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TheGrimReaper
Tavern Dweller
and Death incarnate
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posted October 27, 2001 12:16 PM |
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The vampires look like crap now though. They looked much more scary and undeadlike in HMM3 than now. Now they look like a bloke in a halloween-costume, yuck. And the whole drake thing: there was a unit in HMM3 called a Wyvern wich had all the treats you want the drake to have, poison, speed and the like.
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He who is already dead cannot truly be killed
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 27, 2001 12:34 PM |
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Vampires good in HoMM 3???
IMO they're shockingly bad. The Heroes 2 and 4 Vampires look a lot better.
Creatures which look bad in Heroes 4:
Peasants
Orcs
Zombies
Trolls
Especially the two latter. Orcs and Peasants are somewhat expected too look the way they're doing so I don't mind all that much about them.
Creatures which looks good:
Black Dragon
Vampire
Thunderbird
Devil
Heroes is a fantasy game. Creatures should have a fantasy look. Leprechauns are Ok, they're supposed to look that way. Vampires are supposed to look like they do in heroes 4, that's the image many people have of them.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted October 28, 2001 04:28 AM |
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I agree, there Djive. Although, just normal Vampires in HoMM3 were OK, but were much better in H2. Leprechauns; they look alright to me. I like the little green hats that they wear.
Good in HoMM4
Bone Dragon
Black Dragon
Hydra
Minotaur
Bad in HoMM4
Titan
Dragon Golem
Medusa
Orc
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"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”
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Preserver
Promising
Famous Hero
Elemental Druid
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posted October 28, 2001 08:43 AM |
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Medusa?!
Is there any artwork of the medusa released? (besides that drawing)
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- The only alert the invaders had was the rustling of leaves on a day without wind -
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted October 28, 2001 11:20 AM |
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I saw that the medusa is a blue creature with blue snake hair. It is situated next to the hydra in this screenshot with 25 units. Here it is: 
I think its graphics are quite poor, and the medusa in Heroes of Might and Magic 3 looks much better. I also think the Venom Spawn is poor-looking. Not quite how i expected it to be- a green blob with protruding thorns. Well, i hope the number of good looking creatures make up for the number of bad ones.
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"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted October 28, 2001 12:06 PM |
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Hey, have you seen the vampire?It would have been better off without him instead of making him a fool well dressed-up.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Preserver
Promising
Famous Hero
Elemental Druid
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posted October 28, 2001 01:22 PM |
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ThE_HyDrA...
I think it's to undetailed to judge how she's going to look. If she's going to be "ugly", it really doesn't matter, cause that's what medusa(s) are supposed to be..
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- The only alert the invaders had was the rustling of leaves on a day without wind -
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 28, 2001 02:58 PM |
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Quote:
Hey, have you seen the vampire?It would have been better off without him instead of making him a fool well dressed-up.
I saw the above what you put up in a new thread.
Before asking for dull and 'realistic' graphics you should perhaps think about what type of game Heroes is?
IMO Heroes is a strategy game. Creatures are symbols used to represent armies with various special abilities. Heroes is not a war-simulator or anything like that. This mean it should prefer symbolism and good graphics at least 100 times more than the details you mention (like suits and clean clothing)
Therefore, the things the designers/artists should look at:
1. The creature should be easily recognizeable for what it is named. (I.e. it should look as if you would normally encounter it.)
2. The game should have an overall design for creatures so you feel all cratures are part of the same game.
3. The towns should have a design so the creatures are made in the same style.
4. The graphics and animations should be good.
5. The creature should have a design appropriate for its level. (The Higher levels => The better design!)
6. The creature should have an appropriate build. (Trolls should for instance be strong, not look like meek Goblins.)
7. The creatures should have an appropriate level and appropriate special ability.
I'm sure there are many things they shouldn't consider. I'm of the opinion that 'Realism aspects for dressing code' is one thing that falls into this category.
