|
| Thread: Comparing Heroes V to Heroes III |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
|
Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
|
posted December 31, 2006 11:40 AM |
|
|
Comparing Heroes V to Heroes III
Well, most people seem to think that Heroes IV is a very bad game. While I do agree that it isn't as good as Heroes III I think some people are a little unfair when talking about Heroes IV. However, because of this, it wouldn't be any idea to compare Heroes IV to V because most people would just say that 'Heroes IV sucks and Heroes V is great'.
So let's therefore compare Heroes V with Heroes III.
Heroes V:s advantages over III:
¤ The magic system seems much more logical.
¤ The skill system is much more balanced. Now a player can even consider giving Leadership to a Necromancer.
¤ The towns are more balanced. In Heroes III, Conflux, Necropolis and Castle seemed to be recognised by most members as the strongest ones. Now, everyone seems to have different opinions (even if I have never heard anyone calling Haven weak).
¤ The hero specials which isn't perfectly balanced, is much more balanced than those of Heroes III (Crag Hack, Tazar, Ciele and Solmyr in that order )
¤ The Town levels create a real 'mid-game'
¤ The battlefield are smaller which makes neutral battles much less boring
¤ The graphics are simply fantastic
Heroes III:s advantages over V:
¤ All old characters where there, they are removed in Heroes V
¤ They where nine towns, not six (or seven with HoF)
¤ Of some reason, the Heroes III AI seems smarter than both that of IV and V
¤ The amount of bugs where much lesser
¤ The map editor wasn't that complicated
¤ They where two heroes per level (I hate giving my knight Dark magic - Fallen Knight without making him a Cleric)
¤ The campaigns where harder and the characters voices spoke 'true' English
¤ They where more maps
Conclusion: Heroes V is, despite it faults, better than all the other games together. I simply love it! Thanks Ubival for making this fantastic game and I hope that Heroes VI will be very similar to it.
Other opinions?
____________
|
|
william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
|
|
posted December 31, 2006 12:00 PM |
|
|
HOMMV imo completely changed the game, although it still has some of the key aspects in it, like turn based, the factions/towns, skills, heroes, and resources and all that, pretty much the same, but some of the other things, like one of the main: THE LOOK has been changed, and that gives an entirely new aspect to the game.
So you cannot really compare HOMMV to HOMM3 in that aspect, because they both have a different view.
With factions and all that, creatures and that, I think HOMMV might be better, I have heard it has more units, am I correct?
The main conecpt is still in HOMMV though which was in homm1, 2, 3, and 4, well atleast I think so.
The Map editor has probably been much improved in HOMMV, which is atleast a good thing, and the graphics, again that cannot really be compared because they are both eneitrely different, one being 3D and the other not being 3D, so you cannot really judge.
Some non 3D games can actually look better then 3D games, it is true by the way.
But usually as the games progress further in the series like HOMM1 to HOMM2 to HOMM3 to HOMM4 to HOMM5, they should usually get better as they keep getting newer, but for some games that is not true, like HOMM.
Many many people here still prefer HOMM3 to HOMM5, and the reverse happens, some people still prefer HOMM5 to HOMM3 maybe because it is newer and maybe more people might be playing it, seeing as though ToH is running with HOMM5 and no longer HOMM3, and The Zone is gone, well atleast I think so anyway.
HOMMV might be better to some certain individuals, and HOMM3 might be better to some other kinds of Individuals, it all depends on taste really.
But for me I think that HOMM3 would be better.
____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
|
|
emilsn
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted December 31, 2006 03:55 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Well, most people seem to think that Heroes IV is a very bad game. While I do agree that it isn't as good as Heroes III I think some people are a little unfair when talking about Heroes IV. However, because of this, it wouldn't be any idea to compare Heroes IV to V because most people would just say that 'Heroes IV sucks and Heroes V is great'.
So let's therefore compare Heroes V with Heroes III.
Heroes V:s advantages over III:
¤ The magic system seems much more logical.
¤ The skill system is much more balanced. Now a player can even consider giving Leadership to a Necromancer.
¤ The towns are more balanced. In Heroes III, Conflux, Necropolis and Castle seemed to be recognised by most members as the strongest ones. Now, everyone seems to have different opinions (even if I have never heard anyone calling Haven weak).
