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| Thread: A solution to the Training problem? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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hellwitch
Known Hero
Skeleton Ruler
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posted November 01, 2006 09:28 AM |
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Quote:
The Point system could work, except for the problem with the level Cap (the XP boundary around level 30 means that you're very unlikely to get past this level). This means, that in a long game, at some point you've used your quota, and then the Skill is useless, which wont do.
Well the point system could be binded with the amount of exp gained not with lvl.Like it can be 1pt for each 1000exp or each 500exp. For long game useability : hero could get bonus at 1 day each week - 10pt or something.
That gives me another idea - to bind the point with the time completely: 2pt every day: that means 10 archers a week at max .The points per day could increase with the skill upgrade(3pt/day for advanced -15 archers max; 4pt for expert - 20 max).
There is maybe 20 or more ways to make training more balanced and we need at least one which is good enough.
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hellwitch
Known Hero
Skeleton Ruler
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posted November 01, 2006 09:31 AM |
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alcibiades
Your first suggestion has someting familiar with my last suggestion: to use hero lvl/skills and time as parameters.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 01, 2006 08:32 PM |
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Quote:
That gives me another idea - to bind the point with the time completely: 2pt every day: that means 10 archers a week at max.The points per day could increase with the skill upgrade(3pt/day for advanced -15 archers max; 4pt for expert - 20 max).
This idea is certainly much better than the XP / Level dependancy. A bit simple, perhaps, but would work. However, the Point system alone probably wont do it, because a) either you won't get enough points to ever being able to Train high level units to a degree where it makes a difference for the game, or b) you will get enough points to train all your Archers, and the system would not have accomplished what it was made for.
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PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted November 04, 2006 04:00 PM |
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How about leaving training the way it is and removing precise shot from the marksmen?
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 04, 2006 04:09 PM |
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no.
The precise shot is just an add-on. The main problem lies in imbalanced damage/week and hp/week of a level2 unit - much much more than black dragons (the supposed hardest hitters of this game) produce, even when not counting dougal's att and def bonuses.
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TemjinGold
Known Hero
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posted November 05, 2006 05:36 PM |
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How about something like, you need 10/8/6/4 peasants (numbers can be adjusted) to train 1 archer (no rounding so it just won't train if you don't have enough). I mean, after all, these are farmers. You can't expect that, in a group of 500 farmers, EVERY ONE of them can become skilled archers.
I was always wondering how unrealistic it is when 1000 peasants can ALL be paladins in the span of a DAY as long as you had money. Those must be some trainers they get (though that explains the exorbitant fees they charge!)
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 05, 2006 06:03 PM |
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in logic, of course they can ;p You can dress them in plates and give them horses. No matter that they will get killed by their own horse :X
To keep it realistic, they should be paladins but with 2/2 A/D and crippled speed or so, since they can't be as good as profesionals after 1 day of training.. can they? 
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vhilhu
Famous Hero
We are NOT schysophren
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posted November 05, 2006 06:36 PM |
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Quote:
To keep it realistic, they should be paladins but with 2/2 A/D and crippled speed or so, since they can't be as good as profesionals after 1 day of training.. can they?
implementing that would mean more trouble with mixing stacks.
____________
Two little Gnoll boys sitting in the sun;
One got frizzled up and then there was one.
One little Gnoll boy left all alone;
He went and hung himself and then there were none.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 05, 2006 07:32 PM |
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Quote:
in logic, of course they can ;p You can dress them in plates and give them horses. No matter that they will get killed by their own horse :X
I would like to actually see that chubby Peasant on top of a Paladins horse. If you move him more than 2 squares, the peasant falls to the groung on his ass and the wise horse escapes the battlefield. 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 05, 2006 08:15 PM |
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Quote:
implementing that would mean more trouble with mixing stacks.
y, it was a joke. I still think disabling peasant to archer possibility is the best.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 05, 2006 08:35 PM |
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I think disabling the Peasant function would be very unfair to Haven. Apart from the Marksman, Haven have very poor low level creatures, and they are obviously intended to use training to compensate for this. Removing that option will leave Haven with a bunch of Conscripts that are utterly useless. That's why I think Training of Peasants is fine - but only to a limit.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 05, 2006 09:22 PM |
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Who said every of their creature has to be the best for their level?
