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| Thread: Hate |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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ruby
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crazed swede
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posted August 05, 2006 04:28 PM |
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Hate
For the past two days, I have been trying to finish a movie now very dear to me. It is called Schindler's List. Not only does this extravagant film make me sick to my stomach, but it made me realize...
This world needs some serious help.
I can't reach the knowledge, I can't understand the term.
Hate.
I just..it just bothers me! I can't understand! I cannot understand how a man can hate so much.
When you look at this picture. What do you see?
Do you see animals? Do you see dirt? Do you see Jews?
Or do you see people.
You may say, "Oh well that stuff is in the past," or "That stuff doesn't happen to people anymore."
Wrong.
Racism. It happens every day. Sometimes, it's good to step out of the little box that America and Europe has plopped down into. If you really look into it, focus on not just the FOX report and the newspaper, but look on the internet, study it hard instead of wasting time on your iPod and your brand new car, or your COACH purse.
There are people all over this world, dying people. People are being murdered, slaughtered, tortured because of their beliefs, their race, their occupation, their bloodline, their orientation...you name it. There is so much hate, too much hate. So much hate, I can't even begin to explain it.
When people tell me they hate me, this is what I think about. Hate. Hate is the Nazis. Hate is the killing of more then 6 million Jews, Jehova's Witnesses, Sota's, and many other religions during the Holocaust, because they were faithful. This just boggles my mind.
As I was watching the movie with my mom who had seen it when it came out in Sweden (1991), I told her as I watched the bodies of women and children be dumped in a mass grave to be burned, that if I saw that happen in real life, I would ask the German's to shoot me. I am sure that if we put a normal American or European teen or young adult into a place like that, they would want the same. We think with closed or small minds. If the car runs out of gas, we get grounded, our parents take our playstations and throw them out the window (it happens), we get a detention for doing something horridly stupid...then we think we're cursed. 
Try being dragged out of your home with countless German Nazi officers pointing machine guns in your face, thrown into a ghetto, dragged back out seeing people being shot right in front of you, children are screaming for their parents as they are being separated and thrown onto trains, then death. The smell of death all around you. I can't even begin to understand how they lived on. I would've shot myself if the German's hadn't done it for me.
The pain. The hatred. It makes me so thankful that I am spoiled, but it still hurts me...it still pains me...it still makes it hard for me to sleep at night knowing that it's still happening. Just like most of Germany never saw how badly the Jews were treated in the labor camps, America and Europe aren't seeing what is happening in China, Africa, Iran, Israel...etc. We see what the TV screen shows us, but what if we dug a little deeper.
Crazy thought I know. But just like Schindler. He was one man that saved thousands. What if one of us could do the same?
Still think I'm crazy?
I don't.
Think about it next time you waste your money to see "Vampires sucking the guts out of every main character in the story for no apparent reason and there really isn't any storyline worth seeing, you just like the intensity you feel when you see Paris Hilton in that mini as she is getting her face sliced off and you know how pointless and braindead it is, it's just, it has Brad Pitt in it and he is just such a babe, and you just gotta see it because it's just so horribly graphic and you almost get to see Johnny Depp's ass."
You could be watching something that actually happened, something that will inspire you not to run home and mastrubate, but something that'll make you think.
Because honestly, we don't think much these days.
And if you're in this thread to argue or throw rude and hateful comments back in forth then forget it.  Go to another thread. This is a discussion not a battle.
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Seitzembolus
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posted August 05, 2006 04:36 PM |
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If you think that film is bad, you should see Men Behind the Sun, which shows and recreates actual footage of the experiments that the Japanese did to the Chinese and Mongolians during WWII. In one account, they put a guy in a pressure chamber and his guts shoot out his bum, and in another a Japanese scientist impregnates a Chinese girl and then tests on both her and his baby! Real accounts of crazy stuff.
