on the moon". You should see the difference between a Nasa claim, and the entire notion called Science! They have very little to do with eachother - anyone can claim anything. Science does NOT force you to believe that man were on moon, and is not responsible for any claim of such nature.
Science (from the Latin scientia, 'knowledge'), in the broadest sense, refers to any systematic knowledge or practice.
That aside, your views of personal experience regarding any knowledge are my thoughts exactly. Did I read somewhere you do meditation, or am I mistaken?
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted February 14, 2008 12:35 AM |
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Quote:
Thx for the info, you've shown me that there is more to consider. Looks like I've been a little out of date. Do you study by yourself, is already graduated, or is taking classes?
I have a doctoral degree in physical chemistry.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted February 14, 2008 03:22 PM |
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Quote:
The death, I like your posts. One thing you constantly do though, is saying things in the lines of: "Science claims we have been on the moon". You should see the difference between a Nasa claim, and the entire notion called Science! They have very little to do with eachother - anyone can claim anything. Science does NOT force you to believe that man were on moon, and is not responsible for any claim of such nature.
Ok then, you're right. In this respect, I was talking about how the average people views "science" (most don't even know what they're talking about either). If *true* science is what you said it is (i.e just ideas/knowledge), then obviously it's not it to blame, but the people and business that (perhaps) twisted it (much like the Bibles too).
Quote:
Did I read somewhere you do meditation, or am I mistaken?
Though I am not yet really good at it, I constantly keep practicing it (like they say practice makes perfect). Of course it's not the only thing that has add up my "experiences" I was talking about previously, since the thoughts and emotions that happen 'outside' meditation (i.e when I do not practice it) are also summing up (to put in a mathematical term).
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friendofgunnar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
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posted March 10, 2008 09:51 PM |
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2 Chronicles, Chapter 16, verse 1
In the thirty-sixth year of Asa's reign Baasha king of Israel went up against Judah and fortified Ramah to prevent anyone from leaving or entering the territory of Asa king of Judah.
1 Kings, Chapter 16, verse 6-8
6. Baasha rested with his fathers and was buried in Tirzah. And Elah his son succeeded him as King.
8. In the twenty-sixth year of Asa king of Judah, Elah son of Baasha became King of Israel
Case closed. Mods please lock.
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behold an athiests nightmare
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted March 10, 2008 10:11 PM |
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Quote:
I have a doctoral degree in physical chemistry.
lol, sexual innuendo!
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted March 10, 2008 11:39 PM |
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Quote:
2 Chronicles, Chapter 16, verse 1
In the thirty-sixth year of Asa's reign Baasha king of Israel went up against Judah and fortified Ramah to prevent anyone from leaving or entering the territory of Asa king of Judah.
1 Kings, Chapter 16, verse 6-8
6. Baasha rested with his fathers and was buried in Tirzah. And Elah his son succeeded him as King.
8. In the twenty-sixth year of Asa king of Judah, Elah son of Baasha became King of Israel
Case closed. Mods please lock.
Well, there's a perfect proof God doesn't exist
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 10, 2008 11:45 PM |
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TA, even the most extreme theists admit that the Bible was written by humans, and thus contains human error.
Edit: I meant FoG. Now end this nonsense with the avatars.
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Eccentric Opinion
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