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| Thread: Inferno Guide: Advanced strategies. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Izzachar
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 18, 2006 04:39 AM |
bonus applied. |
Edited by Izzachar at 13:46, 18 Aug 2006.
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Inferno Guide: Advanced strategies.
So alot off ppl consider Inferno to be the underpowered race. Maybe thats a fact maybe its not. I dont think so. I win with them more then 50% (at ToH that is so not completely noobs I play with) if it makes me a good player or inferno not underpowered I cannot say. I think many ppl dont see the possibilities with inferno and what makes them a good faction. Therefore I thought I would write this guide or strategy guide to encourage ppl to use inferno and see its possibilities without deleb. Just some weeks ago I only saw Deleb myself but during the last weeks intense playing I began to realize what I think inferno is about. I havent even played 50 MP games so far maybe not even 30. However allmost all games have been with inferno. I dont know that much about the other factions (except how to counter them) but I
consider myself to know quite alot about inferno. OK enough intro talkin, I will talk to much BS during this guide anyway. Here goes.
--Intro--:
Alot off ppl complain that infrno is week vs neutrals and hard to build. I dont agree. Firstly resources you have on hard are enough to build key structures and you can get capitol as soon as you reach town lv 15 (gotta take some gold from chests) and at the same time have castle before that next week. Its often necessary to build a resource silo in week 2 or three depends on how much gold you have, but often much easier then capping a sulfur deposit. On heroic inferno have a hard time but I think this isnt the "standard" difficulty so I will treat this starting guide and the rest of the
guide as if it was played on hard. Thats normal difficulty for me and many others. Also ppl say their creatures lack, but I will give my opinions on them later.
[Infernos strategy]
Its all about their racial special. Hellfire + consume corpse and gating. Even that "awfull" mark of the damned helps you.It says hellfire depends on SP and stack size but I havent noticed that much. 1 imp can deal more then 100 damage with searing flames early lvs. Thers nothing better then seeing one gated imp kill 10-15 conscripts.
--The Start--
The start is a bit "micromatic" but very doable, lots of gating, lots of planning not to get the imps killed. The very first thing you should get is hellfire. If there are some XP shrines or chests for free get them before anything else. You really should get hellfire before doing anything else if you can, if you cant get it take mark of the damned. At latest you should have hellfire at lv 5. taking one "wrong" gating ability, one starting skill ability. And another lv gating + hellfire. Hellfire is key prioritize it, ignore whatever else is offerd.
[Fighting neutrals]
Gate and make use off hellfire. Shield you creatures with gated units, steal retaliations with the gated units or demons. Demons are expandable, ask youself what good they ever did in end game battles anyway. With their low initiative and low speed and crappy damage their best usage is to save the rest of your creaures. Often they get to act in time to steal that retaliation =) They can also be used as shields for your creatures instead off gated units as high initiative creatures will reach you before gating is complete.
Slow melee units: easy, hellfire + gating do the work
Shooters: Make small stacks off imps ~5 each. gate them in and hinder the shooters. attack them with the 1-2 gated creatures hope for hellfire. Have one large stack demons, shooters sometimes attack them instead othertimes the imps. Move the demons near shooters or gate them. Move imps to. watch out for ranged melle range as they will often target "real" creatures before gated ones. Your gated creatures might die before all shooters are gone. At this stage you might loose some imps to shooters to take those first important mines but its ok.
High initiative melle: the biggest threat as you have no shooter and only slow gating and slow shielders for you imps, demons. You will have high losses vs them. Either wait untill later or sacrifice some off what you got. Try keeping demon losses high and rest low.
* Several stacks off imps = more chances off hellfire both from gated and normal units. still not to many, about 3-4, so you cant have them protected. Having 1 stack outside protection might be a good idea to steal high initiative units retaliations. If it gets hellfire even better.
* Grawl shines with his searing flames early game, get it! 100 bonus damage to marks men with a gated unit consisting off one imp is NICE =)
--Early game--
As I see it there are two paths to go.
* Cerberus
or
* Succbi mistresses
[Cerebus] = no retaliations, high initiative.
Vs slow units many small groups, gate them all and attack.
