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| Thread: Any way to change level up skill choices? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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silentbobus
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 26, 2006 03:37 AM |
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Any way to change level up skill choices?
I am playing through the Haven Campaign and I am continually offered the same choices virtually every time I level up. It seems that saving and reloading has no effect, and often the next level has the same choices as the previous one. I really don't need any more leadership or luck and I don't want to learn defense or offense.
Is there any way to change the choices you are offered?
Also, is there any way to post new messages on this board? It seems like I have to write 10 replies to write one question!
I would really like to be offered either Enlightenment or Logistics...
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Cabranth
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 26, 2006 06:15 AM |
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Hello silentbobus.
I'm still fairly new here, but if you want to ask a question you should look for a thread with a related topic. Like "Heroes V Campaign Walkthrough: Inferno" would be a good place for asking for tips/help with that game/campaign. There are other more general threads along the lines of: "Questions about(whatever)". Just look around. You don't have to start a whole new thread to get an answer, just ask in a thread and someone friendly will help you out.
If you are new to the Heroes Games then I'll give you an answer. Skill choices are selected randomly by the A.I. There is nothing, sadly, that you can do about it. I just had a long and passionate exchange with a fellow member who thinks this is a good thing. I don't.
If you have other questions look through the Forums to see which would be most appropriate, like Temple of Ashan for questions about Heroes V. Then search through the thread topics and choose whichever one looks closest to your subject.
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silentbobus
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 26, 2006 02:45 PM |
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Well if it is random, it seems set for any level ups at least that turn... I have tried playing out the battle before a level up quickly and slowly, to see if I could use up some of the random numbers, and still nothing. If I get a level up in a turn it seems I get exactly the same stat and same terrible choices for skills.
I think either there should be more choices on level up or you should be able to specify that you never want a particular skill and to stop giving you that choice each level. I will never get recruitment, the computer should stop offering it to me until it is the only possible choice left!
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Wolfshanze
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 26, 2006 03:19 PM |
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If I'm not mistaken, upgrade choices are PRE-SET per map (this is usually randomized when the map is first reached by you). Restoring saves within the same map will NOT change your upgrade options. The only possibility to change the order of upgrades is to restart the scenario from scratch (not restoring a save within the map).
Note, this is also how mage guild spells are also determined... restoring a save won't change the spells in the guild, but restarting the map from scratch will. At least that's my take on it.
As for skill upgrade STRATEGY... if you have your heart set on certain skills, here's some thoughts:
1) You're usually given a choice of four... usually two NEW skill categories and two UPGRADES of existing skills.
2) Given the above, NEVER take a NEW skill you don't want... to get something differant in the future, just keep UPGRADING existing skills (even if you don't really care for it), just so you can get the option of a NEW initial skill later-on when you level up.
3) Map out ALL the skills you want before you begin leveling-up. If you know what you want, JUMP ON THE NEW SKILL the minute they show up instead of upgrading an existing tech you have and want.
I've followed the above guidelines and always get EXACTLY what I want for each hero. I noticed you said you really want "Enlightenment". While it has it's uses, I'm not a big fan of that one for campaigns... the main bonus is to gaining experience... which, in all honesty, is way too easy to accomplish anyways, since every scenario in the campaign has a level cap, which you almost always reach without problem. I guess the only thing I do like about Enlightenment is the "Scholar" sub-category, which is nice to have, but not a game winner. I'll take Logistics, Sorcery or a school of magic over Englightenment in a campaign, but that's my preferance... your mileage may vary!
Anyways, good luck getting what you want... you may have to wait three or four level-ups before getting what you want, but if you stick to your guns and only upgrade your existing skills, you should get the new skill you want offered eventually.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 26, 2006 03:23 PM |
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Perhaps your problem is a bit different. You may not fullfil all the requirements to get a different ability offered.
For example:
If u have leadership as skill, and have diplomacy as ability, the A.I. canīt offer u any other ability (refering to leadership) than estates and recruitment, if u donīt have learned the ability "Retaliation Strike" on your "Training" speciality. Only after u have learned R.S., u are able to learn the next Leadership ability "Divine Guidance".
Just an idea though....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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silentbobus
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 26, 2006 04:06 PM |
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Why would anyone want to miss out on Enlightenment?
At expert level it's giving you an extra stat point every other level. Even with all of the camps and artifacts for alternate sources of stats, this should still translate to you having 30-40% better stats than a hero without enlightenment of the same level. It also gives you an xp bonus so you should be a couple levels higher than you would be otherwise.
