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| Thread: taking creeping to the next level | |
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted December 19, 2006 11:16 PM |
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taking creeping to the next level
This topic is meant to serve as an advanced creeping guide, that contains the best creeping strategies for every town(with or without supercreepers aka Deleb, Kaspar etc.) ! Also , I would like us to make a analisys of the efficiency of every creeping strategy, based on time the spent to creep, the sacrifices you make(troops and less usefull skills final battle wise), and the benefits you get by doing that creeping ( + stats , + economy etc. )!
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 20, 2006 01:00 AM |
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Nice idea.
A few thoughts about the best creeper in the game aka deleb:
1. After you start, get a mage guild first and hire additional hero. Leave all the familiars in the town and take all the demons with you.
2. Look for a +1000exp stone, there are usually nearby - of none is present, take the nearest chest and take experience. The goal is to get ballista and tent skills as soon as possible. Don't pick additional skills - if neither ballista nor tent is offered, pick gating speciality. On next level, you WILL receive two warmachines specials because there are no possibilites left. On third, you will receive the remaining two, since, again, there are the only possible specialities, so there is no possibility that you won't have the ballista and tent skill at level 4. To get level 4, best to kill some weak neutrals, visit some stones and waste 1-2 exp chests. You can do well without tent and the tent skill against non-shooting, slow creatures of any kind, though.
3. Meanwhile in the town get blacksmith. Go back to the town, get a tent and some extra demons.
4. Rape the creeps in any order. The ballista will deal amazing damage. Keep the demons in upper-right or upper-left corner ; don't move them except for gating in their first turn. Tent heals 100 HP - total of 300 HP after the end of the combat, which is more than enough to cover any loses a band of marksmen/masterhunters/other shooters can inflict. Many melee creatures will choose attacking the warmachines instead of demons, which makes killing stronger ones perfectly possible, since machines are pretty much indestructable with expert warmachines.
5. Ofc the casualties will appear, so keep getting new demons through secondary heroes+dwelling.
6. After several levels, go for mercury and sulfur mines. Watch out for imperial griffins - their initative makes it possible to battle dive your demon stack away before their move, so better to split the demons into several stacks to ensure you won't lose your hero. Killing archmages and druid elders is, again, perfectly possible - ofc it's tricky to do it without any casualties at all, but demons are rubbish and there is no need to care for them and their numbers.
Slow/average fast large creatures are easy because you can stop them attacking your demon stack like that:
X__
__G
X- real demon stack in the corner of the battlefield
G- gated stack
this will prevent any casualties, since they will go after the warmachines rather than small gated stack.
Easy kills:
hydras, unicorns(they target warmachines mainly while ballsta and hero rapes them), master hunters (too weak to survive the ballista), djinns(low HP), shadow matriarchs (prefer casting than attacking, get several stacks so they will cast more), liches(same as above+low hp), nightmares (same as unicorns) and many many more.
Ah, treants are easy kills too due to high damage dealt to them via hero melee attack.
More to come.
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted December 20, 2006 02:04 AM |
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Quote:
1. After you start, get a mage guild first and hire additional hero. Leave all the familiars in the town and take all the demons with you.
I assume you mean tavern, not a mage guild if you are hiring an additional hero from it.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted December 20, 2006 02:12 AM |
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I'll start my impresions with Haven, of course 
Haven creeping gives you quite a lot of options, whichever hero you choose ! Vitorio, is great, and after you get the first aid tent, and ~50-100 marksmen you can kill almost anything on the map without losses (2 paesants at most / battle ) ! Still there are some hated enemies like the cerberus and war dancers, which can penetrate your paesant guards very easy and reach for the marksmen and make some trouble, but with the help of the tent, you can still lose nothing ! The shooters are somehow annoying, and you have to pay attention to them ! You can't expect to take out lots of Titans with 100 marksmen  , but the Vitorio-marksmen combo , can kick lvl 1-3 shooters quite easily, and even lvl 4 isn't an obstacle you can't surpass(depends on numbers) !
This was the easy aproach, which cuts through monsters like bread, and gives similar results to Deleb.
The other Haven heroes, can have a similar path if they get warmachines and tent fast. Without that any other hero has to choose the path of the sacrifice, but it is crucial keeping it low ! In the beggining the marksmen, paesant formation, can take out any walker with very 1-2 paesants sacrificed at most. The hated enemies ( cerberus and War Dancer ) might bring some marksmen losses, so you better avoid them until you have enough marksmen(50+)! Also you must avoid the shooters as much as possible , choosing a smart route is very important here. After the first week you have to upgrade the griffins and bring those 10 imperials to battle. This will be a great add-on to your army, and you will be able to take out lvl 1-3 shooters easily! The tough shooters will still be a problem, but that's ok, cause there is not many of them ! If you also get the Squires, the Squire, Marksmen, Imperial combo can take out almost anything, but they are quite expensive (wood & ore wise), and you could get better things in the 2nd week instead of this upgrade. The other route you can choose is going for fast paladins, and using the healing each other trick, to take out evil shooters . This is more boring though, cause your hero will kill those shooters pretty slow  . If you can get your hands on the archangels your troubles are over, and the map becomes your friend , but this won't happen very early on most maps, so you'll pretty much have to rely on the tricks mentioned above.
