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| Thread: Light spells- inferior to dark spells? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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Sanyu
Known Hero
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posted January 10, 2007 11:18 AM |
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Light spells- inferior to dark spells?
There's something i don't get.
haste:
Haste (4 Mana)
Causes the selected friendly unit to act more frequently in combat.
Initiative of the target is increased by 10%, 20%, 30% or 40%, depending on Light Magic expertise of the caster (None, Basic, Advanced or Expert).
slow:
Slow (4 Mana)
Makes target enemy stack take fewer actions in combat.
Initiative of the target is decreased by 25%, 30%, 35% or 40%, depending on Dark Magic expertise of the caster (None, Basic, Advanced or Expert).
Somehow, haste starts with a lesser effect (+10%) as compared to slow (-25%) and only balances out at the expert skill levels...
And, another set of spells for comparison...
Deflect Missile:
BlessingDeflect Missile (6 Mana)
Makes the selected friendly unit receive less damage from ranged attacks.
Damage received from ranged attack is reduced by 25%, 40%, 55% or 70%, depending on Light Magic mastery.
Confusion:
Confusion (9 Mana)
Makes creatures in target enemy stack forget what they are doing on a battlefield. Some of the affected creatures will forget to use shooting attacks and retaliation strikes. (The spell does not work on undead, elemental and mechanical units.)
Depending on Dark Magic mastery, 50%, 70%, 90% or 100% of the target stack will forget to act.
If both spells were casted respectively on your own and enemy creatures, deflect missile would shield up to only a maximum of 70% while confusion totally prevents them from shooting.
What i'm trying to point out is simply the fact that light magic is not as effective as dark magic...
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 10, 2007 11:36 AM |
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well, that's bad thinking. Actually, deflect missle is better than confusion - confusion won't work on several dangerous ranged creatures (hordes of skeleton archers, titans) while mass deflect missle is 100% reliable. Also, there are milions of ways to heal confusion (say, paladin's lay hands, cleansing, first aid tent..) while deflect missle is countered ONLY by cleansing.
Besides..
Light magic works better if your army is stronger than opponent's one and is considered "offensive" magic. Dark magic helps to survive - and works better against big armies.
Light magic is rather equal to dark.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 10, 2007 11:37 AM |
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Edited by Shauku83 at 11:40, 10 Jan 2007.
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Dark Magic can always be resisted, Light Magic works 100% of the time.
Edit. Doomforge. Neither does Deflect Missile prevent the shooters from targetting your other stacks, so that works both ways.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted January 10, 2007 01:00 PM |
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Cleanse confusion? Just recast it back 
Actually Dark (aka offensive) is always more powerful than Light because there are certain creature immunities, resistances, cleanses, etc. Targeting your troops will always succeed (except maybe Blackies  ).
Also did you notice that Confusion takes more mana than Deflect Missile? It is supposed to be more powerful anyway. Puppet Master in HoF is overpowered, it should reduce initiative like in 1.4, but anyway Ressurection is good too.
But why did you compare them? Take both and you'll see the combo 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 10, 2007 02:10 PM |
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dark isn't offensive. Dark is purely defensive. Say, weakening, slowing, cursing.. etc.. it's all about lowering the offensive potential of enemy forces, so it's kinda reverse defence-buffing.
Of course there are spells like frenzy, puppet etc.. but still the magic serves mainly to buy you more time.
Taking both is wonderful, yes, but only knights and wizards can really do it effectively..
TheDeath: Puppet still makes a little revolution @ ATB bar. Did some testing in the duel mode and it still kicked the marksmen ico far away on the bar. ;X
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted January 10, 2007 02:27 PM |
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I agree, but when I say "offensive" I usually mean "cast it on enemy troops", sorry if it isn't the meaning you use 
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 10, 2007 02:28 PM |
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Edited by Shauku83 at 14:29, 10 Jan 2007.
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Yep, Light is surprisingly more offensive. It is better when you have a big army, dark is better when the opponent has a bigger army. But both have spells also to be defensive/offensive. Good schools.
But I would never ever say Deflect Missile is better than Confusion. No way! Confusion is probably the best level 3 spell, even more useful than many level 4 spells. Mass Confusion nullifies the enemy shooters and gives all your creatures no-retaliation; Mass Deflect just nullifies enemy shooters (well, 70% of them)
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Archmage_Faiz
Disgraceful
Hired Hero
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posted January 10, 2007 02:39 PM |
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Yes, light magic is petty weak, go for dark as Haven. But Destructive magic is better than both.
____________
"For those who live in the past, there is no future."
/King Darios of Persia
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted January 10, 2007 02:46 PM |
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Quote:
But Destructive magic is better than both.
If you have spellpower and few creatures...
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted January 10, 2007 03:21 PM |
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Quote:
Yes, light magic is petty weak, go for dark as Haven. But Destructive magic is better than both.
Hmm... I wouldn't say that any of the school of spells are better then others? Because they their own effects! I love to get master of earthblood and lay those nasty fire mines all over map.,.. works great.