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ruby
Promising
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crazed swede
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posted August 05, 2006 04:53 PM |
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Quote:
If you think that film is bad, you should see Men Behind the Sun, which shows and recreates actual footage of the experiments that the Japanese did to the Chinese and Mongolians during WWII. In one account, they put a guy in a pressure chamber and his guts shoot out his bum, and in another a Japanese scientist impregnates a Chinese girl and then tests on both her and his baby! Real accounts of crazy stuff.
No, no no...you got me wrong! I don't think the film is bad at all. It just made me think a bit.
I will check that movie out though. It sounds like it would make me think a little bit more. In this country, they hide everything away like they're ashamed of it, which they should be. But I hate not knowing what has been going on in the world, even when I wasn't alive. It's good stuff to know.
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posted August 05, 2006 04:55 PM |
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If you are going to school here in Israel it is a must for you to see all of the WWII, nazi and racism related movies ever made. Of course we are just kids and while the teachers may think that showing this movies to us is very intelectual as we watch those movies we learn only to hate the german people back and think that they are all evil and hide their tails in their pants and their horns beneath the hair.
Today if any german person pops up in one of our conversations between me and my friends it goes something like that, "Hey did you see Real Madrid almost signed Balack!?" another replies "What do they need that nazi for? They have enough strikers."
I can tell you it was like a little national holiday here when germany was knocked away from the world cup, everybody wanted them to lose so bad.
In short germany will always be the country of nazism, rasicm and a bunch of mercyless people. What they have done during WWII will take many more years for us to forget. And by the way I lost my two grandfathers in the war one of them was a pilot and he was struck down during one of the battles in Russia and the second one was killed by a bomb during the big siege on Leningrad when people starved there to death like... I don't even have a word.
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ruby
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crazed swede
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posted August 05, 2006 05:18 PM |
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Quote:
If you are going to school here in Israel it is a must for you to see all of the WWII, nazi and racism related movies ever made. Of course we are just kids and while the teachers may think that showing this movies to us is very intelectual as we watch those movies we learn only to hate the german people back and think that they are all evil and hide their tails in their pants and their horns beneath the hair.
Today if any german person pops up in one of our conversations between me and my friends it goes something like that, "Hey did you see Real Madrid almost signed Balack!?" another replies "What do they need that nazi for? They have enough strikers."
I can tell you it was like a little national holiday here when germany was knocked away from the world cup, everybody wanted them to lose so bad.
In short germany will always be the country of nazism, rasicm and a bunch of mercyless people. What they have done during WWII will take many more years for us to forget. And by the way I lost my two grandfathers in the war one of them was a pilot and he was struck down during one of the battles in Russia and the second one was killed by a bomb during the big siege on Leningrad when people starved there to death like... I don't even have a word.
That's another problem of today, that we're not letting the Germans forget it. I am not saying that we should just throw it under the carpet and hope no one digs it out again, but 98% of the current German population don't think it is right what Hitler did and we can't really keep bringing it up like its their fault. It was a fault in society, they were mislead. I have seen the actual photos taken from the ghettos during the Holocaust, pictures that were shown to the Germans to assure that the Jews were treated nicely in seclusion, so we weren't the only ones that were mislead.
I do understand we will never forget and we shouldn't, but I know many Germans that would cry at the sound of Hitler's voice, ashamed of what they did, even though they didn't even live at the time of the Holocaust. That's what they are known for in either sense of the word.
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Gom_Jabbar
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posted August 05, 2006 06:34 PM |
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That's a really touching subject Ruby. Here's a confession: I'm From Romania!!! Ever heard of it. Probably not, even if it's quite in the center of Europe. You know what our capital city is: Bucharest, even if so many of you tend to think is Budapest(that's in Hungary btw).
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Racism. It happens every day. Sometimes, it's good to step out of the little box that America and Europe has plopped down into.
Quite correct. Racism happens every day. It happens to us romanians. It happens to us in Belgium, Sweeden, Germany, France, Italy and so on. So, yes, Europe did put us in a box with a name on it: scum. How do I feel about that you ask? Not very good, but I'm very forgiving because I have something called empathy, so I'm able to understand their hate.