Vs ranged, 6 groups off 1 cerberus. You must have tactics here. Spread them out across the field. Attack with all 1 cerberus hope for some hellfire. If not they still block shooters. You often dont loose more then 4 cerberus this way, sometimes 1 or 2. Gate the main stack to where it seems to be needed, next turn be ready to attack or move it closer where it seem to be needed, not in melee range though. It can be a good idea to bring demons. Use them in that hard fight, usually someone guarding something you need badly, like access to underground in peninsula. Guard your cerberus with demons untill you get some gated stacks, then when time is right strike with full force.
Consider the hero nebiros, his special is great for this purpose as he starts with tactics. + 1 luck is ok, many ppl obviously never tried this hero out, they think his special makes the opponent unable to place his creatures (I thought that to first), its not true, he can place them as everyone else. Well then you think; he sucks! Well that aint true either. It negates the tactics ability so if the hero have tactics you can still use tactics with nebiros (and the other hero cant), something you VERY much want for those cerberus and this tactic. And a special thing you can do later in game as I will talk about later.
[Succubi mistresses] = chain shot, can attack 4 groups and have 30% chance hellfire to everyone off them.
Split in 3-4 stacks. Have equal groups or, 1 in 2 or 3 stacks and one main stack. Havent decided whats best yet really, think it might depend on what you are facing, for shooters stacks off 1 in each, keep main stack out of combat or split equal, try what works best vs what. Guard them with demons (loseable right) you wont use them much later anyway. Watch out for inferno neutrals they are immune to chain shot and most off them are high initiative. Cerberus is porobably your worst lv3 enemy.
Heroes off choice:
Grawl, for that easy access to searing flames.
Nymus, luck, if succubi get luck they deal double damage to all creatures in the chain very nice.
Maybe Jezebeth aswell, she does improve later on, now Im just focusing on the start. I never use her though, sorcery is just a bad skill for inferno.Remeber that its the first hit that counts with succubi, if this is within the full damage range the next creature will deal half that damage no matter the distance. Hellfire doesnt count, has individual chance of extra damage on every hit. So if theres a stack with one creature left in range and other stacks at half damage range, pick the nearest creature, you kill it + deal as much damage to the next stack anyway.
So just bash those neutrals with you chainshots + hellfire and searing
flames.
* Only bring either cerberus or mistresses to the field to begin with, its enough for you basic needs and keep the unupgraded at homePtherwise you gotta to some hero chaining and mess around to get both later on and it will mess upp your quick expanind wich is very important.
--Early - Mid Game--
As you got a sulfur resource silo at some point you should get succubi
mistresses and cerberus. Have a hero, hopefully you can get grok in town at some point delivering the new creature. After this point dont keep demons on main hero.Get attack and get tactics with your hero ASAP this lets you deal with shooters and even some casters. When you amassed larger numbers off cerberus you can take mages pretty easy, maybe even druids? havent dared taking them on yet. Learn what numbers you need to take pack and lots etc without risking to much. Normally you dont need to attack these kind of creatures, resources you find often keeps you castle developing if not it might be worth sacrificing some cerberus to get that resource, same goes for nice artifacts.
A hero with 20 cerberus and 4 succubi can be enough, off course at this point nothing is stopping you from having a larger army. 20 cerberus can get alot of work done especially with grawl. With other heroes you might need more off them, still in week 3 beginning of 2nd month you have 32+ at you disposal more then enough. More succubi might be needed aswell, depends on size of neutrals, get the feeling for it. Dont have a larger army then you need. There are some reasons for this I get to it later. Scout the terrain, build your hero as fast as possible. Get resources, not mines, (unless they are guarded by something you can handle) just the resources lying around in map.
Hellfire drain lots of mana, try not to cast spells, use mark of the damned and when a stack dies corpse consume it. you see how good all those abilities fit with one another?! Almost makes you wanna cry.
--Mid Game--
Your starting to lurk around in terrotory that belongs to no-one. Anytime your opponent my pop out from the dark and attack you.