¤ The hero specials which isn't perfectly balanced, is much more balanced than those of Heroes III (Crag Hack, Tazar, Ciele and Solmyr in that order)
¤ The Town levels create a real 'mid-game'
¤ The battlefield are smaller which makes neutral battles much less boring
¤ The graphics are simply fantastic
Heroes III:s advantages over V:
¤ All old characters where there, they are removed in Heroes V
¤ They where nine towns, not six (or seven with HoF)
¤ Of some reason, the Heroes III AI seems smarter than both that of IV and V
¤ The amount of bugs where much lesser
¤ The map editor wasn't that complicated
¤ They where two heroes per level (I hate giving my knight Dark magic - Fallen Knight without making him a Cleric)
¤ The campaigns where harder and the characters voices spoke 'true' English
¤ They where more maps
Conclusion: Heroes V is, despite it faults, better than all the other games together. I simply love it! Thanks Ubival for making this fantastic game and I hope that Heroes VI will be very similar to it.
Other opinions?
I liked the magic system better in HoMM3 and there were way more spells in HoMM3 and i love that... In this game the system is also great but HoMM3 is best here..
I HATE!! That Necromancers can have Luck and leadership... I must say that Necros cannot have moral! They cannot have luck, they are dead that its ... I'm to old school there.. 
Hmm? the towns are well balanced in both games ? I must say, well i wasn't much for the long games, i finished fast in HoMM3 so I had no problem with unbalanced towns.. and in HoMM5 times changed, some are really weaker then others..
Again, HoMM3 was to me not unbalanced...
I do not like that Town lvl thing... I really think that it ruins the game that if i just buy enough stuff i can have Dragons(all lvl 7 creatures) within 2 weeks?! Your suppose to have those as the last thing!
Ain't the battle field bigger? Hn? and yes the looks of this game are great ... mmm
Well this is a WHOLE new storyline, so ofcourse the other heroes are gone..  (sandro? Solmyr), though markal talks of Sandro (alot)
I agree, to few towns,! I want my 8 (I can live with the 9th) back
The AI sucks in HoMM5, Its weird, Horned demons explode in their own ranks?!
The thing with bugs is just about the company who made it, so now we know that Nival have problem making complete games poor russian
Well i cheated through HoMM3 campaign just wanted the story ; and well yes it was harder, to hard.. this is just for me Well, about the voices, sometimes we need a laugh too So sad for you Findan... You got the worst voice!
And yes!! WHERE ARE ALL THE MAPS?!?! I wan't as many as there were in Homm3, but i guess that NIval though we could make the maps ourself? Because we don't seem to be getting any? And i need some maps that look like stuff, i loved to look at the map in that map in HoMM3 with the dragon orb... that i miss a lot...
Well i like Homm3 Better then HoMM5.. Though i havn't played HoMM1 my favorit list would be: HoMM3, HoMM3, HoMM2(Did i grew up with that! Yes I did, love it, hail the phoenix), HoMM4(sucked) and last HoMM1, never played it and i heared it was much like HoMM2 so maybe its very good... ? who knows...
P.S If anyone know a place where we can get tons of maps, please make a link
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted December 31, 2006 04:21 PM |
|
|
Quote:
¤ The hero specials which isn't perfectly balanced, is much more balanced than those of Heroes III (Crag Hack, Tazar, Ciele and Solmyr in that order)
While I could disagree with several of the other points you write, this particular aspect is for me so wrong that I have to protest! In Heroes 5, more than in any other game, the Hero specials have become defining for the outcome of the game! Just look at how people are raving at Deleb, Kaspar, or the Marksman guy, whatever his name is. Even after they nerfed Claus, it is bad. It has come to the stage where people are actually whenever they write a strategy guide for a faction depend the entire strategy on you choosing a specific hero and that hero's special ability!
Sure, in Heroes 3 some specials were very powerfull - specialized in Offence, Logistics, Bless and Intelligence stood out for me as some of the better, and specilized in Resurrection had the very comfortable advantage of starting out with that spell in your spellbook - but they were in much lesser degree game defining than the current specialities, as I see it.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted December 31, 2006 07:52 PM |
|
|
What is different? I would say atmosphere at first. It actually differs quite a lot between the versions - it's less epic in H5. The world seems smaller and less detailed in H5 - even though it's much more beautiful. Perhaps it's the 3d view that makes maps so "empty". In h3, most of the maps had TONS of resources/mosters/arties/other things so close to each other that it almost felt claustrophobic (and better IMO). H5 offers more "space", which I don't like.
I have to admit that I like heroes5 battle system a lot more, though.