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ook on the internet, study it hard instead of wasting time on your iPod and your brand new car, or your COACH purse.
More than 60% of our population can't afford a computer or an iPod(I'm not even mentioning a car or a house). Europe hates us because we are trying to get work in the EU. Europe hates us for trying to get a better life.
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Today if any german person pops up in one of our conversations between me and my friends it goes something like that, "Hey did you see Real Madrid almost signed Balack!?" another replies "What do they need that nazi for? They have enough strikers."
Why call a person a nazi without a proof. I really don't get it. Just because he's a german. Well, in that case, please call me a nazi too. In that case you should call americans nazis, because there are more NeoNazist organizations in the USA then all the rest of the world.
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I can tell you it was like a little national holiday here when germany was knocked away from the world cup, everybody wanted them to lose so bad.
Why answer hate with hate? Why even hate them for something happend in the past. Romania was allied with Germany in WWII. That sounds really bad right? The fact is we were allied with them trying to get Basarabia( now Republic of Moldova ) back from Russia. We were considered to be part of the Holocaust. The fact is that there were more jews saved by the Romanian state and romanian citizens then were deported(the ratio saved/deported is around 70/30). On the other hand romanians in WWII were killed by hungarians(our little holocaust), american bombing of civilian targets, german bombing and russian occupation. We should hate them all right? Well we don't. Israel, an otherwise welthy country, is trying to make Romania pay a large sum of money for all the victims of the Holocaust. Then we should ask Russia for more then twice that money because there were more than twice romanians deported and killed by them than jews deported(not killed) by us in WWII.
Israel blames us for letting general Antonescu( Romania's prime-minister during WWII) to power. But the fact is he did not get the power to be able to kill jews (wich he didn't) but to get our lands back.
None of us are saints. Right now afgan and irakian people are dying because of american occupation, right now innocent people are dying in Lebanon due to israelian bombing, right now people are dying in Africa because wealthy countries don't give a damn about them. The fact is that 2% of the worlds population holds 98% of the worlds wealth, and for them is profitable for people to die and we are too blind to see that.
Note: I wasn't trying to offend anyone, so if any of you feel offended I'm sorry, I was just trying to show my personal point of view.
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JoonasTo
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posted August 05, 2006 06:36 PM |
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Have either of you two actually met a german and asked him/her about Hitler?
Before you have you can't even think how much they shame that what has happened. Even if they are born in 90's or 80's and even if their parents haven't lived then. Many of them would do anything to get it back.
And if we are talking about massacres think Stalin who murdered 15 million.
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posted August 05, 2006 06:48 PM |
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Quote:
Why call a person a nazi without a proof. I really don't get it.
Well Gom I'm not saying that we enjoy calling the german people nazis especialy not me one of the brightest in my gang, but it's just the way things are each and every day. That is our view of germany and the fact that most of the people there are not nazis, they are still 100% nazis to us.
I met a lot of people from Romania on the internet and connected well with all of them. You are nice people and that is the first time that I hear about hate towards romanian people, it would be nice to know more so I would ask around.
By the way, you are right. We have thousands of illegal romanian citizens living in Israel working at low payment jobs for many hours a day and under horrible conditions, always on the run from the immigration police. That is so sad that they cannot proide well for their families back in their own country.
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angelito
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posted August 05, 2006 07:33 PM |
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Only short post from me coz i have to leave...will be back later and probably response a bit more.
Everyone who thinks germans are still Nazis should try to get pictures and movies from the football worldcup. Or even better, ask "foreigners" who visited germany that time, how they have been treated here. Most of them would never had imagined how nice and peacefull germany and their people could be. "We" created 12 years of horrible history, but u can be sure, 99% of us learned their lesson, especially all the kids in school. Sure there are still idiots who think everything was better when germany was under Hitlers regime. But don't u have such braindeads in every country?