Well you are doing fine scouting and boosting your hero with you low army. It might feel threatening to have an army consisting of 4-10 succubi, 20-30 cerberus. At this stage off the game theres no need to worry about units like green dragons or mages with alot of initiative, so if you are attacked you wont be in any trouble at all, in fact this is what you want.
At this point in the game you shouldnt only lurk in "neutral" territory you should lurk in the enemies as soon as you can. With that small army? YES! Dont bother much about your own territory go straight for his at this point, pretty much directly after getting both mistresses and cerberus. The reason doing so? You will boost you hero on his land, taking his chests etc visiting those arenas.
So you are attacked! What know?
If enemy hero have high initiative and high speed creatures. Split cerberus in groups off 1s, have 1 main group staying behind and one group succubi. If not split them in equal stacks on the front line, succubi still in one group. Spread them out along the line, try to figure out whats the best way to place them to ensure as many as possible can attack.
Combat start: Attack with "all" cerberus. If you get one three headed attack that 3*30% making a hellfire. so there are some chances getting a hellfire. ~3 hellfires are theoretically what you should get thats more then 300 damage at this point. If not vs faction with high speed units count those 20-30 cerberus in aswell, unless he is dumb enough to not realize whats going on and kill one stack with 1 cerberus then your 16 others will deal that damage anyways 
Vs Haven and Dungeon nebiros has a great advantage here. Even though they have tactics you can use this strategy. All other heroes tactics would have been nullified. There is some risk necro can have this but in my experience they most often go for other skills and even other abilities within the attack skill. Even without tactics and nebiros you will reach if his creatures are at the second row, like large creatures, or blockers. But having 1 more step can make the difference between a threeheaded attack and hitting just once.
VS others Grawl is abosultely awesome here, searing flames + cerberus
booster.
After you attacked with all off them, or as many as you could before he can hurt you. You retreat and pay him money so that you can escape with your creatures. (he wont have schackles at this point). So whats the cost for this? 1 cerberus is 80 gold. 20 = 1600 and about 200 for the 4 succubi. 1800 gold thats nothing! Lets say you dealt 300 damage (this is probably minimum damage with grawl, and the shield of ince crystal suck on emeny hero ) during that attack it probably equals, the amounth you paid, in losses for him. And still he lost creautres and you lost nothing. Well if he has high initiative creatures you might loose one or two cerberus 
Now you returned to your home, now its time to buy whatever army you need to feel safe, and start getting boosters from your territory and chests etc etc. Before all that happens its important not to let enemy hero slip through and towards you castle. Scouting is very imporatant. If somehow something should go very wrong, attack whatever hero or enemy town you see and pay retreat and go home.
Live of the fat of the land. Your land. Just boost hero. Buy upgrades, mage guild.
--Late game-- (this is lv 15-17 usually as I see it)
After getting what you need at home, spells, creatures, maybe also that artifact that was guarded by high lv creature wich you had your eyes on the entire game its time to attack. Hopefully you will be better off at this point considering you killed some off his army before and that you have a better hero, stat, artifact and spell wise.
--Creatures--
So infernos creatures are week? lets have another look at them.
[Imp] ok lv 1 unit, nice initiative.
[Familiar] have more damage then some lv 2 units! 50% more hp then its cousin the imp and 100% damage! Dont use them to much without upgrading even if it might be necessay early game. Its much better at dealing damage then your demons. Great initiative to. Their mana stealing ability compliment the hellfire ability very well. If you get jumped and is low on mana they will bring some for you. Also they steal enemies mana great vs lopw knowledge factions.
[Horned Demon]
This unit is only good for one thing as I see it, trade losses in other creatures for it. Steal retaliations, guard you week cerberus and imps. In that way it is good  Because if you only once make a misstake and your imps or cerberus get attcked you will suffer great losses. It has almost as much HP as the cerberus and better defense make use off it.
[Overseers]
I never upgrade to overseers there are better things spending money on. Thats just me maybe someone have excellent use for them?
[Hell hound]
A pretty week creature. Damage is ok. Initiative is great. Upgrade before you ever use them.
[Cerberus]
No retaliation, three headed attack, 13 initative, 8 speed wich is enough to reach enemy front lines directly, not enough to reach neutral shooters, get tactics or if you see windstrider boots nearby. Works excellent with hellfire vs neutrals in many stacks.
