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| Thread: Boris Yeltsin is dead | |
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Colonel_here
Adventuring Hero
Descendant of Ghengis Khan
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posted April 23, 2007 11:31 PM |
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Boris Yeltsin is dead
So the first president of Russia dies leaving behind the legacy of ruined lives, corruption and destroyed economy. Not to mention the fact that he was world class drunk.
One thing is clear that he started out good and than power got to his brain.
As far as I know not too many Russians would be saddened by his death.
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"The job of saving the lives of those who are sinking is the task of those who are sinking" - Ostap Bender
"Only a fool fights a battle he knows he can not win" - Ghengiz Khan
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 24, 2007 12:15 AM |
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I am a Russian, and I am saddened by his death. True, he may not have done much to stop corruption, but he overthrew Communism. Sure, the Mafia may be opressing the people now because of him, but now, at least, it's illegal (at least, nominally). At least he stopped the government opression (even though that's starting back up now).
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Eccentric Opinion
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Colonel_here
Adventuring Hero
Descendant of Ghengis Khan
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posted April 24, 2007 04:26 AM |
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Yes he managed to destroy Soviet Union. He removed a strong government for the one that could not keep its own officials in check. He stole money from the people. Destroyed people's lives and livelihood. He gave away country's industries and opened the door for criminals.
Sure people can voice their opinion if anybody listens.
But at least before people did not have to be afraid to cross the streets because some guy will run them over and won't care. Or shoot them because he felt like it and get away with it because he can threaten the judge's family. Hey even cops can do that and get away with ti because they will bribe people to say that you were doing something illegal.
Before Yeltsin veterans and elderly did not have to sell sunflower seeds to survive because their pensions are too small to even pay for electricity, water and gas. You can get the diploma of any university in Russia now just for the right price, they sell them in the Moscow's subways. Finally, the teachers did not have to sell the grades to their students for food.
He is praised in the West I can see why. He and Gorbachev together took down the enemy the Western countries had. He transformed the superpower into a country, whose power comes from the rusty old nuclear arsenal. (thanks to Putin the military at least started to get better).
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"The job of saving the lives of those who are sinking is the task of those who are sinking" - Ostap Bender
"Only a fool fights a battle he knows he can not win" - Ghengiz Khan
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Shai-Hulud
Known Hero
Sicomor
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posted April 24, 2007 05:10 AM |
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The saga of the lie.
Funny thing, I read just 2 days ago the articles on wikipedia about Gorbachev,Yeltsin and Putin.
Colonel_here, you speak from your own perspective living i suppose in Russia. But you seem to care about only your people, not others.
I'm from Romania, an ex-Soviet country. I was born in 87, and in 89 was the revolution. Guess what? I'm happy Romania has its own freedom. Romania also had and still has the problems you talk about there. But its trying to overcome them. Those are the effects of forced communism!What do you people do? Linger about your super powers when the Union was on, sucking so much from the Soviet country?
For one, Romania had its fair share troughout the history of russian involvment, and not in a good way. In 91-92, when Moldovia was protesting for unification with the new democratic Romania, who brought up the 13th Army in Transnistria? Even now Russia its taking suspicious involvement in Moldovia's politics.
Do I have to mention its over 70 years since the Romania's national treasuries(gold) are in Russia , never to be returned.So many of that gold is where now?On the walls of the Puskhin Palace.Romania was also a member of the Union. Even a strongly firmed member( remember the invasion of Czech Communist Republic afaik which Romania didn't attend to? ), the gold was never to be retrieved.
Of course, go on an linger more about the so-called Perfect Union.Actually it was just a big money sucking Russia,draining from others on the aftermath of the Yalta Conference.Stalin had agreed at Yalta to the principle of a liberated Europe, which stated that liberated peoples would have the right to democratic self government. Stalin also agreed that Poland would hold democratic, free elections as soon as feasible. In the alternative opinion, the problem was not the Yalta Conference Agreement itself, but rather Stalin's violation of the Yalta Conference Agreement.Yes elections were held, but everyone already knew that the results were made by Stalin.