Besides if Elementals, Medusae, Centaurs and many more fight naked, then why can't Vampires fight with a suit? I the case of vampires I don't see what you're aiming for. I'm not a Vampire fan, but all I've seen looks like the model. I'd thus expect them to look that way on the battlefield too.
Besides I don't understand the benefit of having a dull image which is realistic compared to a good-looking picture which is not. This is really one of the times when realism must yield in favour of better graphics and effects.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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The_Blue_Camel
Adventuring Hero
Bearer of the Mighty Camelnor
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posted October 28, 2001 04:57 PM |
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hmmm...
seems as if, by your definitions, a wyvern could be characterized as a drake...
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The Fastest Land Creature
His Speed Rivals Even The Mighty Phoenix
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted October 28, 2001 06:04 PM |
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If we were to talk about realism this game shouldn't exist.
The epic subject is not realistic at all.It's pure myth.
Many things of what you say about how the game should be I agree with BUT I say that there's more to it, and perhaps the most important thing is the atmosphere that the game is creating.And what creates the atmosphere? The image! And what creates the image? The basic design of each element. Here I agree with you again that the look should justify the name and the abilities, but all elements must come together and build an unitary image, and that won't hapen when a perfect gentleman from the 19'th century is fighting a mythological creature. Ever !
If you expect from a game primary strategy and in subsidiary atmosphere, you could very well play chess instead of Heroes of MIGHT and MAGIC .
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Darion
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 28, 2001 06:33 PM |
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Ditto with the vampire thing... as far as the whole realism vs. symbolism thing goes, that is why the dragon golem should be taken out. Umm... venom spawn, waspwort I can handle. But "Dragon Golem" ??? I'm sorry, I just don't like it at all now... graphic wise, concept wise, any way you put it. Whoever did that at 3do did a good job of doing a dragon golem, I have nothing against their work, but when I think of dragon golem, I think of something a little less.. intricate looking, with less gears, air compressors and springs.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 28, 2001 06:52 PM |
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Quote:
... but all elements must come together and build an unitary image, and that won't hapen when a perfect gentleman from the 19'th century is fighting a mythological creature. Ever !
The model I've seen is clearly a vampire. It cannot possibly be mistaken for a gentleman of the 19th century, and as far as i know the garb he wears would have been common for a long time, it's not directly tied to a certain age and time.
The Heroes game doesn't only contain mythical creatures. Almost all the creatures in the Haven are normal humans, and so are not mythical at all.
Frankly, I don't see why you say Vampires can't look smart. If they can drain blood, transform themselves to bats and back again, then they can certainly look smart. Since, according to popular lore, you can't see a vampire in a mirror the image it would give off would have to be some form of illusion anyway.
I'd worry more about things like vampires (and trolls and some other creatures) can't tolerate sun-light (but always fights during the day), than how they're dressed!!!
What's the purpose in looking dull?
What's the purpose in looking sour? (Your other thread.)
You pay for a game. You expect to be entertained. Dull Vampire garb and sour looking Leprechauns will not please many. Better then to remove them from the game.
Quote:
If you expect from a game primary strategy and in subsidiary atmosphere, you could very well play chess instead of Heroes of MIGHT and MAGIC .
I play chess. It's an excellent game. I'm failing to see your point. Aren't there many more people playing chess than heroes? Aren't both strategy games? There's no contradiction in playing both.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted October 29, 2001 01:00 AM |
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The "perfect gentleman" was somewhat a joke.I'm not saying that they're not supposed to look smart; the gown is ok; indeed it has always been present, but the suit and shoes are too similar to the ones that modern people are wearing. That's what makes them unfittable to the ancient times atmosphere.
As about the difference between chess and HMM is that in chess you are driven by the strategy ITSELF while in HMM you are driven by the charm of te illusion of you beeing a mythical hero yourself.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted October 29, 2001 01:47 AM |
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I'm quite new to the forums of hmm, tell me, how do our ideas get to the guys at 3do? Do they read our forums or do they have their own (which i couldn't find on their site) ?