[Succubus]
Well an ok ranged creature nothing much to say about it. upgrade asap
[Succubus Mistresses]
Chain shot + hellfire = excellent. If you get bless in mage guild keep 2 stacks with 1 in these are for hellfire procs. And a 3rd stack with all the rest, cast bless and increase damage output.
[Hell Chargers]
Low hp. Awesome initiative, nice damage, fear attack.
As doomforge says they can make some nice things with soldiers luck =)
enough speed to reach enemy front lines.
[Nightmares]
Better hp, better damage, frightaura. Since they have so low hp they will get killed quickly however with swift gating you might be able to gate and attack before they suffer to much losses. You should never gate them if you dont have swift gating. Charge in block a shooter if you can, make use off fright aura. This creatures atrributes are perfect for attacking and weakening the stack of your choice. Initiative ensures it will always act first in combat
[Pit fiends]
Not exactly my favoutire creature, their initiative isnt that good and their spells arent super, mid game they can bring some punch but later they are almost better to teleport assault and attack in melee with. Gate them always nice getting some extra tank on the field and another vulnerability caster.
[Pitlords]
Same as pitfiends but better
They both compliment inferno pretty good, standing in the back while rest is at fron attacking.
[Devils]
Most often you wont get them. They are ok. they have 7 speed. Meaning that if planed carefully you can attack with nightmares and cerberus in a way making a creature move so that you devils can reach them when its theri turn.
[Arch devils]
I never had them in MP cant say anything about them.
[Summin it upp]
Most creatures have low health, more damage, and great initiative. Make use off it either by swift gating or by attacking directly. Compliment the attacking units with the others. Inferno is the attacking faction the other one defends, base your tactics around that. Inferno should attack ASAP to make best use of hellfire and their two best upgraded craetures, cerberus and succubus, after that the opponent can only grown in strength compared to you and hellfire and by upgrading his creatures.
Faction counters
[Haven]
vs haven I really like deleb. She has another ranged wich is just so
important. Haven also is a very strong faction wich is pretty easy to expand with also they like to use their archers. Having better economy, upgraded cretures, swift gating and dark magic is very important. Attacking them straight on might be suicide. Imps will probably drain most off haven heros mana.
"The ballista will be targeted first" many say this well thats wonderfull haven have 2 units this early in the game that can kill it - archers, maybe priests/inquisitors aswell. Archers initiative is 8 if you got mass slow expert lv its reduced to 4!! So even if they do attack it you can feel safe for awhile. Gate in all your creatures. Haven have three main damage dealers this early in game, cavaliers, archers and griffins. With swift gating they wont kill as much as you gate in. Debuff with dark magic, use ballista and first aid tent wisely. And you have a VERY good chance.
You have room for 1-3 skills more after. logistics + swift gating and dark magic. use them for luck or leadership.
[Sylvian]
Mass confusion or mass suffering is nice if you get it it really helps. Mass spells overall are nice. Sylvian with light magic is the most dangerous you can face. Trust your cerberus and nightmares to deal much damage, try and avoid archers double range if you can. Focus on archers and unicorns. Hopefully using above strategies he might not have higher lv spells yet becuase he havent been to town, like righteous might so if you get suffering its awesome.
Heroes - alastor he must get dark magic, abit of gamble. He can atleast drain the druids even without it.
Grawl works fine so does other heroes.
[Necro]
Dark magic Is good vs necro. wekness-slow-suffering all good vs those archers.
Block liches.
If raise dead hero, spread damage first, then focus on one stack, when its dead stand on it and consume corpse =) Get to archers as quick as possible.
Any hero really.
[Academy] Dont know really  just owned them ones vs a not very good player, seems to be played not that much.
[Dungeon]
Greatest threat is sinitar as I see it. Gating doesnt work here.
Nebiros might be a good choice not tested yet though. Becuase you gotta get your creatures spread out within his lines so he cant AoE spell you to death.
Blood maidens often die extremely quick no real threat. gate pit fiends you need vulnerability vs hydras. Block shooter.