Creeping without warmachines is harder, but it gives you the great benefit of not wasting 4-5 skill points on a skill that doesn't give you that much in the final battle
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 20, 2006 02:20 AM |
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Quote:
I assume you mean tavern, not a mage guild if you are hiring an additional hero from it.
I assume that the tavern is already built, so you can get mage guild AND another hero at once 
Towerlord, warmachines may not give much to knights at final battles, but they power up deleb quite a lot.. inferno lacks shooters, and the endgame ballista with the skills still acts like a powerful stack of shooters.. As for the tent, this is the only reliable cleansing for a demonlord.. 3 charges but it can save your sorry butt if your army gets frenzied (ouch ;x). With familiar's manadrain 3 charges should be enough to counter the most problematic spells before enemy hero runs out of mana.
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted December 20, 2006 02:52 AM |
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I primarily play Haven. Just wanted to add that getting the wood and ore mines on the first and second day is crucial. I but the second hero on the the first day, take his troops and will sacrifice almost my entire army if necessary for these two mines, though usually the sacrifices aren't bad. There are usually a few low level creatures that I can kill in the first few days, I explore the map as much as possible, then get back to my castle for week 2 troops to continue creeping.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 20, 2006 03:39 AM |
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well, haven doesn't need as much resources as other factions, so there is no need to rush. Gold usually comes unguarded or guarded by wimpy monsters. Goldmines are rare. :X After capturing orepit and sawmill you can pretty much build everything, and some crystal for paladins and eventually gems for angels can be found as you stroll through the land.. A big benefit of haven, if you ask me. Ofc if you desire higher light magic it's not that wonderful, but still way better than other factions.
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted December 20, 2006 05:47 AM |
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I hate warmachines, especially considering all the other skills that the Haven can use and actually inpact the end game. This tends to slow my creeping, which sucks for experience but doesn't slow town development due to the limited rare resource requirements.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted December 20, 2006 07:30 PM |
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Quote:
I hate warmachines, especially considering all the other skills that the Haven can use and actually inpact the end game. This tends to slow my creeping, which sucks for experience but doesn't slow town development due to the limited rare resource requirements.
I have the same feeling about war machines @ haven , but sometimes they are a bad thing that you can't live without  !
The only good thing about war machines in the final battle is the healing effect of the tent, too few for a whole skill if you ask me
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 20, 2006 08:31 PM |
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Hey what about necro creeping and should necromancer take War Machine skills or just cool Necromancy skills?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 20, 2006 08:57 PM |
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For Kaspar obviously.. as for other necros there is no such need, the vampires are quite good tanks and there is the animate dead spell to help them around the end of the combat to regain their numbers. Skeletons should do the killing.
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted December 20, 2006 11:36 PM |
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Nercos do just fine boosting Necromancy and using animate dead. Get the skill that let's you necro into skeleton archers as soon as possible.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted December 21, 2006 01:11 AM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 01:15, 21 Dec 2006.
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WoW, great topic!
Quote:
Nercos do just fine boosting Necromancy and using animate dead. Get the skill that let's you necro into skeleton archers as soon as possible.
Ok
Important skills and abilities For Necro:
Attack -> Archery -> Battle Frenzy -> Cold Steel
Attack - the most of the necro units rely on the mele demage, like the Vampires and the Ghosts.
Archery - For the Skels
Battle Frenzy - 2K Skels +1 demage (Battle Frenzy) = +2K demage for all skels!
Defense -> Vitality -> Chilling Bones
Defense - The necro units are week in defense, so Defense Skill
Vitality -> 2K Slels + 2 HP (Vitality) = + 4K HP for all Skels!
Summoning Magics -> Master of Life -> Haunted Mines
Master of Life - for the Raise Dead spell
Haunted Mines - use the ghost for the army not for the mines, in the mines they are not effective, they can not protect the mines against hero, so use the ghost for the army
Banish - is also good for the necros, and good anti-inferno ability.
Dark Magic -> Master of Curses -> Mark of the Necromanser
Mark of the Necromanser - The necromanser need more mana "Mark of the Necromanser" is the best idea here, if the hero haven't enough mana.
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 21, 2006 02:22 AM |
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Edited by Homer171 at 04:38, 21 Dec 2006.
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Quote:
For Kaspar obviously.. as for other necros there is no such need, the vampires are quite good tanks and there is the animate dead spell to help them around the end of the combat to regain their numbers. Skeletons should do the killing.
Well i just played whit Kaspar and had little mixed feelings. Speciality is great but i had problem having Necromancy skill! It's really horrible if you get several level ups and never get change to improve your mancy.
I just tough what skills i should take first. First i took Warmachines then i get Plague Tent and after that i took Skeleton Archers but after that i didn't get Necromancy right away and that was quite bad think imo.
Those skill are just right Vokial put if map is really huge i could go whit Logistics but those are all really usefull skills to have but Summon or Defense i would perhaps take out sometimes but that is also a bit harsh disesion to make.