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted October 31, 2001 07:14 AM |
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Yes, I think they may have a peek down here, but am not certain. But what i am certain about is that they have replied to some of peoples emails.
Vampires: I, presonally think they look quite good for what they are. I think in many areas, in characterises their stronger points, such as their ears and fangs.
They also look rather 'HoMM2ish' in terms of their dress and colour of it. I like the little combover on the top of their head, too.
Trolls and Peasants: Yes, they do actually look very similar, except for what's on them. The troll has practically no clothes at all, but the peasant has some daggy cloths as clothes. Two other creatures that look similar are Black Dragons and Bone Dragons. Even though they are both Dragons, the both have the same body shape. If you placed some black skin over the Bone Dragon, it will become a Black Dragon. So much for no redundancy in the looks of the creatures.
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"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted October 31, 2001 09:59 PM |
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I think the dragons (black and bone) should look alike becouse the blacks(dead ones, of course) seem now to be the only source for necromancers to rise back to life their bone ones.
OK, keep the head of the vampire but change the rest (if a vampire is supposed to recruit other vampires by biting some peasants, how would these ones be able to dress nice? They remain poor creatures, just like vampires in hmm3; only by recruiting them from higher classes you obtain vampire lords, which are classy.)
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted November 01, 2001 07:40 AM |
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Quote:
I think the dragons (black and bone) should look alike becouse the blacks(dead ones, of course) seem now to be the only source for necromancers to rise back to life their bone ones.
Quite a good point there, Vlad; do you mind if i call you that, Vlad?
The reason they should look differently is because every Dragon is different, as we are. This will give more life to the game, in the aspect that creatures do actually look different, and not the same with the skin taken off. Dragons are quite important to HoMM, and all should be different, as they were in HoMM3.
Vampires are also quite important, and to tell you the truth, they look quite good. They 'grow on you' I suppose. They should really be a fearsome opponent in HoMM4.
But I would still like to know what level they are.
____________
"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted November 01, 2001 10:54 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I think the dragons (black and bone) should look alike becouse the blacks(dead ones, of course) seem now to be the only source for necromancers to rise back to life their bone ones.
Vampires are also quite important, and to tell you the truth, they look quite good. They 'grow on you' I suppose. They should really be a fearsome opponent in HoMM4.
But I would still like to know what level they are.
That's OK, everyone may call me Vlad. I can make my point further ( as a matter of fact I study medicine, you'll see where I'm getting at...) saying that when you look at skeletons they all look the same to you even if the persons they once were were completely different as race, sex, etc.Only a close look makes the difference. So 3do may have also a point, but I tend to stand by you when you pleed for diversity.Tough decision, but you're also right.
Well, for me vampires are THE most important, so the higher rank for them the better for me... that's why I am so "obsessed" with their image, I just want them perfect for their job!
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted November 08, 2001 07:28 AM |
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Necropolis
Well, good news for Vlad, Vampires are in the game, are in the Necropolis, and are a level 3 creature. That is a good level for them, i feel.
Liches, i hope that they'll turn out to become a hero, not a creature. They need a good, Undead hero which can cast spells proficiently.
As it seems at this time, level 2 has been he hardest to determine. The Necropolis appears to boast a Cerberus and a Ghost or Wraith, as i like to call it.
If it were to be a Ghost, well, I think they could have specified a certain species of Ghost. A wraith on the other hand is a fantasy creature, and has been used more widely in Heroes 3, than the Ghost was in Heroes 2.
One question though: Where is the skeleton? I initially thought it was in level 1, but i later realised it had been replaced by the Imp.
Same happened to the Goblin. Replaced by the berserker. Not a good move, if you ask me.
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"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted November 08, 2001 11:47 PM |
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Anybody knows anything about the skeleton?
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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