Now Im getting tired its damn late =)
Hope this inspired somone.
Goodnight.
Might add some pictures and more info later.
added creature section.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 18, 2006 10:09 AM |
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now that's a good guide, dude.
I can't play now (don't have the cd) but I'm gonna try all the heroes when I get it back. I love cerberi, the do a lot of damage, and the hound master can help them survive a bit longer, i guess.
Oh, one thing, try to get nightmares in your main aswell, they are GREAT if you manage to get soldier's luck. Without deleb and tent, they can't take a beating, tho, so better not charge with them.
inferno has the best heroes (many good specialities) so it may be a good thing to test them all.
Ah yes, would be glad to see an academy guide too. I like their design, the music, etc, but the faction lacks a strong punch, I guess. ;(
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted August 18, 2006 10:38 AM |
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nice guide Izzachar ... still trying to find you on Ubi for a game 
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FenixFire
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 18, 2006 10:39 AM |
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You must have put a lot of work into this guide! Great job! Still, isn't it supposed to be Nebiros instead of Nymus in this sentence?
Quote:
Heroes off choice:
Nymus, luck, if succubi get luck they deal double damage to all creatures in the chain very nice.
Just mentioning it though, might confuse some people (like me ).
In any case, great job!
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted August 18, 2006 11:10 AM |
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you made me take another look at the infernal creatures ... I must say the initiative is impressive, but the damage is low  ... Nightmares are great , maybe best lvl 5 in the game , but they have less HPs than inquisitors, which are shooters & casters. When they come near the marksmen they will all die in one shot! Same problem for the cerberus, great initiative , low dmg , low hps ! One shot from the marksmen and they are history ...
And against sylvan's master hunters, same problems !
Or the hundreds and thousands of skel archers from necropolis.
Or the meteor showers and Implosions from dungeon ...
I guess your best chances stand in the imps ... if they drain enough mana , you can put you dark magic to good use, and get your stats above the stats of your opponent. Otherwise you are pretty much dead !
So in my oppinion your worst opponents are :
Necropolis because of great ranged and creatures imune to many spells and Sylvan because of great ranged and huge knowledge !
And heaven and dungeon might become even deadlier opponents if the map has knowledge artifacts or knowledge +1 buildings.
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Izzachar
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 18, 2006 12:00 PM |
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Edited by Izzachar at 14:09, 18 Aug 2006.
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Quote:
You must have put a lot of work into this guide! Great job! Still, isn't it supposed to be Nebiros instead of Nymus in this sentence?
Quote:
Heroes off choice:
Nymus, luck, if succubi get luck they deal double damage to all creatures in the chain very nice.
Just mentioning it though, might confuse some people (like me ).
In any case, great job!
No I did mean Nymus, he starts with luck and its a pretty good asset for inferno. Not only resourcefullness is good for inferno but luck works nice with succubi. Having 30% chance dealing double damage and 30% chance scoring hellfire isnt that bad. And as doomforge said soldiers lcuk + nightmares =)
Yes dungeon is very dangerous for inferno.
Necros have low initiative it helps you a bit.
And most certainly there isnt one faction easy to beat. thats what I like about this game I think its pretty balanced.
About nightmares as soon as you have played that first battle vs your enemy you should get them naturally. But before its not good as creatures will retaliate against them you will lose some off them.
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Unixmage
Known Hero
Demon Slayer
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posted August 18, 2006 02:23 PM |
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Inferno is not weak. But I never had any "Muhahahahaha I am the dark lord" moments of insane power with them like I have with necropolis. Gating and hellfire are the most important and as long as you don't have units from other factions succubus mistresses plus gated and phantom ones seem to be the one true reliable way of damaging you opponent.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 18, 2006 03:12 PM |
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Quote:
you made me take another look at the infernal creatures ... I must say the initiative is impressive, but the damage is low ...
Actually, it's the highest amongst the towns, further augumented by gating and demonlord's high attack rating, making it the most powerful melee castle available. The only problem is that damage is spread a lot with no access (or poor access) to divine strength, which would help a lot.
