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| Thread: is there interest in a one to 2 hour map that with elements of a 5 hour game | |
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jrholdt
Hired Hero
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posted August 22, 2006 07:56 AM |
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Edited by jrholdt at 08:03, 22 Aug 2006.
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is there interest in a one to 2 hour map that has elements of a 5 hour game
well i'm expecting map editor should be here atleast within the next month. Any way i came up with a idea to make a map that would allow 1 or 2 hour games. yet still let your heroes get to lvl 30 or so and allow you to have quite a few tuff creature battles before the final battle.
first my idea is to make the map large or xl with underground providing i am able to figure out map editor. the underground will only have one purpose and that will be a single one way monolith. the monolith will take you to a small room where another monolith exit is and this monolith will be the other players. any way to simplify things both players will simply be able to decide if at any time they wish to stop soon. and meet up in the room underground to have the final battle.
also i would plan on having a set of guards on each players side with another one way monolith for each player. my idea would be to make these guards extremly tuff. and the monoliths after the guards would take there hero to other players area.
providing the map editor allows a way for instant exp gains like pandoras boxes or something like them i think it would be neat to have instant exp available for both players to get to lvl 20 or maybe lvl 30.
also to make this work and ensure plenty of creatures both players would get 2 towns fully built at the start. 1 or 2 more towns would be available not built up to ensure no huge advantages for towns like haven using trainer abilitys.
would be great to hear some opinions on this idea and accually kind of surprized as far as i know no one attempted this on like heroes 3 maps. also i thought would be great to give boots for increaced movement at the start. and have maybe 2 utopias for each player plus many other guarded artifacts.
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted August 22, 2006 08:38 AM |
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nope ... this is just a little more than a duel ... too many things will miss: economy, need for clearing your area swifter(since you will meet whenever you wish), no posibility for surprise attacks, and also no sieges! If they make the duel heroes more customizable, I will choose a duel over this anytime!
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jrholdt
Hired Hero
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posted August 22, 2006 11:48 PM |
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Quote:
nope ... this is just a little more than a duel ... too many things will miss: economy, need for clearing your area swifter(since you will meet whenever you wish), no posibility for surprise attacks, and also no sieges! If they make the duel heroes more customizable, I will choose a duel over this anytime!
accually all guards would have to be set according to hero lvls so there would be no lvl 1's unless your fighting 2000 of them. utopias would be amoung the easiest fights. also there would be second option with monolith leading to your opponents towns. so yes there could be seiges. but that monolith would have really tuff guards thinking it would need like 500 skeletal dragons or maybe 1000.
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scooter_me
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 23, 2006 01:47 AM |
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im not personally interested sorry, but 1 thing i always say is that theres never only 1 person interested in a specific thing. you can usually always find someone who shares your ideas
i personally enjoy epic games that last 3 days, and might actually get you up to level 35  but have dearly missed them in heroes 5 
but this is only a temporary setback
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jrholdt
Hired Hero
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posted August 23, 2006 02:46 AM |
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Quote:
im not personally interested sorry, but 1 thing i always say is that theres never only 1 person interested in a specific thing. you can usually always find someone who shares your ideas
i personally enjoy epic games that last 3 days, and might actually get you up to level 35 but have dearly missed them in heroes 5
but this is only a temporary setback
i like the epic games but don't like the 3 days of playing it takes to get there lol.
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jb239
Famous Hero
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posted August 23, 2006 06:22 PM |
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It's a cool concept for variety.
You just need to be careful with the design.. because a hero with lots of movement and lots of difficult fights can = long turns.
But Im sure some people will play it for a change.
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I will not lose.
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jrholdt
Hired Hero
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posted August 23, 2006 11:07 PM |
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Edited by jrholdt at 23:11, 23 Aug 2006.
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well i been thinking the area to duel at would maybe not be worthe it instead just figure out guards that can be killed at like week 3 and have a 3rd built up town to ensure plenty of creatures. as far as the long turns your completly right jb but time limits stop that.
also considering you would start at a high lvl i beleive creature fights might go rather fast even when tuff ones.
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jb239
Famous Hero
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posted August 24, 2006 12:00 AM |
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Yeah I can see the concept working.. Just need to do the play testing to get it just right. But some of the most popular maps in Heroes 3 were "different" types of maps.. I.E. Hourglass.
I have a lot of ideas for maps, but just need that map editor.. and I hope it isn't difficult to use or else that'll hinder the map making experience.