About the magic: There is still not enough spells, and 2 spells per level of the guild sucks a little.
The balance isn't the best, but it's not the worst too in H5. Sure, there are heroes who are strong and weak, but some that offer "weaker" specialities also offer skills that are hard to get for each faction and in the same time quite important (like orson, boosting worthless creatures but starting with defence which means fast vitality for skellies). The problem is that not all heroes offer such abilities. Grawl, for instance. His ability is good, but it's so hard to creep with him. If he had attack instead of destructive, he could be the "smaller version of Deleb". But since he has sucky destructive, he ain't too good.
In h3, the balance was poor. Necropolis was impossible to beat on bigger maps, conflux was simply broken & banned at most tours. I would say it was worse than h5 in this point.
All in all, the games are pretty much similiar, BUT h3 was the first one.. so after all those years spent on h3, H5 can't really impress. Sadly. But it's still a great game and very fun to play.
|
|
Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted December 31, 2006 08:13 PM |
|
|
Heroes III was great game as itself. I have played it most of all heroes games and will allways remember it one classic game in the serie. Heroes V in another hand is a sequal to Heroes III in one way when it's mutch similiar to old Heroes III.
All in all Heroes III was exellent game (R.I.P ) i would not play the game these days before Heroes V! I still can play old heroes on whit friends etc but honestly Heroes V is just mutch better game. Only what i could miss is the simplicity whit graphics only 2D and turns could play maybe little faster. But all that is taken care in HV when the atmosphere is exellent and the creatures, skills, heroes and all are very enjoyable and it's not broken by balance.
Play the game firts then say witch would you prefer. For me i take the Heroes V.
|
|
Finarfinn
Hired Hero
son of Finve
|
|
posted January 03, 2007 11:38 AM |
|
|
Quote:
What is different? I would say atmosphere at first. It actually differs quite a lot between the versions - it's less epic in H5. The world seems smaller and less detailed in H5 - even though it's much more beautiful. Perhaps it's the 3d view that makes maps so "empty". In h3, most of the maps had TONS of resources/mosters/arties/other things so close to each other that it almost felt claustrophobic (and better IMO). H5 offers more "space", which I don't like.
I Agree!
But I think that world of H5 is not more beautiful than H4. And it is because this 3D view. 2D(in combination with 3D) is much more suitable to HOMM games, and H5 is the proof.
H5 makers created game with graphic similar to Warcraft3, Disciples2`s atmosphere, and many features(spells, creatures etc.)transfered from previous HOMM games , but with new names and new look
And the result is a mixture with a little original features. H5 is not true HOMM, just like Dark Messiah is not Might and Magic RPG.
And that is the reason because of many of HOMM fans dont play this game, although H5 earns new supporters.
|
|
siinn
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted January 03, 2007 01:38 PM |
|
|
I played heroes 1,2,3 and now I'm playing with the fantastic 5th!
Heroes 3 WAS a great game, one of the greatest "turn based" game ever created. I remember well all the night spent on shadow of death with my friends...
Heroes 5 is a bit less mythic than its famous father but I think it's my favorite so far!!
The main reason I do prefer the 5th is the "realistic" news factions. I do love the fact that Ubi wanted to create factions with a specific logic: humans, demons, elves, dark elves, undead, wizards, dwarves... because I always felt strange with Heroes 3 dwarves living with elves or the old forteress melting pot...
go Heroes 5!!!
|
|
finarfinn
Hired Hero
son of Finve
|
|
posted January 03, 2007 02:48 PM |
|
|
Quote:
...The main reason I do prefer the 5th is the "realistic" news factions. I do love the fact that Ubi wanted to create factions with a specific logic: humans, demons, elves, dark elves, undead, wizards, dwarves...
Just like Disciples
This is not the world of Might and Magic, my friend.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted January 03, 2007 03:40 PM |
|
Edited by TheDeath at 16:14, 03 Jan 2007.
|
Quote:
Perhaps it's the 3d view that makes maps so "empty". In h3, most of the maps had TONS of resources/mosters/arties/other things so close to each other that it almost felt claustrophobic (and better IMO). H5 offers more "space", which I don't like.
Of course 'cause you're a powercreeping maniac (no offense)... I don't see neutrals as being cool, especially when someone says he is against human -- neutrals are AI, believe it or not.
I usually hate neutrals, especially later when I have tier 7s, I go through them like cheese, and is obviously boring -- too many creeps that is!