Quote:
Nightmares are great , maybe best lvl 5 in the game , but they have less HPs than inquisitors, which are shooters & casters. When they come near the marksmen they will all die in one shot!
Not if they can block them ;P And even if they can't, who cares. Via gating, you can have two stacks of them, which can possibly cast fear on two enemy stacks, making them totally useless. Fear totally screws ATB bar, you know. Nothing better than to frighten paladins and gryphs ;D That's why I like soldier's luck that much. Oh, and inquisitors are durable, but their damage is only a bit better than horned overseers, so I don't think it's a good example of a powerful unit.
Quote:
Same problem for the cerberus, great initiative , low dmg , low hps ! One shot from the marksmen and they are history ...
That's true, yes, but you have to choose between destroying ballista and reducing the stacks of cerberi, and which one would you take? Deleb's ballista can give hell to your marksmen and nearby units, you know. And then a fireball from pitlords comes and bam, all squires surrounding marksmen are dead. zomg.
Quote:
And against sylvan's master hunters, same problems !
Or the hundreds and thousands of skel archers from necropolis.
Or the meteor showers and Implosions from dungeon ...
Every castle has the same problems. Skel archers will rape everything, if necropolis has enough time to gather enough of them.
Quote:
I guess your best chances stand in the imps ... if they drain enough mana , you can put you dark magic to good use, and get your stats above the stats of your opponent. Otherwise you are pretty much dead !
Don't underestimate the power of hell.
Quote:
So in my oppinion your worst opponents are :
Necropolis because of great ranged and creatures imune to many spells and Sylvan because of great ranged and huge knowledge !
And heaven and dungeon might become even deadlier opponents if the map has knowledge artifacts or knowledge +1 buildings.
I wouldn't say academy is the only opponent for inferno. i'd rather say inferno is the worst enemy of haven, because it's the only castle that can match haven's offensive potential while having better heroes and better specials. The main problem lies in no cleansing at units, and poor chance of getting some useful lightmagic spells at guild, which leads to happy-frenzycasting-nightmare by necropolis, or something like that.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 18, 2006 03:24 PM |
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Quote:
Inferno is not weak. But I never had any "Muhahahahaha I am the dark lord" moments of insane power with them like I have with necropolis. Gating and hellfire are the most important and as long as you don't have units from other factions succubus mistresses plus gated and phantom ones seem to be the one true reliable way of damaging you opponent.
Well not exactly but defeating an army of pack squires,archers and several griffins with several imps is VERY satisfying.Mark of the damned ->excuciating strike and gating 7 imps(divided of course) can cause serius damage.With Agrael marking enemy's emeralds(talk about defence!) caused them to die about 3 at a round from both attacking and retaliating And there were 15 of them.
Phantom ones?You get sorcery or summoning for a demon lord?!
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 18, 2006 07:06 PM |
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Edited by Shauku83 at 19:07, 18 Aug 2006.
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Quote:
Quote:
Inferno is not weak. But I never had any "Muhahahahaha I am the dark lord" moments of insane power with them like I have with necropolis. Gating and hellfire are the most important and as long as you don't have units from other factions succubus mistresses plus gated and phantom ones seem to be the one true reliable way of damaging you opponent.
Well not exactly but defeating an army of pack squires,archers and several griffins with several imps is VERY satisfying.Mark of the damned ->excuciating strike and gating 7 imps(divided of course) can cause serius damage.With Agrael marking enemy's emeralds(talk about defence!) caused them to die about 3 at a round from both attacking and retaliating And there were 15 of them.
Phantom ones?You get sorcery or summoning for a demon lord?!
Two Heroes start with Sorcery, and Jezebeth already has Magic Insights too. The best reason to choose that skill is definately when the spell Phantom Forces appears in your guild
And Izzachar you are my Hero! A very good post 
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted August 18, 2006 07:58 PM |
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as usually doomforge you totally disagree with me ... Best dmg of all towns ?! You must be kidding !
your main dmg dealers are Nightmares along with Cerberi.
8-16 dmg for nightmares and 4-6 for the cerberi ...
That doesnt seem the greatest dmg at all !