Most of you even can't imagine how hard we try to get rid of any "political" group refering to nazi-germany.
Although we are a democracy and everybody has the right to give his opinion, we "hate" every form of nacism. You even break a law here in germany if u deny the existence of concentration camps and what horrible actions took place there.
But how many generations should be blamed for those historical "inhumanity"?
I think it is pretty lame to blame a 3rd or even 4th generation of people in a country for the faults happened 60 years ago. You wanna make a 10 year old child responsible for what happened in WW2?
And i'm pretty sure not all israelis think about germany that way. I know some jews, and i also know a few jewish organizations here in munich. The way they talk about germany is way different from the way you wrote above TnT.
And yes, it is always sad to hear of a family member died in a war. But u really think every german soldier (especially the 14 -16 year old boys who were recruited the last year of the WW2) was "glad" to go into war an die there?
Maybe some more lines later.....
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posted August 05, 2006 07:48 PM |
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I am only telling the truth about how it is back here :/
Although I myself am very well informed about what is going on in the world I can't deny the fact that most of the people here are still prejudice and I seriously do not think anything is going to change their views about germany once they were made. 
If you were to watch a movie where 50 kids playing outside enjoying themselves suddenly get stuffed into a german gas chamber on wheels (they had cars with isolated trunks to which they connected the exaust pipe and suffocated people to death, but it wasted too much money on gasoline so they quit using them) just because they were born to jewish mothers and the teachers explain to you how unhuman the german people were back then killing helpless children and women, and nothing about how nice they are today you would feel the same as most of us israelies...
Not relative Angelito but relatives, 2 grandfathers and my granmother also died after a tough case of stomache cancer when I was 3 years old because she had to survive in Leningrad eating rat and cat meat and lousy bread slices made of wood peelings and some low percent of wheat for over a year.
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GullyNita
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posted August 05, 2006 08:30 PM |
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I am from poland so i feel hurt inside cause of world war 2....
Bialystok
theres a song and it gose like this
Jeszcze polska nie zginela
kiedy my zyjemy
it means poland not gone cause we are still alive!
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Gom_Jabbar
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posted August 05, 2006 10:35 PM |
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I'm with you all the way on this one Angelito.
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ruby
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crazed swede
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posted August 05, 2006 11:35 PM |
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I am glad to see people responding to this, I really am. It may be a touchy subject, but it's something to learn about too.
Gom_Jabbar-
I do sympathize because I am from Sweden myself and I know how horribly they treat other countries (especially Israel). I am very against what they do and I do have a couple of friends who live in Romania and I hear their stories.
When I say that people should stop focusing on expensive things, I was mostly referring to the USA and Europe. I do understand that many countries can't afford stuff like that, so I wasn't really directing the comment towards that.
Going back to racism, I do see it here in the states a lot more then I did when I first moved here, but in Sweden, it's terrible. Just reading the comments they leave every here and there on websites, message boards, bulletins, the news, even in local papers...it just bothers me. The hate from the holocaust and from all the other tradegies of this world are still alive it seems, and a third World War wouldn't be a surprise.
JoonasTo-
Yes I have asked an actual German about the holocaust and Hitler. They are ashamed, very ashamed..but I don't want them to be because it obviously wasn't their fault. If I was talking to a modern day Nazi that thinks the past was no biggie, they'd probably be gasping for air...but that's another story.
Yes, what happened with Stalin was another tradegy too, but then again there are lots more tradegies around the world that need to be talked about.
angelito-
It is entirely lame to call a 10 year old a nazi and blame them for WW2, I agree, but there are still people that do. Ignorance? Most definately. We can throw a little stupidity in there too.
My dad's company was bought by a German man who then bought us a house in the states, bought us a car, made my dad president of the company...wow. What a nazi. He had also been pointed fingers at before because he was a rich powerful man. I have met nicer people in Germany then I have in the US (and Sweden).