So, you still want to support this mockery called Soviet Union?
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~~~Azzy~~~
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Trogdor
Legendary Hero
Words in a custom title
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posted April 24, 2007 12:54 PM |
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Quote:
I am a Russian, and I am saddened by his death. True, he may not have done much to stop corruption, but he overthrew Communism. Sure, the Mafia may be opressing the people now because of him, but now, at least, it's illegal (at least, nominally). At least he stopped the government opression (even though that's starting back up now).
Well at least he did a better job than Putin is doing now.
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"Through the power of the dollar you can communicate with the dead." - Artu
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted April 24, 2007 03:43 PM |
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Quote:
He is praised in the West I can see why. He and Gorbachev together took down the enemy the Western countries had. He transformed the superpower into a country, whose power comes from the rusty old nuclear arsenal.
Supercountry ? Soviet Union was at the edge of bankrupcy when Gorbachev started perestroika, and since the freedom of speech pact all the countries under soviet banner which were taken by force, were waiting when they will release them, and so they got free, as a person living within one of those countries I still manage to admire how can few greedy and power obsessed people covering with an idiology which is unreal destroy so much of our countries potential and leave us around 30 years behind the rest of the Europe, when at our independence on 1918-1940 we were equal to other western countries.
It is sad that Jeltsin died, even though he had some flaws he at least tried to do some democracy there, I respect him for that. And now with Putin in charge who knows when there will be normal democracy again, not just made up one, with rules ever changing...
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted April 24, 2007 03:59 PM |
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About the Soviet Union, it played its role in history; and when it was over, it split up. Thankfully. Communism should not exist.
I can only feel sorry for the nations and peoples that were under Soviet boots. Yugoslavia had a communist government independent and much better to the people than that of the Soviets, but it still sucked. I can just imagine how awful it was to those who suffered stalinism.
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Well at least he did a better job than Putin is doing now.
That's totally not true. Putin is uncomparable to him in every way. The thing about Putin is that he probably has more than he's willing to share with the world, seeing how he can afford worsing relations with the United States so deliberately.
Check the smaller things, for example. There's a lot more into details than it seems.
In 1999, Russia, under Yeltzin, was forced into allowing the bombing of Yugoslavia (although completely unwillingly), and now, under Putin, they have regained the power needed to openly support us about the entire situation at Kosovo and similar, completely standing against America once again; either Putin is mentally deranged or he has something up his sleeves.
That situation is the closest to me; but there are also more similar conflicts around the world involving USA and Russia. That inclines that Russia is again a major power in the world and that balance can be restored (the sooner the better; USA really started dangerously playing with the world)...
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted April 24, 2007 04:20 PM |
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However as living in neighbourhood with Russia we suffer putin's regime's most insideous aspects, such as blackmailing, using the oil and resources (for example if we don't do what they suggest they turn off oil supply, and they did actually) then we have constant spionage and attempts to take over the influence of the goverment through a puppet political forces, which spawn in every elections. Also the genetical purge during stalinism works for their favor as most intelligence was banished away... so people are not very that bright, especially in villages. Also there's undeniable presence of companies and structures that somehow seek to undermine our countries' efforts. There was once an investigation made to see where those companies recieve financing from... and it lead to Russian govermental institution.
Of course I cannot really completely understand your side of truth as I don't live there nor I had any experiences with that, but you can't also deny my side of truth either, as you don't live here.
I am really sure that we are shown only very little of the real situation going on behind the scenes and that everything might change pretty soon without us even managing to say... "wtf?"
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Colonel_here
Adventuring Hero
Descendant of Ghengis Khan
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posted April 24, 2007 05:06 PM |
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Quote:
I'm from Romania, an ex-Soviet country. I was born in 87, and in 89 was the revolution. Guess what? I'm happy Romania has its own freedom. Romania also had and still has the problems you talk about there. But its trying to overcome them. Those are the effects of forced communism!What do you people do? Linger about your super powers when the Union was on, sucking so much from the Soviet country?