Quote:
Grawl, for instance. His ability is good, but it's so hard to creep with him. If he had attack instead of destructive, he could be the "smaller version of Deleb". But since he has sucky destructive, he ain't too good.
Heroes V is not meant to be a game where you creep -- this is still you vs neutral AI stuff.. No hero was meant for creeping. As you love Deleb, of course she is the only hero worthy of creeping, because she is the only one that suits your needs (though I don't think she was designed for that). I like to play Grawl, Nebiros, all of them.. of course it also depends on the map played (if it was with many stupid neutrals or not).. I don't like rich maps without lots of dwellings or towns. And please stop voting as "something sucks" just because you can't creep with it.
aaah, I like strategy, but to a point where you arrive at a player-vs-player tactic, not some cheap creeping stuff like "hey I creeped more than you 'cause the neutral AI was stupid and attacked my treants, was only an example, so I simply win the game, right?". If you played Starcraft/Warcraft or other strategy games (Spellforce, Warlords battlecry...) you know what I mean. (no problems at creeping that seem to ruin this game, like cheap 1 sprite vs 10000 zombie tactic. Starcraft for example has no creeps at all, does it make it a very unstrategical game?)
Have a nice day
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
|
|
posted January 03, 2007 04:17 PM |
|
Edited by VokialBG at 16:19, 03 Jan 2007.
|
|
I'm Heroes player more than 10 years (dont count Kings Bounty) and for me the best games in the series are Heroes 3 and Heroes 2, Heroes 5 is better than Heroes 4 (not totally) but it isn't better, than H3... this is my opinion, every one have an opinion...
|
|
Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
|
|
posted January 03, 2007 05:10 PM |
|
|
i think that their about the same, for the time of their creatation anyway
____________
Visit my Site!
|
|
Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
|
|
posted January 05, 2007 12:29 AM |
|
|
|
I think, until they get rid of most of the bugs, Heroes V has too many annoying things. But there are some great improvments of course
|
|
God2
Adventuring Hero
Your benevolent deity
|
|
posted January 05, 2007 08:37 AM |
|
|
Well, considering the single player gameplay sucks horrendously in HOMM5 (the AI, it's all abaut the horrid AI), I am back to HOMM3.
____________
www.shoryuken.com
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted January 05, 2007 12:31 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I usually hate neutrals, especially later when I have tier 7s, I go through them like cheese, and is obviously boring -- too many creeps that is!
If you have level 7s, you're probably advanced enough to skip minor creeps and avoid boredom. The only thing worth to go after then are the arties
Quote:
Heroes V is not meant to be a game where you creep
Yes, it is. With increased costs of dwellings and less resources per pile, it's even more important to get mines than ever before. I still don't understand where the heck you get all those resources from. If I don't clear the map with Deleb, I'm stuck on hell hounds and hell chargers forever! Couse there is "1 crystal missing" or so.. what do you want me to do, pray for a crystal pile somewhere on the map (which generates random resources, so it can be, say, half of the map away..) or pray for a windmill giving me crystal? No, the most logical idea is to kill the creeps and capture the mine.. there are usually a few piles next to the mine too, so my resource problems disappear immediately..
Oh, and if I want to get the level 5 guild AND archdevils at the same time.. No, I simply NEED resource silo, sulfur+mercury mine and at least a few piles of resources to build it all.
Besides, creeping gives you experience (where do you want to get skills otherwise, huh? from chests? well, if you want to lose the game, feel free to do it ) and arties. And some arties are gamebreaking. Slippers for implosion-bearing warlock, +1damage amulet for a necromancer.. yeah, you HAVE to creep to get them (or get lucky in artifact merchants, but without creeping, you don't have the cash to get them lol)
Quote:
And please stop voting as "something sucks" just because you can't creep with it.
What is the pleasure of playing a game where you need to stay in the castle forever, waiting for your enemy, with 10% structures built and no cash&resources to get more..?
Quote:
aaah, I like strategy, but to a point where you arrive at a player-vs-player tactic, not some cheap creeping stuff like "hey I creeped more than you 'cause the neutral AI was stupid and attacked my treants, was only an example, so I simply win the game, right?". If you played Starcraft/Warcraft or other strategy games (Spellforce, Warlords battlecry...) you know what I mean. (no problems at creeping that seem to ruin this game, like cheap 1 sprite vs 10000 zombie tactic. Starcraft for example has no creeps at all, does it make it a very unstrategical game?)