Am I right in thinking that a hero can only take six major skills? That is the way it looked on the interface.
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Gus
Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
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posted May 26, 2006 04:17 PM |
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Actually, a Hero can take 3 to 4 Skills, because they always start with their Racial + another Skill (and sometimes even a third).
As for the way levelling up works, you have the choice between two SKILLS and two ABILITIES. Which is why it's so restrictive. the number should definitely be 3 for each (4 might be too much). when you're given the choice between Estates and Navigation on a very big full-land map, where's the strategy ? ^^
Also, as a sidenote, remember that the number of Abilities you can get for a Skill is dependent on the level of that Skill. In other words, at Basic you can get one Ability, at Advanced two, and at Expert three.
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Wolfshanze
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 26, 2006 04:21 PM |
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Quote:
Why would anyone want to miss out on Enlightenment?
Am I right in thinking that a hero can only take six major skills? That is the way it looked on the interface.
Because there are other better skills to pick up in my opinion... if you take Enlightenment, you might not have Logistics or a school of magic or war machines (expert First Aid alone is like having free resurection ability).
I just think there's a lot more important things to have then a few extra stat points here or there, and with only SIX skills to choose from (yes, you're correct on that), I think Enlightenment (at least on the campaigns which have experience caps) is a bit of a waste... there are simply better abilities to have then Enlightenment in my opinion.
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silentbobus
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 26, 2006 04:38 PM |
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Well, here is my 'ultimate' skill setup for a character:
Racial Ability
Enlightenment
Logistics
Luck
Light/Destructive Magic
Sorcery
Of course I imagine this setup might change to accomodate going for the ultimate skill for each race, and once I play the game a little more.
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rpgguy
Adventuring Hero
Scholar
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posted May 26, 2006 04:54 PM |
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why light/destruction and no dark magic?
ill take dark over light any day!
expert mass confusion - broken! 
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Week Of The Rabbit
Triple Growth For All Creatures
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Wolfshanze
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 26, 2006 05:26 PM |
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Quote:
Well, here is my 'ultimate' skill setup for a character:
Racial Ability
Enlightenment
Logistics
Luck
Light/Destructive Magic
Sorcery
Of course I imagine this setup might change to accomodate going for the ultimate skill for each race, and once I play the game a little more.
There you go... I could take your same hero, and replace Enlightenment with Attack, Leadership, War Machines, a 2nd school of magic or just about anything else and whipe the floor with you...
I just don't think Enlightenment offers enough to ditch other more usefull skills for.
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Cabranth
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 26, 2006 05:32 PM |
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Hello.
To silentbobus: Wolfshanze is correct about the skill Pre-determination. I should have said the skills are Randomly determined by the A.I. at the BEGINNING of the scenario, and are SET PERMANENTLY. All the choices you are given, from your first skill/ability to your last are unchangeable. All you can do is try to take beneficial skills when you can. Upgrade an already existing skill or take an ability if you don't get a new skill you would like to take. This gives you the chance(just the chance, mind you) that the pre-set path the A.I. has chosen will offer something better next time.
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silentbobus
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 26, 2006 05:43 PM |
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Quote:
Hello.
To silentbobus: Wolfshanze is correct about the skill Pre-determination. I should have said the skills are Randomly determined by the A.I. at the BEGINNING of the scenario, and are SET PERMANENTLY. All the choices you are given, from your first skill/ability to your last are unchangeable. All you can do is try to take beneficial skills when you can. Upgrade an already existing skill or take an ability if you don't get a new skill you would like to take. This gives you the chance(just the chance, mind you) that the pre-set path the A.I. has chosen will offer something better next time.
Well if that is the case I imagine that they must be saving whatever random number seed they are using to create the choices. I doubt they would save all of the actual skill choices since some will become invalid once you are at expert level on all of your main skills. I've tried replaying the first campaign and it hasn't given me better choices. It still seems to offer me my racial skill and sub-skills related to the leadership trait that I don't want.
Wouldn't it be nice if you could specify that you did not want one of the skills offered and not to include it again 
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Wolfshanze
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 26, 2006 06:03 PM |
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Quote:
Wouldn't it be nice if you could specify that you did not want one of the skills offered and not to include it again
That would be nice... unfortunately, it's not an option.
I just wish you could PICK an upgrade... now wouldn't that be nice!
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Cabranth
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 26, 2006 06:23 PM |
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Hello.
To silentbobus:
ALL choices given to you are pre-set. If you block a path, the alternative choices were also pre-set at the start. All possible paths and choices are pre-set.
