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| Thread: Combination Artifacts |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 23, 2006 06:20 PM |
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Combination Artifacts
There is so far no Combination Artifacts in Heroes 5, but there are several related Artifacts that would make it easy to introduce them in an expansion, as in Heroes 3. I've made some examples here for combination Artifacts - in this case, I've made one combination artifact for each faction, which will be usable for everyone, but bestow some extra bonus to the wearer if he's of the related faction. Other possibilities are at hand in form of combinations more specific on the artifact bonus types (thus, combine Turban of Enlightenment, Scale Male of Enlightenment to give a bonus; combine Bag of Gold and Sack of Gold to give some bonus; combine Lion Crown, Cape of the Lion's Mane and Necklace of the Lion; re-introduce the ressource providing artifacts etc.). A couple of suggestions for new artifacts are listed in italics, and a couple of artifacts have changed properties to better match the related artifacts.
What are your thoughts, should the combination artifacts return to Heroes 5?
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radar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
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posted September 23, 2006 06:33 PM |
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Edited by radar at 18:39, 23 Sep 2006.
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great work, alcibiades. i think nival boys should read some threads from this forum  . i hope that combinated artefacts will be in hammers of fate. hmmm... for example, those artefacts connected with dwarves maybe was made for combine them in future?
in this set for inferno, that is a artefact which has "immune to word if light" ability. there is a similar ring, you now about this, i think. in-game there willn't be duplicated artefacts of course. but your idea is still great 
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 23, 2006 07:52 PM |
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Quite good...
I like combination artefacts too, but did you think about your *balancing* when you were doing this list? Just when I look at it, it seems unbalanced. For example, if I saw how many artefacts does the warlock needs (also so rare), I was expecting some great bonus! I would never want to combine those artefacts! I think they have a better effect separate! But thats just my opinion.
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted September 23, 2006 08:39 PM |
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I think ranger bonus is too high (40-60%??) and necro bonus too low (5%!!) How about 15% necro its a combo after all and 30-40 ranger its high enuf already
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 23, 2006 09:09 PM |
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Yeah, the balancing is pretty random. The exact numbers might be changed ... I don't like increasing the Necro bonus too much (there are already too many skeletons in the game!), but 10 % would be fair probably, and also the ranger bonus might be decreased from +20 % to +10 %.
And about the Inferno cape > I know the ring was there, but I seem to remember you can only wear one ring in the new game, that was why I made it a cape. However, the exact choices of artifacts could also just be modified if there are better alternatives.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 23, 2006 09:15 PM |
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Here is my suggestion how you should do the balancing: firs count together all the bonuses from separate artefacts and then try to make a bonus for the combination artefact. Know what I mean, do you?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 23, 2006 11:26 PM |
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Well, the artifacts should not be equally powerfull. For instance, the Power Of The Dragon Father is made out of 8 separate artifacts, the Armor Of The Dwarven Kings consists of 5 Major Artifacts, the Crown Of Ultimate Wizardry consists of 4 Relics - whereas the Shield Of Nature's Balance consists only of minor artifacts. Therefore, it's erfectly ok that the bonuses are different - but of course the class bonus should match the difficulty of acquiring the artifacts.
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted September 24, 2006 05:07 AM |
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I think more artifacts should be created to make this possible. Its not a good idea to have some minor artifacts since everyone will be using it eventually, while other artifacts will be hard to get (like the Sar-Issus set).
By the way, should the Ultimate Wizardry set increase the knowledge instead of spell power? The arteficer skill gives bonus according to knowledge afterall.
As a reply to the other thread, I'm aware of mods that reduces the requirement for the ultimate skill, but not everyone uses mods. Besides, even with mods, your character developement path is still rather limited. With the combination artifacts, you can still get the ultimate skill, yet it does not restrict the character developement.
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted September 24, 2006 06:38 AM |
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I like how you included the Runemage in it. Excellent job overall. I really hope Nival implements this idea. You know what... you should suggest it to them. They be fools not to accept it.
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 24, 2006 06:40 AM |
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Alot of RPG has the Set item too. Great idea Alc.
One thing of conern is how to find those item? In a Story/campign mode, it would be find, and mostlikly up to the map maker to determin their placement. But what about a quick game, or a multiplayer game?
A map maker could easily make un blance map, if he/she want to...
But if left to random placement as random treasures, if the set has more than 3 or 4 piece, it become very hard to collect all of them, which will most likely reduce the set's effect, as the chance to complete the set become pretty low.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 24, 2006 09:42 AM |
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All that is ok, but dont you realise that the combination artefacts have a weaker effect than the separate ones together???
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 24, 2006 10:44 AM |
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The combination doesn't negate the effects of the artifacts, it's adding a bonus to the effects of those artifacts.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 24, 2006 12:18 PM |
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Quote:
I think more artifacts should be created to make this possible. Its not a good idea to have some minor artifacts since everyone will be using it eventually, while other artifacts will be hard to get (like the Sar-Issus set).