And you are missing my point about inquisitors and nightmares. A melee unit with lesser HPs than a shooter is very vulnerable ... and even though i said they are the best lvl 5, you cannot count on them for too long!
Skellies are not that great ... You should fear more the Marksmen!
And also I didn't say academy is the only opponent for inferno, just didn't mention them because I can't find a strategy that fits them & my style
I did say though that inferno has big problems when facing Sylvan or Necropolis(very difficult to win against these two with inferno), and if the knight or the warlock escapes the imps with 30+ SP , its the same story imho.
Of course this in equal hero conditions , meaning similar lvl and matching artifacts !
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Izzachar
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 19, 2006 03:14 AM |
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Edited by Izzachar at 04:10, 19 Aug 2006.
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thanks for kind words.
Chances getting phantom forces are so slim. Is it really worth leveling upp a hero having that in mind? Sorcery probably is the worst skill inferno can have IMO and they have two heroes starting with it! Dark magic for alastor please! I can only think off summoning beeing more useless
If you get phantom forces I reckon it would be imba with jezebeth.
Its nothing you can base a strategy around anyway
What makes cerberus good damage dealer is the three headed attack, utilize it and they deal lots and lots of damage.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 19, 2006 06:04 AM |
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Quote:
thanks for kind words.
Chances getting phantom forces are so slim. Is it really worth leveling upp a hero having that in mind? Sorcery probably is the worst skill inferno can have IMO and they have two heroes starting with it! Dark magic for alastor please! I can only think off summoning beeing more useless
If you get phantom forces I reckon it would be imba with jezebeth.
Its nothing you can base a strategy around anyway
What makes cerberus good damage dealer is the three headed attack, utilize it and they deal lots and lots of damage.
No, ofcource not, I didn't mean that either Sorcery or Summoning are picks for Inferno. I would never pick either of them, but two Heroes start with Sorcery. Phantom Forces with Jezebeth comes every now and then, because of Magic Insights, and if the Phantom Forces appears in the guild I could also take it for Alastor. Those are IF:s, but nevertheless there
And Summoning WAS a good choice for inferno before patch 1.2, aka before the Summon Elemental nerf...
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Izzachar
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 19, 2006 11:57 AM |
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Ah yes I know especially if you had the summon elementals ring backing your SP upp a bit. Now its useless though.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 19, 2006 12:04 PM |
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as usually doomforge you totally disagree with me ... Best dmg of all towns ?! You must be kidding !
I am not.
And I don't totally disagree with you, haven is strong, you're right. I just defend my beloved castle ;p
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your main dmg dealers are Nightmares along with Cerberi.
8-16 dmg for nightmares and 4-6 for the cerberi ...
That doesnt seem the greatest dmg at all !
check their initiative, my friend. They act 3 times more frequent than your beloved marksmen, plus their damage is actually quite good even without their initiative - for nightmares second best of lvl 5, and possibly good by cerberi, with so easy to perform double-attack (in h5, almost every attack can hit two or three enemies - in h3/h4, wasn't that easy)
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And you are missing my point about inquisitors and nightmares. A melee unit with lesser HPs than a shooter is very vulnerable ... and even though i said they are the best lvl 5, you cannot count on them for too long!
Ever heard of _first aid tent_ for creeping ? In main battle, well, they are not _that_ fragile, 66 hp is not that bad - it's not 40 hp of djinns, you know.
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Skellies are not that great ... You should fear more the Marksmen!
yeah, 106 dmg/week and below-average initiative. How "impressive". Sure, good for level 2, but nothing gamebreaking. Nightmares have 118 dmg/week with 16 points of initiative, and you say they don't do much damage - go figure if marksmen are a real problem if they do less and act rarely.
Battlefrenzied skellies with archery are gamebreakers, on the other hand, if their numbers are high and you don't have deflect missle and squires, and not all castles do. Sure, haven doesn't have that much problem with them, but other castles do Since confusion or blind won't work, you're pretty much screwed.
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And also I didn't say academy is the only opponent for inferno, just didn't mention them because I can't find a strategy that fits them & my style
I wish someone had an idea how to play academy, too.