Peasants: Suck
Marksmen: best (assuming dougal leads them) of level 2
Squires: they are utility units and in that function they are extremely useful
Griffs: Strongest level 4
Inquisitors: Another utility unit
Paladins: Best of level 6
Archs: Quite good, but upgraded level 7s are rare anyway
The army is composed of the best offensive creatures available and great utility units, no need to boost it more by giving them a stack that is able to OHKO everything.
While it wouldn't be possible to train archers, the cost of training footmen, priests and cavaliers should get lowered quite a bit to balance things out. It would give haven a useful racial without overpowered idiocy of marksmen+dougal combo.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 05, 2006 11:21 PM |
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Quote:
Who said every of their creature has to be the best for their level?
Peasants: Suck
Marksmen: best (assuming dougal leads them) of level 2
Squires: they are utility units and in that function they are extremely useful
Griffs: Strongest level 4
Inquisitors: Another utility unit
Paladins: Best of level 6
Archs: Quite good, but upgraded level 7s are rare anyway
The army is composed of the best offensive creatures available and great utility units, no need to boost it more by giving them a stack that is able to OHKO everything.
While it wouldn't be possible to train archers, the cost of training footmen, priests and cavaliers should get lowered quite a bit to balance things out. It would give haven a useful racial without overpowered idiocy of marksmen+dougal combo.
Well, you can't judge a creature's strength by the Hero it leads them. If Marksmen are that powerfull when Dougal leads them, there's something wrong with Dougal rather than the Marksmen.
And you are absolutely right that Haven has excellent level 4 and 6 units - probably the best available, as you say - but I'd still to have a Training system that was ballanced over all the levels, rather than just cutting away what is arguably the most usefull branch of the skill in order to ballance it.
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nocaplato
Adventuring Hero
Lover of Ancient Philosophy
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posted November 06, 2006 01:00 AM |
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Maybe I missed this, but what if you had to train 2 peasants to get 1 marksman, then 2 marksmen to get 1 squire and so forth... 32 peasants could become 16 marksman, could become 8 squires, could become 4 griffin, could become 2 inquisitors could become 1 cavalier. Leave all training costs alone, but reduce effectiveness.
Logically, some of the conscripts showed promise and trained up. The rest were drummed out of basic training, and went, happily, back home to the farm. Only the rare few would ever be tough and dedicated enough to become a cavalier... a real rags to riches story.
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Sega
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 06, 2006 06:04 AM |
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hmmm i like noclapato idea, that is, someone earlier mentioned something like that. sounds fair nuff but then again i dont think it cripples training ability. maybe some % of loss of units when training them wouldnt be a bad solution......
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hellwitch
Known Hero
Skeleton Ruler
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posted November 06, 2006 09:37 AM |
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loosing troops when training or "time delay scheme" could work to balance the heaven racial ability.
A "time delay scheme":
To train archers will need 1 week of practice in the training facility (the delay). And the training facility allow only 15(20) units to be trained in one time. Thats how the haven will need to start training ASAP to get more trained archers. And the training will be limited from realisic things like money, room for training and time for training.In this scheme the higher lvl will not suffer from max limit but training a big quantity army like archers will be limited.
The days and the max occupation room needed for Training will make the balance.
The best of this purpose is that it makes the game more real and we reach the goal: to balance heaven.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 06, 2006 10:49 AM |
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Quote:
32 peasants could become 16 marksman, could become 8 squires, could become 4 griffin, could become 2 inquisitors could become 1 cavalier.
I suppose changin squires into griffins is.. well.. twisted 
But changing griffins into priests is scary
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted November 06, 2006 02:02 PM |
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I think that the "Limints of Training" it great.
It should be in the game.
Great work!
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hellwitch
Known Hero
Skeleton Ruler
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posted November 09, 2006 12:55 PM |
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Did somebody know if there is solution for the training problem in the expansion pack HoF i.e. v1.4 that will come soon????
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 09, 2006 12:56 PM |
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I haven't heard anything yet.
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