One could argue several ways here. One on hand, you could argue that all the "faction" combination artifacts should be equally difficult to get, and should consist of, say, 4 relics. I might actually exploit that thought - after all, we have the 4 relics from the Necromancer campaign, and there are the 4 Sar Issus relics - and then make the other combination artifacts be independant of this, and consist of various amounts of lesser artifacts. That might be the best way to ensure balance. Or on the other hand, you can argue that it doesn't matter that some of them are easier to make than others - as long as you just make the bonus less powerfull accordingly.
Quote:
By the way, should the Ultimate Wizardry set increase the knowledge instead of spell power? The arteficer skill gives bonus according to knowledge afterall.
Of course, that's a blunder from my part.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 24, 2006 12:24 PM |
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Quote:
The combination doesn't negate the effects of the artifacts, it's adding a bonus to the effects of those artifacts.
Is this true? I didnt know...
And by the way, you should try to iffer the bonuses a bit, i.e. wizards and warlock combination artefacts have almost the same effect.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 24, 2006 03:52 PM |
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An alternative scheem here. Each faction has their related combination artifact build from 4 Relics. That at least should ensure fair ballancing between the factions. Also, a few other combination ideas are offered. And Sindbad > As for your question, the artifacts retain their original properties. The combination bonus is additional to their original bonus. As for the Warlord and Wizard being similar ... Yes, they overlap, but is that really a problem?
Pictures moved - see updated list in post on next page of topic.
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WilX
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 25, 2006 01:49 AM |
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Thats all well in dandy, I just have a question. When you equip this combination artifact would it still apear as if you have them all equiped or would all of them just become one artifact? Cause if they don't become one it would be impossible to make the resources and gold ones.
I also thought it might be better if even if you don't have all the peices you can combine related artifacts, and get "imperfect" versions. Maybe add an accumulating bonus of some sort for each part that is combined together. Since gathering all of a set would be very hard and rare, only slightly easier if you're a dungeon or a Ancademy.
Lastly, there should be a spell scroll, or spell book set. I liked the elemental Tomb and Orb artifacts from Heroes 3. And, I'd really like to carry multiple scrolls in H5.
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted September 25, 2006 02:42 AM |
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I think you have to reconsider the "robe of lion courage" set, since this completely negates the necromancer's ultimate skill. Not that people use it anyway but i feel that this should be noted.
Actually I will like to see an additional change as well. If you observe, there is a "class-specific" artifact available only for the necromancers. Isn't this unfair for the other factions? Should there be artifacts present that solely improves the racial abilities for every faction? This can be included in the set, to ensure that the set will be racial specific (since this is already so for necromancy).
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 25, 2006 09:31 AM |
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Good questions and comments there. Let me try to answer them one at a time.
WillX > The artifacts become one, but still occupy their normal slots. As for the Gold and Resource artifacts, you will see that I have listed them in a "Miscelaneous" slot. That's because I think they ought to re-introduce the old extra-slots for artifacts that don't fit in anywhere particularly - orbs, scrolls, trinkets, etc. Before that's done, you will not be able to combine these artifacts. Also, you will notice that for instance the Necromancer artifact contains two robes that is currently worn on the shoulders, which would mean that one of them has to be changed.
Cantaresc > I can see your concern with the Lion robe ... It might be too powerfull. One could put a condition that the +1 limit does not apply to the Howl of Terror ability. That would take the edge off it, and after all, the inherent +5 bonus will still be a nice help in case someone should have that ability.
As for the idea of a race specific artifact in each set, I can see pros and cons. First of all, the Wizard set and the Runemage set is built entirely of items currently in the game, and could therefore not include such abilities. Some items might very easily be changed - the Bow in the Ranger set needs to be upgraded from a Major artifact (as is the current Unicorn Horn bow) to a Relic, and a racial bonus could apply nicely there. The Inferno artifact already has a sword with the ability to increase Hellfire chance - so that's fairly specific, even though I had intended this bonus to apply to anyone who equipped the artifact (they'd only have 10 % chance, then). The Dungeon set includes a Staff of Irresistibility, which adds to your Irresistible Spells skill (whether or not you have the skill), but still fairly race specific.
I think it's a good idea to try to make them fairly race specific, but I don't think that has to be a condition - for instance, I'm not sure I think the Haven bonus should be included. Comments welcome. 
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted September 26, 2006 11:16 AM |
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Are some of the artifacts above from the previous versions of HOMM? They look familiar, but I don't think I saw them in HOMM5.
Anyway, if you make a set of artifacts "fairly specific" to a certain race, it should be done for the other racial abilities as well. This is just to be fair for all the different factions. This is why I started suggesting that we should have racial artifacts; there is one artifact dedicated to necromancy.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 26, 2006 02:58 PM |
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Thats right. Its unfair for other races to have only artefacts that increase necromancy. An example: artifacts that increase necromancy are useless for everyone except necromancers! There should be also some artifacts that nobody can use just one race. But on the other side, if there are that much artifacts usable for only one race, then there is a very small chance that you find an artifact that fits to you!!!
And tomes are missing! For example Tome of light - when equipped, hero has all light spells available, but can cast them on basic lvl only! Relics of course.
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