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johnbrown
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 17, 2006 08:44 AM |
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The best factions are obviously Dungeon and Sylvan. Haven isn't even in the running. Quit kidding yourself about that "mighty" squire and marksmen combo. Haven is mediocre in every sense. The only unit worth mentioning are Paladins. They're also the unit that your opponent will kill first.
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted July 17, 2006 08:52 AM |
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Quote:
The best factions are obviously Dungeon and Sylvan. Haven isn't even in the running. Quit kidding yourself about that "mighty" squire and marksmen combo. Haven is mediocre in every sense. The only unit worth mentioning are Paladins. They're also the unit that your opponent will kill first.
I totally crushed a sylvan with heaven... I think sylvan is the worst possible choice against heaven, it stands no chance.
And the Sylvan hero was better than mine . Mine was lvl 13 and his was lvl 16-17 , with much better stats : i had 10 9 7 7 , and he had 12 18 8 11 ...
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johnbrown
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 17, 2006 09:01 AM |
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Yippee, you managed to find a player worse than you! I bet that doesn't happen too often.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 17, 2006 09:13 AM |
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Partially agree with Johnbrown. Haven isn't strong enough in the earlygame to stop the rush from a powerful warlock with a ATB bar effecting spell (master of storms/ice), backed up by assassins and redheads. Cavaliers will get slaughtered by spells and furies before they will do their ridiculous overpowered damage via jousting.
But, if haven survives, it can do much with almighty paladins. ;x two stacks of them (separated to make better use of their power) can (or rather - will) kill all your lizards and furies in their first turn and you can do nothing about it. : / it's all about spells now.
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted July 17, 2006 09:26 AM |
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Quote:
Yippee, you managed to find a player worse than you! I bet that doesn't happen too often.
wooow ... what a great answer... your kindergarden behavior shouldn't be allowed in a Heroes Forum. so take your frustrasionts elsewhere , i don't care to hear about them .
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johnbrown
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 17, 2006 09:31 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Yippee, you managed to find a player worse than you! I bet that doesn't happen too often.
wooow ... what a great answer... your kindergarden behavior shouldn't be allowed in a Heroes Forum. so take your frustrasionts elsewhere , i don't care to hear about them .
Says the guy that can't spell "kindergarten." Care to walk me through what happened during the fight? There must be some explanation for why you beat him. I guessing your lack of skill was outweighed by his.
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted July 17, 2006 09:59 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Yippee, you managed to find a player worse than you! I bet that doesn't happen too often.
wooow ... what a great answer... your kindergarden behavior shouldn't be allowed in a Heroes Forum. so take your frustrasionts elsewhere , i don't care to hear about them .
Says the guy that can't spell "kindergarten." Care to walk me through what happened during the fight? There must be some explanation for why you beat him. I guessing your lack of skill was outweighed by his.
i only care to walk you out of this topic... if you don't have anything to say, then you'd better shut up... till now, your arguments are worthless....
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 17, 2006 10:35 AM |
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"It's 2% per level on top of the 10% jousting bonus provided by cavaliers/paladins.As a result, at level 20 the damage of paladin is increased by 50% every square it travels"
and say it's not a joke. assuming the stack travels 8 squares, the damage will be increased by 400%. ROTFL.
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johnbrown
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 17, 2006 11:00 PM |
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So far you haven't really given any evidence for Haven's superiority. Most of your arguments are heresay and hold little ground. Here's my quick analysis of Haven:
Peasants/Conscripts - Worthless, must be trained.
Archers/Marksmen - Decent unit, but low HP hampers it.
Footmen/Squires - Good defensive unit, but many better level 3s exist (hunter and minotaur for example)
Griffins/Imperial Griffins - Battle dive is useful, but many better level 4s exist (druid and rider for example)
Priests/Inquisitors - Terrible for a level 5 (djinn, lich, hydra, unicorn, and charger are all better imo)
Cavaliers/Paladins - Arguably the best level 6, Haven's high point
Angels/Archangels - Resurrection is handy. A medium level 7 (Black Dragons and Titans are better)
So there you go, Haven in all its glory.
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johnbrown
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 18, 2006 12:24 AM |
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Here's a quick rundown of Haven vs. Dungeon/Sylvan
Conscript < Assassin
Marksman < Blood Fury
Squire < Minotaur Guard
Imperial Griffin < Grim Raiders
Inquisitors < Deep Hydras
Paladins > Shadow Matriarchs
Archangels < Black Dragons
I know dungeon has less growth, but let's face it, they have much better units.
Conscript < Sprite
Marksman > War Dancer
Squire < Master Hunter
Imperial Griffin < Elder Druid
Inquisitors < Silver Unicorns
Paladins > Ancient Treants
Archangels > Emerald Dragons
The areas where Haven troops are better are close fights. The areas where Sylvan troops are better are blowouts.