Just as much as i love to take Helmar (dwarf hero) and optain huge amount of light magic and then go crazy!
I cannot see how you can say how the one is stronger then the other one...
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Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
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posted January 10, 2007 08:32 PM |
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I fancy Dark Magic. Master of Mind incorporates bothe slow and confusion - my favourites. Frenzy, Blind and Puppet Master can be very useful.
Dark Magic have more tactical than Light Magic.
Many Light magic spells are available through skills:
Teleport assault, Earthquake, Mass Haste, Mass Endurance.
Dark Magic can be imbued on Rangers arrows.
Though Light magic is after all reliable, which makes the biggest difference.
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Sanyu
Known Hero
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posted January 12, 2007 12:07 PM |
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Can anyone explain for the haste-is-weaker-than-slow thingy???
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 12, 2007 12:43 PM |
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No. That seems completely random. Both spells should have 10 % / 20 % / 30 % / 40 % if you ask me.
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What will happen now?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 12, 2007 01:50 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 13:54, 12 Jan 2007.
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Quote:
Yes, light magic is petty weak, go for dark as Haven. But Destructive magic is better than both.
...You are inexperienced aren't you?
As for the haste-slow comparison there's more. Suppose we have them both on expert for 40%.
Haste: +40% initiative. Your creatures' initiative compared to your opponent's is 1.4/1=1.4
Slow: -40% initiative. Your creatures' initiative compared to your opponent's is 1/0.6=1.66
As a result dark is a bit more effective generally. Of course each spell is used best in different situation so there's no problem with that.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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dschingi
Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
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posted January 12, 2007 02:33 PM |
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Elvin is right. Most Dark Magic spells have a greater effect than Light Spells:
- Haste/Slow: Like Elvin explained. Slow is also better vs. Neutrals because it increases initiative of your hero compared to the neutrals, Haste does not.
- Deflect Missile/Confusion: 100% is obviously better than 70% and Confusion also prevents your enemies to retaliate, I think it is on of the best spells in the game at mass version.
- Rightous Might/Vulnerability: Rightous Might has greater effect here, but Vulnerability can be cast more than once and can't be dispelled (but it has no mass effect, just area effect)
However, Dark can be resisted. So it depends on your army and your enemy's army which spell school is better. Both have offensive and defensive spells. Anyway, Dark is probably better with a smaller army as it has Slow, Confusion, Blind, Frenzy, Puppet Master. With these spells you get more time and your hero may kill neutrals with spells. This way it fits better with a magic orientated hero.
Light has more offensive than defensive spells which can give an already good army another great boost so it fits better to a might hero.
Still, spells like Puppet Master, Frenzy and Resurrection are good for everyone...
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted January 12, 2007 03:23 PM |
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Edited by Istari at 15:24, 12 Jan 2007.
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Light and Dark magic spells were made to mirror each other, with light spells enhancing an army to the same degree that dark magic curses an army. They play very differently, based on your tactics but they should be of equal potency. It does not make sense that dark magic is given an advantage over light magic. Maybe now we will stop hearing people complain about how Nival favors the "good" side.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 12, 2007 03:30 PM |
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I seem to recall an old tavern rumour: The dark side is stronger!
At first I'd rather have resurrection but puppet master has been stronger as of 1.4(or 1.3 can't remember). Even if the unit is attacked it is still controlled. Resurrection of course reduces your losses in every battle so it's a close call.
I admit that I am more keen on cursing than buffing so I prefer dark though I get mostly light with haven. Why? Its purpose is to charge and sustain itself. And I believe that with light mastery you can end a battle quicker which haven needs especially vs casters. Not to mention good old bless on the marksmen! Could also be that traditionally knights go light and I have a thing for tradition!
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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FreshHope
Adventuring Hero
Defender of Light
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posted January 12, 2007 07:03 PM |
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As dschingi mentioned, light spells are mostly offensive, whereas dark spells are mostly defensive, depending on gameplay and preferrence. I personally prefer light spells, as i'm generally more offensive in gameplay, and there's always the mighty ressurection spell to conserve my troops 
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted January 14, 2007 02:15 PM |
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Quote:
dark isn't offensive. Dark is purely defensive. Say, weakening, slowing, cursing.. etc.. it's all about lowering the offensive potential of enemy forces, so it's kinda reverse defence-buffing.
Of course there are spells like frenzy, puppet etc.. but still the magic serves mainly to buy you more time.
But what about Endurance/Vulnerability?
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Archmage_Faiz
Disgraceful
Hired Hero
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posted January 14, 2007 02:48 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Yes, light magic is petty weak, go for dark as Haven. But Destructive magic is better than both.
...You are inexperienced aren't you?
Crushing AI on Heroic in all campaigns, but petty inexperienced in multiplayer yes...
Destructive Magic is GREAT, with Dungeon and somethimes Sylvan...
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"For those who live in the past, there is no future."
/King Darios of Persia
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