EDIT: Ho Ho Ho. I little unrestimated the Kaspar's creeping first when i didn't get Necromancy right away but when i didn't get other skills than Warmachine skills i forced the hero to have necromancy skill soon enough.
I could easily attack those neutral creatures and fear no casulties and in sixth week i bought all creatures from the town and captured all enemy towns (7). I played on hard level againts cpu and that does not tell mutch but computer where just too passive.
After the second town capture i had so mutch of Skeleton Archers that enemies didn't have change againts my army. Kaspars Tent/Plague helped alot and keeped casulties mimimum. I finished the map just before second month where over. (Expert Logistic helped also to make my fast way to the victory)
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Dungeonian
Adventuring Hero
Supreme matriarch
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posted December 21, 2006 12:06 PM |
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Well , just a little guide for Eruina on Heroic .
She starts with basic Destruction and basic Offence , which allow us take tactics ( the key skills to defeat shooters and casters and also very useful later vs. hostile heroes ) very early , often already on 1st up . Lighning spell gives a possibilty don't wasting resourses on magic guild during first two weeks . After taking tactics lets stop rise offence , there is a time to take luck , sorcery and enlightment . In Enligtment only nesessery perk is Intelligence , which gives us additional 50% mana points . In luck we have one of the best perks in the whole game - warlocks luck , the ability allowing luck affecting our destructive spells , the pre-requirement for it is soldiers luck . In sorcery all perks are very useful - arcane training reduse mana cost for all spells on 20% , mana regeneration allows to restore 2 mana for 1 knowledge per day , erratic mana randomly reduces mana cost on 1-50% . In racial skill the best is Arcan wave , which gives Emprowed spells 150% damage for double cost .
Town development :
1st week - town hall ( tavern if it isn't built )
maidens
upgrade to furies
scouts
marketplace
blacksmith
riders
2nd week - city hall
hall of intrigues
artefact merchant
minotaurs
hydras
capitol
shadow witches
3rd week - mage guild 1
mage guild 2
mage guild 3 , 10th level for Eruina must be taken now , she visits town and learn summon creatures spell .
upgrade to grim raiders
buy raiders and witches , usualy haven't enough money for other .
citadel
castle
Creaping :
as soon as tactics is taken and maidens upgraded to furies all 1 lvl , any golems , squires , zombies , demons , lots of minotaurs , ghosts , war dancers , blood maidens , marksmen , bear riders , hell hounds . Don't touch master hunters , high levels and hordes of fast lvl 2 . Crystal and Sulfur mines are very important , flag its as soon as possible even with some loses . Large creatures are defeated earily using this tactics - stand blood furies in the corner , split scouts on 1+1+1+1+1+1 ( gives the last to second hero ) and stand them in chess order , furies will hit and run back to the corner , as soon as protecting scout would perish change it for another one . Against shooter stand furies in 3rd tier on 4th and 8th square , spliting them to 1+all others , 1 hits without run by purshase Ctrl during strike . On second week nothing serious changing , just we have more furies and stronger lightning , hence defeat the same guardians and open map as more as possible , planning our strategy for later . The big battles begin after recruiting witches and grim raiders . Witches shood be splited in all free slots , 5 witches could zero-fied the defence even from as famous tank as treant or rakshasa raja . With 35-40 furies , 12 grim raiders , 1+1+1+1 shadow witches and emprowed lightnings Eruina haven't a problem with any walker weaker than lots of paladins , except lvl 7 with 8-9 speed and any shooter weaker than lots of archliches . The only problem is casters , such as druid elders or achemagi . Creap them without loses is impossible even on 3rd week , so I prefer to use some worthless troops like minotaur , or(better) joined creatures from other factions splited on 7 stacks and kill those casters with Eruina's destructive spells .
I hope this will help you to be more familiar with my favourite faction , good luck and best regards!
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 21, 2006 07:16 PM |
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Nice work whit Eruina Dungeonian but i don't think the building order is the best possible way. Atleast i focuse more on resource/creature dwellings before Marketplace/Blacksmith.
I allways look what is possible to arcihive in first week and try to aim on those Hydras when they are extremely powerfull and if you get hands on them before population you get nice amount of them and take out dwelling creatures easily down. I need to test is it possible to build Hydras in first week at Heroic level.
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted December 21, 2006 08:26 PM |
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really nice creeping tips for dungeon, dungeonian .
I use Chaos Hydras, like Homer, because they are really incredible tanks and they ressurect themserlves... very usefull ability when fighting ranged or casters ... after you reduced their numbers enough with spells you can just wait a while for your hydras to ressurect !
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 22, 2006 05:43 AM |
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Quote:
really nice creeping tips for dungeon, dungeonian .
I use Chaos Hydras, like Homer, because they are really incredible tanks and they ressurect themserlves... very usefull ability when fighting ranged or casters ... after you reduced their numbers enough with spells you can just wait a while for your hydras to ressurect !
Exactly and if there are enemy range creatures Hydras can left alone fighting when they don't have casulties so easily. And for slow walkers Maidens and Assasins can help to creep enemies out. Warlock heroes are also perfect early game creeper whit good spell power whit emb!
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