TnT-
I know it's horrible what happened to not just your relatives, but the people that we're plagued by the nazi's, but really, there is no one left to blame now. We can't go to Germany (I am not saying that you are doing anything wrong btw)
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Consis
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posted August 06, 2006 01:23 AM |
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Edited by Consis at 01:24, 06 Aug 2006.
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Hmm . . .
Ruby,
You inspire hope in me that a young person would be motivated to learn about history. And not just any history, but one in which the dregs of humanity were in control and power over 7 million Germans. Perhaps the future is not so grim after all.
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ruby
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crazed swede
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posted August 06, 2006 04:55 AM |
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Quote:
Ruby,
You inspire hope in me that a young person would be motivated to learn about history. And not just any history, but one in which the dregs of humanity were in control and power over 7 million Germans. Perhaps the future is not so grim after all.
You don't even know how happy that makes me to hear that! I never try to hog attention from people, but if I get attention for saying something that means a lot to me, then that brightens my world.
I do hope the future is not as grim as I picture it. I am planning to leave high school my last year and go to a private art school which is actually a collage for kids who can pass tests to get out their senior year. I am personally tired of being surrounded by snobby rich kids (99% of the population in this town) and I want to learn more about what's important. That's just who I am. The holocaust is more important to me then MTV music awards.
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Trogdor
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posted August 06, 2006 08:06 AM |
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Most racism these days are taught on the streets through illegal Neo-Nazi DVDs and music. It is through the black market that Neo-Nazism is slowly growing, especially in Europe.
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Frick
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and eternal n00b.
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posted August 06, 2006 08:59 AM |
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Edited by Frick at 09:11, 06 Aug 2006.
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Quote:
Most racism these days are taught on the streets through illegal Neo-Nazi DVDs and music. It is through the black market that Neo-Nazism is slowly growing, especially in Europe.
Oh yes. The place where I finished school (very small, like 6300 inhabitants or something) acutally had SEVERAL ACTIVE nazi-groups. They used to throw parties next to my apartment, and it was just scary.
Another scary thing is that here in Sweden the more-or-less-Nazi political partys are growing rapidly.. This year they even aim for the parlament.
Antoher scary thing: A professor in history in Sweden once went out and said that the holocaust is a freud. "You can't really prove it really happened". I've also heard intelligent young kids state this over and over again.
The bottom line: This world sucks.
EDIT: Here's the article:
http://files.upl.silentwhisper.net/upload2/ff.txt
It's in swedish though.. I don't have time to translate it, maybe later, but here's something:
Prof. "It has been said that millions were killed in the gas-chambers. But experts have excamined the chambers, and they never worked"
"What experts?"
Prof. "Different experts."
"THere's very strong evidence that the holocaust did happen."
Prof. "There are no documents that proves it."
"And the tens of thousands of witnesses?"
Prof. "There were witnesses around the witchhunts (y'know during the 15-17:th century) too. These were incorrect."
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Consis
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Of Ruby
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posted August 06, 2006 03:01 PM |
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Good Thread
Plain and simple.
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GullyNita
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posted August 06, 2006 04:02 PM |
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Ya.
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Evil has surived
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Ecoris
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posted August 06, 2006 10:11 PM |
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A minor detail Frick: The article states that he's a professor of law (is that the english term?) not history. It is still a shame though that these historical revisionists (like Irving) exist. I don't think such people or neo-nazi groups pose any threat in modern Europe, they're clearly a minority, in Denmark you practically never hear about them. I guess this version of history is believed by more people in the moslem world (just think of what Ahmedinejad has said). But this is clearly connected with their view upon the state Israel.
I don't think that the beliefs of such groups are the cause of hate; I think you're using the word hate in a too broad sense. Afterall history tells us that Hitler did not arrange the murder of 6 million jews because he hated them, he actually (and very detestably) felt he did the world a favor...
But it was not hate or racism (but rather anti-semitism) that drove him.
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