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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted September 18, 2006 03:56 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 20:28, 03 Oct 2006.
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One depth of logic... reached
IM ASKING MODS TO KILL THIS THREAD SO I CAN START A DIFFERENT SIMILAR ONE
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted September 18, 2006 08:13 PM |
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omy gosh no one reads or understands... one of the 2..
It really explains a lot of things. Many conclusions within, stacking, supporting, and leading to more conclusions.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted September 19, 2006 08:15 AM |
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All we can say is...."What is truth" What is an illusion?????
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Dreaming of a Better World
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TitaniumAlloy
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Professional
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posted September 19, 2006 12:23 PM |
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An interesting thought.
Fact:
Law of conservation of energy?
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John says to live above hell.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted September 19, 2006 05:20 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 17:23, 19 Sep 2006.
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in reply to leos thoughts he stated in the HC TALENT comment thread
The thing I wrote hides some things I believe because it would make it more complex, but in the end I mention theres a second piece involving how to distinguish what we can consider proven, proven untrue, and falsly proven.
A lot of things are true and provable in the way I'm about to describe.. I'll say the universe is a "box" and outside of the box are things we cant access. Within the box are some things we still cant explain. But the things we explain in the box hold truth within the box, but we cant be certain how factual it is since we dont even know what the box really is.
Like I said a bit complicated. I dont know if I will write a second part and if I do if I'll show people.
TA, are you suggesting I stop reaching my hands through the cage of this sytem ? (The system- the universe, our somehow given or developed ability to reason, and our inevitable manipulation of humanities realm of meaning -IE words and stuff-)
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted September 20, 2006 09:21 AM |
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Well Celfious,
I agree that the concept is complicated, but to me, it is as important to discuss and question ourselves about this as the meaning of life?
So, don't worry about what you are saying or how you are saying it; there is no right or wrong when discussing the absolute, the imaginery, or the divine. The truth always seems to communicate with people in a way that we can only wish to reproduce. 
I, for one, look forward to your 2nd part of this discussion in next week's HC's Got Talent. 
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted September 20, 2006 11:52 AM |
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I'm not suggesting, I'm just thinking.
I'm struggling to think of something you really CAN prove for sure.
I guess it all comes down to the reliability of the brain. Could everything just be imagined?
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John says to live above hell.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted September 20, 2006 02:56 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 15:01, 20 Sep 2006.
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Well, I did some thinking last night. There has to be a better way to word with what I come up with though.. Heres what I came up with, which helps determine a lot of truths (aka prove them to myself)
Colors, are colors (but to get complicated think about the difference between these misc hues and our words) We label hues with words
Shapes too.
Different types of mass and the manipulatin of it. IE such and such turns into bricks, and concrete, then into buildings. Paint, glass, its basic elements, ect.
That takes care of a lot of what is in the earth. Shape, color, buildings, and paint.
There is still the question when you think closely (as I choose to, to find what is real) "How do we know its real" (or something similar to that question)
The awnser to the question is lets take matrix for example. What is in the matrix, is "matrix real". Wether or not whats in the matrix is pure true, or not is the question we probably cant know about our universe yet, if ever.
Whats in this universe is universaly real, or universal truth. Is that as far as it goes? If so then universal truth is as far as the truth goes.
I know there is a better way to describe this lol (I guess if 2nd part of this is next weeks entry, my main task will be to word everything right)
I still have a lot of work to do thinking about what facts are actualy available to me. shapes colors and mass and the manipulation of mass.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 20, 2006 04:45 PM |
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I'm not even sure that shapes, colors etc. are truth.
Different creatures see the world in different ways: some see in black and white, some "see" with sonic waves.
Who's to say that the shapes and colors we see are not our way to see it it?
Basic elements of things? Do you meen atoms and such? It's only a theory, a very popular in our days but not necessary true...
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted September 20, 2006 04:52 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 17:07, 20 Sep 2006.
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atoms I would refer to as complex. The basic, I mean the obvious to the eye things. Wood is wood, sand is sand... ect. The basic elements.
but I didnt think of the color thing in that way you mention.
I guess then, that the colors are named after shades and hues which the human eye see's. We cant prove if what we see is true but we can name what we see atleast. "The way I see that 'color' is red" and human said let it be red.
