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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted November 02, 2007 08:56 AM |
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Edited by Nirual at 09:03, 02 Nov 2007.
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Summoning is actually quite viable if used right, but of course it can't keep up with Empowered Lucky destructive spells.
I don't see why those two skills had to be that one-sided. Of course, not all spells would make sense, but something like an Empowered Phoenix would be fun to see... and give a Warlock more options rather than just Destructive Magic all the time.
Oh, and screw Corrupted Soil. That little extra damage isn't worth giving up a Master of... for. It only works if the stack is actually moving and isn't flying or teleporting.
Which is to say that against Sylvan, it works on:
Bladedancers/Winddancers; pretty viable in the latter case since you'll want to move those every turn for the defense bonus. Still not too much damage, but kills a few.
Unicorns;
Treants; Won't really move much if it's an Ancient Treant covering his archers and druids, and they have a lot of health so it doesn't matter much.
The most use of Corrupted Soil I've seen so far is against Furies, thanks to their high initative and strike and return. That's right, they actually take the damage two times per turn unless they are told not to return after the attack (ctrl)
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted November 02, 2007 09:20 AM |
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I always picked summoning before tote, now it isnt viable, especially against sylvan. You'll never see treants in multiplayer games, maybe only as creeps.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 02, 2007 10:23 AM |
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Maybe not in all maps but in disputed island they are a necessity unless you manage to get last stand so you can break the several phoenixes with just hunters and sprites.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted November 02, 2007 12:04 PM |
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we were talking about dungeon
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Nemira
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 02, 2007 01:06 PM |
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Quote:
Maybe not in all maps but in disputed island they are a necessity unless you manage to get last stand so you can break the several phoenixes with just hunters and sprites.
Can those phoenixes be killed in month 1 without summoning magic? And I mean as sylvan / haven / fortress / stonghold. As both academy and dungeon will prolly have enough spellpower to nuke them out, and a necro without summoning... well that's a very bad bad necro! 
-Nemi
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted November 02, 2007 01:49 PM |
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Dont know the map. But pls dont infestate this thread with sylvan too. Im gonna kill all those tree-shagging flower-sniffers sometime.
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted November 02, 2007 03:15 PM |
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Tough luck for you, since Sylvan outclasses every other faction in TotE
Anyway, my advice as dungeon vs sylvan would be to:
1. Get swift mind, if you cast first you atleast stand a chance.
2. Don't fight on grass, familiar ground is a killer it gives +2 speed to all of sylvan units
3. Try to get the staff of the netherworld, maybe some luck reducing arties too
In the best case you'll be relying on luck with ATB bar and again luck for a lucky empowered first cast... since warlock's luck is hard to get now the chances for this scenario are rather slim.
Another possibility if you can get frenzy/pupet from somewhere, is to get Lethos + swift mind so you can pupet/frenzy the crystal/emerald dragons before they get to go and eventually kill the hunters with them 
The odds are not in you farvor anyway, so you have to take risks.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 02, 2007 05:47 PM |
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the problem is you have to get frenzy or puppet from another town/utopia/etc.. not very reliable
plus 14 init creatures will most likely act before your hero even with swift mind
ah yeah grass terrain = GG, all sylvan units get the first blow
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted November 02, 2007 06:23 PM |
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Edited by kermit at 18:27, 02 Nov 2007.
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Don't remember where we had this discussion but the number of 16 ini for hero with swift mind pops up. For everything else, yeah low chance combos are unreliable but unless you take some risks and get lucky you'll face certain defeat Think of it this way, a strategy that might lett you win in 10% of the cases is better than a certain loss
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted November 02, 2007 06:47 PM |
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If you can kill the elves' luck, you can take their first shots and have enough army left to hurt them. With 2 cursed rings you drop the luck down to 1 at the very worst. Add that nasty cloak and they're no longer going to gut you.
Yeah, all of them are going to be up in your grill so your Raider's strike is going to be blunted. The dragons and the archers are your worst enemies. Unless things have changed and stalkers are now wtfpwnj00 awesome you'll still have your matriarchs split. Slow and confuse from the matriarchs. Whether you stack 2 spells onto the dragons or archers or split between the two of them I'm not yet sure which is the best combination. For the sake of argument slow both of them. That way you'll have a chance to have your minotaurs eat a retaliation from the dragons. Yeah they're slow. But they have decent numbers and they swing twice. Also, do everything you can to free up your Raiders.
Is summoning really worthless against Sylvan? I don't know. I like being able to cast Arcane Armor on my Hydras and Dragons (Red Dragons for those of you who want to pipe up about blackies being immune). I understand about the Phoenix's limited usefulness. If it only was affected by wind boots it'd be awesome. Elementals..no...Hive...12 initiative is too slow to keep up with Sylvan. Imagine that...12 initiative being too slow.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted November 02, 2007 07:00 PM |
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Edited by samiekl at 19:01, 02 Nov 2007.