I play warcraft 3 since beta (several YEARS now) and I'm a battle.net veteran. And all I can say is creeping is extremely important there aswell ;p
Quote:
Have a nice day
You too sir!
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted January 05, 2007 12:53 PM |
|
|
Quote:
If you have level 7s, you're probably advanced enough to skip minor creeps and avoid boredom. The only thing worth to go after then are the arties
I go even through Colossi or Devils like cheese, there are no better or stronger creeps than that, except for Dragon Pass (40 tier 7s guarding the exit).
If you miss only 1 crystal you can trade the others (not gold of course).
Then you have the Resource Silo, which isn't that expensive, considering that the money from treasure chests is also "random" and can vary really bad.
Finally you capture mines early, of course -- for example in Sylvan you need crystals, but you can do it on week 2 or even 3 at day 1 -- you don't need so much rush because you'll run out of gold, even with all the treasure chests out there (except some maps which have Gold mines). Plus week 2 is a quick "term", if you play RTS you'll find it very boring while you wait to recruit your units this way... waiting is waiting
Quote:
What is the pleasure of playing a game where you need to stay in the castle forever, waiting for your enemy, with 10% structures built and no cash&resources to get more..?
I don't think playing starcraft gives you no pleasure to recruit armies, fight for resources (yes, without AI.. err I meant creeps) and crush the enemy with strategies instead of powercreeping. You don't need to stay in the castle -- you can capture mines, capture the enemy's mines, fight for them, etc..
And I don't say creeping shouldn't be there, I say there are too many creeps -- you can't even compare a Warcraft map with a Heroes map in terms of creeping (a Warcraft map has at most 2 auxiliary mines besides your "base" one).
Quote:
I play warcraft 3 since beta (several YEARS now) and I'm a battle.net veteran. And all I can say is creeping is extremely important there aswell ;p
Exactly how tough are the creeps in Warcraft? Do you go at the second mine immediately after you recruited 1 Footman, for example? There is no ressurection there, and you don't even need it -- creeps are creeps, they should be extremely weak and scarce, they shouldn't determine the winning/losing conditions for you, the other players should. The main challenge is the player vs player tactic, how you divide your lands and battle for mines -- yup, you and the other players battle for the mines, not you vs creeps. Who said in Heroes that there is only one big battle?
Creeping is creeping, it shouldn't change the fate of the game, the players should.. mostly in MP where you play against a player and not AI, creeps are just in the wrong place -- you just STILL fight with the AI 99% of the time, and that gives you the fate of the game, not the other player himself. That's why I don't like the idea of creeping (who said everything should be guarded?).
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted January 05, 2007 12:59 PM |
|
|
well, ok, if you don't like it, it's perfectly ok.
All I wanted to say is that you won't win any serious game without aggresive map exploration. I can't really say why, but it's always like that. Don't play vs. experienced players with "tanky" style, cuz you WILL lose. Period. Of course it doesn't mean you have to do what I like to do (clearing half of the map in first two weeks), you can do it a week later and it won't change much, but you have to be aggresive, or you will get trashed.
Just get used to it Regards.
|
|
emilsn
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted January 05, 2007 03:24 PM |
|
|
|
Now i've seen tons of people say these words: I take money instead of exp. And i get so angry!! How can you live without that exp?! I ALWAYS take EXP from chest only money if i'm really broke! I don't you get enough exp from creatur fights so i need exp from chest and always did. and if you generate maps, you will see that you might find a chest giving 4000gold or 4000exp ! and if your lvl 1 you are suddenly lvl 5! I tried getting a couple of those and i was lvl 15 within the first week... You can become way more powerfull with exp. and if your a warlord you need magic more then creatures so get exp first(?) so you can have some magic skills and go crazy!!
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted January 05, 2007 04:08 PM |
|
|
|
emilsn: I take money usually on first weeks (1 and 2) 'till I have a Capitol.. Then of course any good analyst of the situation would know that, if you don't have money, you would take gold.. I usually take experience from there on, but sometimes I really need gold.. It's not a "rule", it's more like what you really need. I don't see experience to be worse than gold (even if it means 1 level around lvl15, it's still much, otherwise you're stuck at lvl15 forever ).
|
|
emilsn
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted January 05, 2007 05:39 PM |
|
|
|
I have my capitol within the first 2 weeks, i buy stuff just till i have enough town lvl points to get a capitol.. and then i start buying the 4.5.6.7 creatures (maybe i already have 4 at the time) Because then i can keep taking exp, and still have money
|
| |
|
|