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I did say though that inferno has big problems when facing Sylvan or Necropolis(very difficult to win against these two with inferno), and if the knight or the warlock escapes the imps with 30+ SP , its the same story imho.
why? Deleb owns sylvan with a simple quick nightmare-succub-cerberi rush, did you know that?
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Of course this in equal hero conditions , meaning similar lvl and matching artifacts !
then improve inferno army by about 50% due to gating. How's that? Someone did a chart once showing total damage of cities and inferno was the only one that exceeded 400 (was something like 170-420) while other cities did 200-350. So they can do a lot of damage, taking initiative AND gating into consideration..
Towerlord, you usually write good constructive points, but this time it was a total bullsnow regards
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted August 19, 2006 12:29 PM |
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I already said their initiative is impressive! Dmg on the other hand is not. Sure they will deal good dmg if you think bout' the fact they will act more time, but their pure dmg value is low... Very low even for Cerberus ! Sure they can attack more targets, but their dmg is one of the lowest of all lvl 3s ! It is lower than the dmg of the marksmen(actually equal, i say lower because of divine strength)...
Your rush may work on some maps, but it's not a sure thing...and if he gets icebolt , treants, master hunter and blade dancers you might be surprised of the outcome of the battle.
Gating 50% ?! you lose a turn whewn you are gating ... and by the time your gated arrive, many of your real troops are dead!
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 19, 2006 12:35 PM |
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cerberi get 70 dmg/week which isn't impressive,right, but attacking two targets gives you 140 dmg/week, which tops all other except master hunters. Plus hellfire. Plus 15 points of initiative. And occasional triple strike. Plus no retal. Plus high speed. As you can see, it's a very good unit, just very fragile.
About the "already dead" thing, that's wrong. Shooters have range penalties and their damage isn't too hot when shooting through whole map, and most units can't reach me in my first turn.. with swift gating, on the other hand, you'll get quickly overwhelmed. It's worth to lose some units to get a lot more gated ones. And remember, if you i.e. charge with paladins, they will get surrounded and whomped by normal+gated stacks. Not good to send one stack on the other side of the battlefield, it results in heavy focusfire and a quick death..
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted August 19, 2006 12:53 PM |
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I am sure you are wrong somewhere in your calculations about dmg / week.
I don't know where, but there is something wrong there!
My calculations would be something like this:
Marksmen
Normal - 12 * (2-8) = 60 avg dmg / week
Frenzied - 12 * (3-9) = 72 avg dmg / week
MAX - 12 * 8 = 96 max dmg/week
MAX Frenzied - 12 * 9 = 108 max * dmg / week
Nightmare - 3 * (8-16) = 36 avg dmg/week
MAX - 3 * 16 = 48 max dmg / week
Maybe you use 24 for marksmen , and 7 for nightmares ... Anyway I think the dmg of marksmen is more than impressive, and combined with precise shot it can take your Nightmares down very quick.
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scooter_me
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 19, 2006 03:42 PM |
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izzachar, your the best player ive played so far. (the 2 losses i got were because of me being bored, and doin stupid ass stuff to humor myself. so so far you've done the best of them all )
you we're real close to draining all my mana, (it was dungeon [sinitar] vs inferno) and i think you did GREAT with the amount of units and the amount of cash you had left over. you had like 10000 you didnt spend, and we're still hard as to beat when i was always at 0 cash. man you had more numbers with inferno than id expect from necromancers lol.
and yeah, it totally shows with the amount of effort you put into this strategy guide. well done man, i really look forward to a rematch with you hey. you had me on my toes so much i could barely leave my area hahaha
good work man
scotty-boi
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 19, 2006 04:28 PM |
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Gating 50% ?! you lose a turn whewn you are gating ... and by the time your gated arrive, many of your real troops are dead!
Actually with swift gating it's as if you wait and while demon lords have low defence come on-they DON'T die this fast.And there is always the chance you may face Marbas with exp defence and evasion.Divine strength is not always present and as long as you are not in the 3-tile range of marksmen you are not truly in mortal peril.BTW have you met no skirmishes?As in attacks with as little army as possible meant to cause damage(say to the not so invulnerable marksmen) and retreat.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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