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do you guys even know what you're talking about? Sorry, i couldnt help it 
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted November 02, 2007 07:13 PM |
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Try me.
Edit: Do I need to clarify that slow/confuse is a very temporary solution at best? Or should I go into greater depth and add unicorns to the list of most dangerous units when Dungeon faces Ylithin.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted November 02, 2007 07:41 PM |
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Edited by samiekl at 19:46, 02 Nov 2007.
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Ok... i've tried it in hotseat. Me vs me . im not a good sylvan player of course, but i wanted to nullify sylvan's first blow. Well, im not a good dungeon player anyway, so...
Skills... very important:
Expert destructive - master of fire - secrets of destruction - ignite
Expert enlightenment - intelligence - eagle eye
Expert sorcery - mana reg - arcane training
Advanced logistics - scouting - swift mind
Basic attack - tactics
Now, you must rush to lvl-ups, always be ahead of him.
Never fight on grass and get + defense artifacts and spellpower. Of course +init is recommended.
You need hit-and-runs unfortunately. First blow, no artifacts, just stalkers, do as much damage as you can and run. Repeat that as much as its necessary then come and finish off the job.
Well... it might sound easy, but it's not.
I have to try it yet vs a good player.
Ah yeah... rush to buildings too... You need many creatures.
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ismail222
Known Hero
The Cataclysm
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posted November 02, 2007 08:16 PM |
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in let's fight,u can obtain many lvls easily,so u're better off getting warlock's luck,cause it can be really important,and no point in disabiling tactics since syvlan gets alotta speed boosting stuff,and if u play a quick game (small maps) u're alot better off with cold death than ignite,easy creeping,very ^.^
edit : if u can get runeforce then it's very useful too 
and the lion's set ^_^
____________
Ppl griveing,Ppl
Deceving,Ppl lying,Ppl dying
One Word : Life
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ismail222
Known Hero
The Cataclysm
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posted November 02, 2007 08:20 PM |
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Quote:
Can those phoenixes be killed in month 1 without summoning magic?
-Nemi
i guess haven has a good chance with many peasents and marksmen + precise shot ^.^
____________
Ppl griveing,Ppl
Deceving,Ppl lying,Ppl dying
One Word : Life
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted November 03, 2007 01:38 AM |
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Cold death does the trick with the Phoenix. Phoenix is also particularly stupid against Necro because of the Wraith's harm touch.
Phoenix is awesome against the map but you need to be able to A. Cast cheap Phoenixes, and B. replenish enough mana the next day to do it again.
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted November 03, 2007 04:53 PM |
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Maps with a very strong block are very bad for dungeon. If such block can't be broken by magic only then creature growth is needed to break them. That means both players just have to RELY on getting the growth: they have to RELY on creatures.
Too bad that:
1. Dungeon has BY FAR the worst base grwoth in the game.
2. Sylvan has BY FAR the best base growth in the game.
Other castles may match sylvan's line up mightiness by: training, runes, bloodrage, artificer(but mentor a might hero), necromancy(mentor needed to). Dungeon and inferno just can't.
A warlock is a magic hero - he can't be expected to be effective later: he just can't perform might hero's tasks(might = using creatures to actually fight; magic = using creatures as HP punch bags). Dungeon's best shot to win vs sylvan would be:
1. Hit and run as much as possible.(hard/impossible to do)
2. For final battle mentor somehow(dig through tavern) a barbarian: he can actually survive the first strike of sylvan's forces. Still, dungeon's troops are just too weak so he will most likely lose anyway. But he may have weaken ranger's troops so that warlocks may eventually pull off a win with further hit and runs somehow. (even harder/"more" impossible to do).
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted November 03, 2007 05:32 PM |
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Quote:
2. Sylvan has BY FAR the best base growth in the game.
Care to elaborate? If you mean base creature growth, then Sylvan hardly is the best with (10/9/7/4/3/2/1).
If you mean base growth in therms of creature power, you're probably right, but Dungeon isn't a lot worse. In fact, both factions are quite alike with low growths but strong creatures, although Sylvan fares better with that fact as a might faction. Plus, their growth buildings don't require creature sacrifice.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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Legendary_hero
Known Hero
Stronghold Warchief
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posted November 03, 2007 05:35 PM |
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I think Inferno is better then Sylvan
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted November 03, 2007 06:43 PM |
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Yes, I meant the quality of the base growth. I mean:
might hero with sylvan troops >>> might hero with dungeon troops.
It makes sense because sylvan's line up strike first and hits pretty hard.
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