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Klaital
Known Hero
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posted July 18, 2006 12:59 AM |
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I would rate inquisitor much better than deep hydra. Deep Hydra imo is terrible level 5 unit. It would be decent to protect your own shooters, except that dungeons shooters don't really need protection, both having high hp and no melee penalty. Also I count squire better than minotaur guard. Both are slow melee walkers, but squires at least do something useful even if they never reach the enemy (aka shield allies). I am also not so sure if grim rider is better than imperial griffin, they both kind of do the same thing, ie hit hard once and then die. Griffins are a bit more versatile being flyers, although grim riders have lot more hitpoints which helps. Those are pretty even overall.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 18, 2006 01:06 AM |
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You can't hope to compare a faction by comparing its creatures tier by tier.Rather by what creatures the hero will probably have on him,which of them will be upgraded(resourse/gold costs) and the interdependence between them.Say marksmen,squires,imp griffins will probably defeat war dancers,m hunters,druids.A battle dive on druids(griffs mostly play first) and its just a matter of time.Not to mention the hero's role.If I have a knight with resistance and protection(maybe even carry ) and fight a warlock earlygame you may see different outcomes.Spell points are few and warlocks cannot afford a single spell to be resisted(not to mention that if you upg mage guild you will build less duellings).If that happens the warlock's army cannot hope to outmatch the knight's (better stats) army and his(free!) powerful direct attack.Furies will fall like flies,along with the assasins an the too slow hydras.Of course I'd rather be a warlock earlygame as I love hit&run tactics .
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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johnbrown
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 18, 2006 01:32 AM |
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I meant for the comparison to be on a very basic level. I think most heroes are comparable at most points in the game, though there are exceptions. Hydras are very good with the teleport creature spell. Most people would say that in a fight of dungeon vs. haven, the minotaurs would trump the squires, given their ineffectiveness against spells.
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Klaital
Known Hero
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posted July 18, 2006 01:38 AM |
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Good luck getting Teleport spell with dungeon though, as it is impossible to get it from the dungeon mage guild, it being 4th level light magic spell. (and thus also requiring advanced light magic to cast which also is not often seen with warlocks)
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neoexdeath
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 18, 2006 01:56 AM |
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Warlocks can get Logistics=>Scouting=> Teleport Assault 
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Klaital
Known Hero
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posted July 18, 2006 02:02 AM |
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Quote:
Warlocks can get Logistics=>Scouting=> Teleport Assault
Ah yeah forgot that, despite that I got it myself on Raelag in the campaign. 
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BigBadVoodoo
A poster
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posted July 18, 2006 05:52 AM |
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Quote:
Yippee, you managed to find a player worse than you! I bet that doesn't happen too often.
... you rushed to conclusions like this about Homm3 balance, which turned out to be semi wrong, and there was no need to be a total ass to this guy
I don't think that Haven is >>> dungeon, nor dungeon >>> haven... it breaks down numerous factors...
but I do believe that both of that have a pretty crappy start as far as clearing mines, because there are certain spawns that these towns simply CANT TAKE without suffering losses until week 2 (such as gargs, most ranged units, upgraded sprites, and a few others) unlike inferno and necropolis
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BigBadVoodoo
A poster
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posted July 18, 2006 06:01 AM |
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Quote:
Here's a quick rundown of Haven vs. Dungeon/Sylvan
Conscript < Assassin
Marksman = Blood Fury, different combat roles and each excels
Squire > Minotaur Guard, because of initiative
Imperial Griffin = Grim Raiders, may even favor the Griffins, Grim Raiders are just not very solid HP and Damage wise, also compare the growths of these 2 units
Inquisitors < Deep Hydras, totally agree, especially with teleport assault
Paladins > Shadow Matriarchs, definately, these units could even beat black dragons with klaus as the hero in this current patch
Archangels =< Black Dragons, a tiny bit of advantage to Black Dragons, but angels are great units, and archangels' rez helps Paladins
Conscript < Sprite, true
Marksman > War Dancer, true
Squire < Master Hunter, true
Imperial Griffin < Elder Druid, true
Inquisitors < Silver Unicorns, true
Paladins > Ancient Treants, true
Archangels > Emerald Dragons, true
I used John's post as a template to insert my own opinions.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 18, 2006 08:18 AM |
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haven has three main damage dealers.. paladins, which almost always kill the stack they attack (most likely grim raiders -_____-), marksmen (blessed by inquisitors) doing nice damage per shot and imperials, (blessed once again), scoring battledives and nice normal damage when blessed + high initiative. the rest is support and protection. So don't say inquisitor is a total crap, he IS useful i.e. bcuz of the cleansing spell and haste/bless (both important, yet hero can get only 1 of them in the guild.. inquisitors are the source of the other one  ).
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted July 18, 2006 08:49 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Yippee, you managed to find a player worse than you! I bet that doesn't happen too often.
... you rushed to conclusions like this about Homm3 balance, which turned out to be semi wrong, and there was no need to be a total ass to this guy
I don't think that Haven is >>> dungeon, nor dungeon >>> haven... it breaks down numerous factors...
but I do believe that both of that have a pretty crappy start as far as clearing mines, because there are certain spawns that these towns simply CANT TAKE without suffering losses until week 2 (such as gargs, most ranged units, upgraded sprites, and a few others) unlike inferno and necropolis
I never said Heaven >>> Dungeon , or any other castle ... just that Heaven might have a little edge. I think the Heaven has a better start than the dungeon  , especially if you pick Douglas...those extra archers really help, but even without him, you still have some ranged units and dungeon has the scouts which cant be called ranged
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