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I will not lose.
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jrholdt
Hired Hero
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posted August 24, 2006 12:47 AM |
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as long as its taking them to release this map editor it should be easy enough for a 2 year old to use. it just better be here by the end of this month these current maps get quite boring.
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted August 24, 2006 10:46 AM |
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loook!
founda leak on the new ubisoft maps 1.3 !
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Patrel
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 27, 2006 07:40 PM |
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I'd be interested. I know alot of vets despise short games, but however much I like Homm I just don't have entire days on a regular enough basis to dedicate to such long games.
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It's beer-o-clock, where the hell's my riot?! - John Crichton
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jrholdt
Hired Hero
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posted September 15, 2006 06:56 AM |
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i just finished a test version of a map now and just need to test it out its rather plain map but was able to add spinx. one spinx gives 500k exp the other gives 50k gold.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted September 15, 2006 08:03 AM |
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So you basiclly removed all strategy and thinking and planning of game and running map into tap spinx become level 30 and go fight....
Coulda saved you a buncha time....UBI already done that. Its called DUELS mode. Or in the H3 days they called it BattleFest. Eitherway it wouldnt be a serious game...just a supped up final battle on day 2.
The evolution of building your army and hero is the best part of this game, and the part that sets aside the good players the great players and the average players.
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Betruger
Known Hero
empowered mind
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posted September 15, 2006 08:14 AM |
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jrholdt
Hired Hero
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posted September 15, 2006 09:05 PM |
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Edited by jrholdt at 21:26, 15 Sep 2006.
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Quote:
So you basiclly removed all strategy and thinking and planning of game and running map into tap spinx become level 30 and go fight....
Coulda saved you a buncha time....UBI already done that. Its called DUELS mode. Or in the H3 days they called it BattleFest. Eitherway it wouldnt be a serious game...just a supped up final battle on day 2.
The evolution of building your army and hero is the best part of this game, and the part that sets aside the good players the great players and the average players.
as far as strategy and thinking the spinx just gives you the exp to get to lvl 28 you have to choose all abilitys. also i beleive even with the 50k at the start and 3 utopias you will not enough gold to buy all creatures in 3 towns. But testing will tell.
no duels suck no comparison for them and there is utopias and 2 of each mine to take along with some artifacts. i may add a more to it but right now the goal is a map that is finishable in about 2 hours. 3 towns built fully at the start so you can finish quick and also there are 200 bone dragons that seperate you from your opponent.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted September 15, 2006 10:26 PM |
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Again no offense to you personally, but that is not a tournament grade game. I am sure you will have some people that enjoy the novelty of a game like that. But just like in Heroes 3....battlefest games were not tournament quality enough to count for tournament, and Duel games dont count for TOH. So since most people prefer having games that are worthy of TOH reporting, I dont think many will play it that much.
Atleast I would hope that Ves would stick to the no Duel type games counting for TOH.
Sorry just my opinion.
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jrholdt
Hired Hero
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posted September 15, 2006 10:33 PM |
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Edited by jrholdt at 22:40, 15 Sep 2006.
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Quote:
Again no offense to you personally, but that is not a tournament grade game. I am sure you will have some people that enjoy the novelty of a game like that. But just like in Heroes 3....battlefest games were not tournament quality enough to count for tournament, and Duel games dont count for TOH. So since most people prefer having games that are worthy of TOH reporting, I dont think many will play it that much.
Atleast I would hope that Ves would stick to the no Duel type games counting for TOH.
Sorry just my opinion.
[/quote/]
even if a game last till week 3 it can't be approved for toh. and its far from a duel map the fights are unbeleivably tuff. i did find out however i have to make the guards between players much tuffer cause ai broke thru the bone dragons week 1.
as far as like battlefest for h3 i wouldn't consider this much like that at all the reason for giving the gold at the start is to allow you purchase the creatures but i will be doing more testing to decide if thats to much gold.
Its also not like a duel at all you have only one way to get to your oppenent and thats a 1 way monolith whcih i think i will up to like 500 bone dragons maybe even tuffer.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted September 15, 2006 10:49 PM |
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hmm maybe I dont understand entirely.... so let me see...
3 towns allready fully built... so no building necesarry.
50k Free exp so no need to fight for any skills...simply need to choose them.
Free money to click and buy the freely built creatures.