Would it be nice if the PLAYER was in control of skill ability choice? YES! YES! YES!
If you're going to have an RPG aspect in your game(Hero Development), then it makes no sense to give control to the A.I. and pretend that the player has any REAL choice. Then it's not an RPG, it's just a pre-set program.
Great subject for a discussion/opinion thread, though.
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silentbobus
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 26, 2006 06:33 PM |
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Well personally, I think it's a good idea that you don't have complete control over you choices at each level, it forces you to be a little more creative. If I had complete control I imagine that virtually every hero I created would be the same.
Still, I think getting more than 2 skill choices would also make it better than it is now. It seems fair that wanting my Knight Hero to get enlightenment should be tricky, but after six or so level ups I should be offered it at least once.
I've never even seen Logistics which is odd because its a compontent in the Knight 'Ultimate Skill' I virtually always get offered my racial skill until it's maxed out.
Has anyone tried a mission with more than one hero, and alternating the order you get their level ups in? Does it change the choices?
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rpgguy
Adventuring Hero
Scholar
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posted May 26, 2006 09:27 PM |
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i also started a topic about this called "frustrating abilities" you might read it cuase its discussion is quite the same.
anyways i dont like the whole choose between 2 skills and 2 abilities.
it would be much much better to let people take what they want - no random at all.
just like every good RPG game you take what you want and thats it.
and if you say that every hero you create will be the same - well thats just your opinion.
when you play a good rpg game the whole fun of it is creating diffrent heroes with diffrent abilities.
i would rather create diffrent heroes (1 magic and 1 might for example) to help me fight the scenario in diffrent ways while using the advantage of each according to the situation.
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Week Of The Rabbit
Triple Growth For All Creatures
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Cabranth
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 26, 2006 11:06 PM |
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Hello
To silentbobus:
The skills should be expanded and well balanced. I can off the top of my head imagine say, 3x as many skills as open slots. The skills being divided into Might, Magic, and General. This would, again if they were well balanced, provide many possible permutations. There are many True RPGs that provide way more skills to choose from than any one character can have. Balance is the key.
rpgguy is right on the money. This aspect of heroes(character development) is the part of the game that is a RPG. The whole premise of RPGs is creating your OWN character. If the skills to choose from are numerous and balanced, then no one grouping would be superior. All would have advantages and disantvantages.
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SidEWinDr
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 27, 2006 04:54 AM |
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Heroes 4 is the same with the skill choices on level up, seeming to be set at the beginning of the scenario, AT FIRST GLANCE. Every battle too is predetermined in that even if you save, a creature dealing 144 damage will always deal 144 damage if you do the exact same thing each time. Nobody can say that damage dealt for a particular battle is preset at the beginning of the map and evidently enough, this is not the case. If you vary your moves, like moving a unit one square to the left of where you previously intended it to go (the heroes 4 grid consists of very small squares so this minor difference is not a huge change in strategy anyway), a different AI result appears and the 144 damage dealt by another creature can be 156 or 132.
When I am not satisfied with the results of a battle or a level up choice, I just load the most recent save and do something different - doing the exact same thing as you did before in hopes that the random numbers that determine damage/skill choices will go to your favor will only give you the exact same result have you not saved then loaded a game.
For instance, when reaching going to a tree of knowledge, it helps if you have a save several movement points away so that by varying the path you take each time, there is a chance that the skill choices offered to you will also change. However, the choices do tend to be the same ones as before so much patience is still needed - saving and loading multiple times and trying different variations each time.
This is true for Heroes 4, I am not sure if it applies to Heroes 5 also.
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[url=http://ragnarok.wilfritz.com] ..: Ragnarok Endurance Arena :.. [/url]
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Wolfshanze
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 27, 2006 05:02 AM |
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Quote:
When I am not satisfied with the results of a battle or a level up choice, I just load the most recent save and do something different - doing the exact same thing as you did before in hopes that the random numbers that determine damage/skill choices will go to your favor will only give you the exact same result have you not saved then loaded a game.
This is true for Heroes 4, I am not sure if it applies to Heroes 5 also.
Let's debunk this right now.
This is DEFINATELY NOT the case with Heroes V.
Upgrade paths are set at the beginning of the scenario, and no variation of moves will change the order in which they appear (assuming you choose the same upgrades of course).
In Heroes V, if your choices would be Summoning and Dark, for your first upgrade options, no variation in what you do before leveling up will change this fact short of restarting the scenario from scratch.
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