For one, Romania had its fair share troughout the history of russian involvment, and not in a good way. In 91-92, when Moldovia was protesting for unification with the new democratic Romania, who brought up the 13th Army in Transnistria? Even now Russia its taking suspicious involvement in Moldovia's politics.
Do I have to mention its over 70 years since the Romania's national treasuries(gold) are in Russia , never to be returned.So many of that gold is where now?On the walls of the Puskhin Palace.Romania was also a member of the Union. Even a strongly firmed member( remember the invasion of Czech Communist Republic afaik which Romania didn't attend to? ), the gold was never to be retrieved. quote]
First of all after the the communist leader of Romania early on in his career stoped talking with Moscow or going there and after Hungarian episode he told Moscow to go to hell. And Moscow did not interfere with any of his crasiness. However the democratic West loved your communist leader. He visited White house and Buckigham palace very often. He was knighted by the Queen Elizabeth II.
As for gold I believe that was taken as reparation payments after WWII.
As for Putin, well he is doing things right. He is picking up Russian military in terms of hardware and the training. He is setting up Russia again as the opposition to US. He doesn't want to be another country that says yes to US. The move is clear to US as well too.
After Yukos affair he demonstrated to Russian oligarchs that they are no longer outside the reach of the law. He is consolidating governmental power to decrease the corruption.
As for oil and gas being used to punich governments well that is partially true and I see no problem with that. When Ukraine and Georgia started to spit and throw dirt on Russia. What was Russia supposed to do? Take it and still give them oil and gas at friendly price rates. They stoped being friends so the did the prices. And prices are not something extremely high. Georgia is getting gas from Iran at $340.
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"The job of saving the lives of those who are sinking is the task of those who are sinking" - Ostap Bender
"Only a fool fights a battle he knows he can not win" - Ghengiz Khan
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Shai-Hulud
Known Hero
Sicomor
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posted April 24, 2007 05:41 PM |
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First of all after the the communist leader of Romania early on in his career stoped talking with Moscow or going there and after Hungarian episode he told Moscow to go to hell. And Moscow did not interfere with any of his crasiness. However the democratic West loved your communist leader. He visited White house and Buckigham palace very often. He was knighted by the Queen Elizabeth II.
Actually no...Gheorghiu Dej from the Socialist period suffered a suspicious death and all leading to Moscow.Ceausescu on the other hand was very loyal to the stalinist ways and was a crazy man dreaming of communistic utopia. He started to shut Moscow contact when Gorbaciov advised for market open trade.
Also, Ceausescu was not open to the western world at all.Proof?In 1978, Ion Mihai Pacepa, a senior member of the Romanian political police (Securitate), defected to the United States. A 2-star general, he was the highest ranking defector from the Soviet bloc in the history of the Cold War. His defection was a powerful blow against the regime, forcing Ceauşescu to overhaul the architecture of the Securitate. Pacepa's 1986 book, Red Horizons: Chronicles of a Communist Spy Chief, reveals details of Ceauşescu's regime, such as his collaboration with Arab terrorists, his massive espionage on American industry and his elaborate efforts to rally Western political support.
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As for gold I believe that was taken as reparation payments after WWII.
Absolutely incorrect. That gold was given to Russia in the aftermath of Bucharest occupation from the nazi forces.The Romanian Royal Family feared for fully nazi occupation so they wanted to secure the national treasury till the war was over. Romania at that time pledged alliance to Russia and the Alliance. But cause Russia delayed for a long time help on the romanian front of war in the end Romania had to capitulate. No treaty in Paris considered that gold as war payment.
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As for Putin, well he is doing things right. He is picking up Russian military in terms of hardware and the training. He is setting up Russia again as the opposition to US. He doesn't want to be another country that says yes to US. The move is clear to US as well too.
Indeed... forcing diplomatic agreements is what you call "doing things right"? Espionage, massive political influence and throwing threats is the peace way. Putin is just proving to me one of those mindless Russian leaders who just wants the Good Ol' Soviet Union. FOR MOTHER RUSSIA 
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~~~Azzy~~~
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted April 24, 2007 06:37 PM |
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forcing diplomatic agreements is what you call "doing things right"? Espionage, massive political influence and throwing threats is the peace way.