THEN... I take the army that was all sitting there free and already built and payed for with free money and fight a couple Utopias then break and fight Opponent.
Apparently you never actually played BattleFest in H3. That is Exactly Exactly how a battle fest game was.
Even Land of Outcasts was banned because there wasnt enough game involved to qualify for Tournament Level.
Keep in mind I am not bashing you personally, just as a member of TOH, I dont want to spend hours playing and digging deep and busting my butt to earn a hard fought win or loss and watch people rip off 10 games a day on Duel type games and get same credit. The types of games you suggest could be fun....BattleFest was fun.. I say they will be great...BUT they shouldnt be allowed to be reported for serious tournament TOH games is all I am saying.
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jrholdt
Hired Hero
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posted September 16, 2006 12:00 AM |
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Quote:
hmm maybe I dont understand entirely.... so let me see...
3 towns allready fully built... so no building necesarry.
[yes 3 towns are almost fully built but you have to buy the creatures. you also only start with the 1 town have to take the others fighting castles. the 4th town i put in to give you the option of also building that up it only has fort allready built in it. and you have to buy some of the extra buildings for heroes primary abilitys.]
50k Free exp so no need to fight for any skills...simply need to choose them.
[500k exp the spinx gives you which puts you at lvl 28 and you have to choose skills isn't that what you do in normal games gain exp and choose skills and if you visit a learning stone you get 1000 exp free also in normal games?]
Free money to click and buy the freely built creatures.
[the 50k gold at the start from spinx i think i will remove btw i seen many maps where you can pick up free gold piles on the ground. my reasoning for using the spinx to give the gold rather then place on ground was to make the game faster going since you will not need to use second hero to run arround picking up gold.]
THEN... I take the army that was all sitting there free and already built and payed for with free money and fight a couple Utopias then break and fight Opponent.
[3 utopias right now and 2 of each mine each is guarded by 100 lvl 4's. i set it with 6 arenas each guarded by 50 random lvl 6's. then 4 spots for each player with artifacts guarded by lvl 6's and lvl 7's with huge amounts]
Apparently you never actually played BattleFest in H3. That is Exactly Exactly how a battle fest game was.
Even Land of Outcasts was banned because there wasnt enough game involved to qualify for Tournament Level.
[last i knew land of outcast was still playable for toh but worthe less points because it was unbalenced and a game finishable week 1 or sooner.]
Keep in mind I am not bashing you personally, just as a member of TOH, I dont want to spend hours playing and digging deep and busting my butt to earn a hard fought win or loss and watch people rip off 10 games a day on Duel type games and get same credit. The types of games you suggest could be fun....BattleFest was fun.. I say they will be great...BUT they shouldnt be allowed to be reported for serious tournament TOH games is all I am saying.
[10 games of a day of my map would take atleast 20 hours once i get all the buggs fixed so it will not be possible to finish in less then 2 hours. i don't know many who who would play for over 20 hours a day.]
If the map is unfinishable in less then like 2 hours how do you consider it a duel? My goal with this was simply to make a map that is possible to finish in 2 to 3 hours allowing higher lvl heroes with big armys. How many games have you played and managed to get a heroes to lvl 30. And how long did they take you to finish? I have played quite a few games on dragon pass and sub terrain treasures. and all the games i did manage to get heroes to lvl 25+ lasted over 6 hours. And i think that is way to much time, at the same time i don't like playing maps where you can finish week 1 or 2 but only have a small army with lvl 10 or less hero's.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted September 16, 2006 08:43 AM |
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I think my point boils down to this. Its not the time that bothers me. Its the quality of skill required and used during the game. It takes almost no skill or thinking at all to just purchase critters and choose skills without needing to think of resource management during game...trying to scrape up enough resources to get the drags before end of week, or fighting that crucial battle day 7 and losing some army because you needed that pile of wood to make your build before end of week. Them 6+ hour games is where the essense of the game is... trust me I know where your coming from...in wanting faster games. But the way you trying to acheive it...is simply removing the core of the game. My 8 year old son could run around for 2 hours simply buying the creatures that are already there with the money and exp that was given freely.
All I know is, if people can get TOH points in this way, there is no further point to play serious normal games. No way anyone can keep up in a points tournament when so many games can be finished in such little time. My last couple games are well over 10 hours so far and still not finished... so you could play 5-6 games in that time.
But this is all just my opinion...if thats what everyone wants, then so be it.
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