Shew
PS. If I get a chance to wihtin the week, I will make post 1 more understandable, and perhaps updated in a way not to include to much more information, which, as I have just witnessed, the knowledge I precieve to be undoubtedly true can still be untrue. Then I have doubt in nearly everything which is 99% undoubtedly true. lol argggg
edit #3
BTW I am on the edge of a new area of whats ture and not.
Here is the basic breakthrough into more things
Some is real some is not. -true
Some is true, some is not. -true
Everything we believe to know, has in a way seemed proven to us -true
Somethings which seem to be proven (colors?) are still eligible for disproof in ways for example "hm I didnt consider that -oops-"
Now I feel an urge to create a symbol meaning a combination of probably, as far as I can tell, still potentialy eligible for disproof, maybe maybe not but probably according to what I see.
And a symbol meaning a combination of, by appearence, within the universe, univeral truth (see above. relate universal truth to matrix truth)
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted September 22, 2006 04:41 PM |
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But colours basically come down to the reflectiveness and the ability to absorb light of a surface, and the different frequencies of light generating these illusions of 'colours' in our brain. That's why I think it's all to do with the human brain.
Something I always like to think about is what if people see colours differently to you? What if yellow looks completely different to the next person?
Fools say "well then you can compare the yellow to another yellow and it should be the same!" or something like that, but ALL yellow would look like a different colour, and red, and blue, and all the mixtures.
We don't know, we can't see through each other's eyes. It's *probably* the same, but you can't be sure.
We only percieve the world by observing it. That's the only way we can verify and provide evidence for facts, but if not even our own observation is reliable enough, then we can't really prove anything.
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John says to live above hell.
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted September 22, 2006 08:48 PM |
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Edited by Leo_Lion at 20:49, 22 Sep 2006.
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As to the issue of colours, I once knew someone (i.e. Conan) who was colour blind and saw orange as brown and red as white. When we played boardgames (i.e. Settlers of Catan), he would have to remember which white pieces were his & which white pieces (the red ones) belonged to another player...same thing for the orange & brown pieces.
I never figured it out until he told me, as I always thought that he was simply distracted and often grabbing the wrong pieces. 
I don't know if he saw any other colours the same way, but it made me think about the definition of colours. So, I looked up blue in the dictionnary and it said something like: "Blue is the colour of the sky."
And what would that be if you are colour blind and see the sky as grey all the time? 
I think the dictionnary's definition would have been more precise if it included a reference to the specific point in "photo-luminous spetrum" (or whatever you call it) that blue is found. I found no such reference and employed the famous phrase:
"Don't believe everything that you read.", especially in a dictionnary!
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted September 24, 2006 03:57 PM |
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another thing that this leads to is crime, and hence evidence, or lack thereof. with greater technology comes greater means of providing evidence of an act, hence making it true, but also greater means of fabricating that evidence, which nullifies alot of potential evidence. it's starting now and will continue for a long way into the future until we can create machines not only more reliable than human experiences, (as we make such machines to model our senses, ie cameras for sight, recording for sound) but reliable enough that any piece of evidence is enough to pronounce one act true, which would mostly be used to incriminate the person in question.
wow. that's a long sentence. i'm tired it's late I'll expand tomorrow
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John says to live above hell.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted September 27, 2006 06:56 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 18:52, 28 Sep 2006.
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I have really really improved my approach to writing this all out. I think most of you get it already but my next variation will include the second part (how to distinguish reality from false beliefes) and everything else in a more understandable language.
It's all confusing but heres a sneak peek in response to TAs comments about colors.
Think of "what is a color" in the light of the matrix. In the light of a world god does not consider real and could wash it away with his finger (will, basicly). In the light of everything is a dream or an illusion. And hey, in the light of everything we see is exactly as it appears. In that case we are still blind to more than we realize. We are a society that yea, thought the world was flat, but ASSUMED that we would fall off. Even by appearance did we see the very sky attatch to the sea from a distance. I am surprised they didnt even consider a wall at the end. (Maybe they did lol but falling was most popular).
But..... feel free to relax for 2 reasons. 1: another better article is coming out and Ill be llooking for others like it too. 2: It's safe to atleast speak and live in the world we see, because it is most practicle.
edit I wrote this in a rush. Basicly with colors, yes, a hue is a hue. But there are few ways to think of them as non existant I guess. Like, if our spirits souls and some god reality has nothing to do with color. Anyways have a nice day
and leo.. "dont believe everything you read" I totaly know first hand thanks to the brutal press tactics of getting ratings. That statement is similar to my paper/articles main statement. Something like "socitey underestimates dont believe everything you see"
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