Well, they're a superpower. That's the way it goes. I mean, just take a look at what the US is doing. Do you think your or mine or ANY country would be any better if it were a superpower?
They are expanding their influence to confront the western powers. Russia, China and a few smaller countries on one, and USA and its vassals on the other side.
The only thing I pity about it are the lives that are ought to be lost in the new cold war (and there probably will be one). That means new Vietnams, new North Koreas, etcetera etcetera. And one of the battlefields might be disturbingly close to me this time...
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Colonel_here
Adventuring Hero
Descendant of Ghengis Khan
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posted April 24, 2007 10:14 PM |
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Indeed... forcing diplomatic agreements is what you call "doing things right"? Espionage, massive political influence and throwing threats is the peace way. Putin is just proving to me one of those mindless Russian leaders who just wants the Good Ol' Soviet Union. FOR MOTHER RUSSIA
According to the idea of Social contract the people have a right to remove the government that doesn't act in their interests. Therefore any government should (there are those that don't) act in interests of its people.
If the above things are all for benefit of the Russian citizens I don't see any problem with that.
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"The job of saving the lives of those who are sinking is the task of those who are sinking" - Ostap Bender
"Only a fool fights a battle he knows he can not win" - Ghengiz Khan
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homam
Known Hero
Sailor of the open seas
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posted May 02, 2007 01:18 AM |
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Communism.Practically bad.Imaginary theorie.But it was good.With communism and Soviet union there was another great power to compete US.
Putin:very intelligent and charismatic leader.He seems like the only president who can rise Russia again.I believe that Russia today is the most powerfull country in the world.I believe that russian technology is by far better than any other country's.
I don't believe in prophecies.But one prophecy says that the nation that will finally rule the world will be the christian-orthodoxic nation which it's name will starts from 17th letter of greek alphabet which is "R".Those are Russia and Romania.I think they mean Russia.
Also there are very clues that proove that the rise of russian empire is coming.Putin does anything he wants without fear.I 'm a bit sceptical.Usa is in a very bad economical situation due to all these wars.It's a weak giant.
Usa placed rockets in Chech republic and Turkey that can hit from there russian targets.USA claims that they are there for protection from north Korea.Russia don't want US rockets in it's neighborhood.
So they have now the best rockets placed inside Russia that can hit targets in USA.They have also the answer to US war airplanes.They have a new war airplane that can hit simulteanously 3 hostile airplanes.
I believe that Russia is much more strong from what it seems.Thanks to Putin 
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I think we aren't in Kansas anymore Toto
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted May 02, 2007 01:32 AM |
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As a person (note a person, not a moderator, as I do not intervene into this forum) I find this post highly nationalistic and insultive.
Even though you may believe in your countries superiority, undermining other countries with such idea os superpower or enslavement is way offhand here...
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homam
Known Hero
Sailor of the open seas
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posted May 02, 2007 01:41 AM |
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Quote:
As a person (note a person, not a moderator, as I do not intervene into this forum) I find this post highly nationalistic and insultive.
Even though you may believe in your countries superiority, undermining other countries with such idea os superpower or enslavement is way offhand here...
yeah u may have right.But i'm not even russian.The most i wrote were things i heard.
Not mine.
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I think we aren't in Kansas anymore Toto
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Colonel_here
Adventuring Hero
Descendant of Ghengis Khan
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posted May 02, 2007 04:21 AM |
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Well Putin will be leaving office soon. He made it official that he won't be staying. He might try for the governor of Saint Peterburg province or the mayor of Saint Peterburg.
Russian technology is returning it has superiority over USA in some parts however in air power Russia is only catching up since it doesn lack stealth fighters and bombers.
Russia presents the most likely power to compete again with USA in world sphere since EU never realised yet into United States of Europe and China is still not really that interested.
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"The job of saving the lives of those who are sinking is the task of those who are sinking" - Ostap Bender
"Only a fool fights a battle he knows he can not win" - Ghengiz Khan
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