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| Thread: Idea for new Duel option | |
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 26, 2007 10:27 PM |
bonus applied. |
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Idea for new Duel option
My idea is very similar to Warhammer Mark of Chaos approach or Etherlords.
The duel starts with choosing some options.
a) Level of each hero
b) Amount of money to spend on artifacts and units
c) Do we want to have access to all units or just to some of them (chosen randomly for example)
d) Number of minor/major/relic artifacts available to buy
Having those things chosen we can move to hero creation.
a) Process starts with choosing a hero or going random hero.
b) Then it is time for random distribution of statistics (according to percentages for each race)
c) Knowing stats you move to ability selection. To increase random factor it may be done exactly the same way as it is in standard game. You would be just picking one by one. Spells of lvls 1-2 can be add randomly after choosing schools for them. Spells from lvls 3-5 can be add randomly while hero advances in magic skills. For example: when you gain basic destructive magic you get a free random 3rd lvl destructive magic spell. When you get advanced destructive you get random 4th lvl destructive spell and so on.
d) Having your hero hot and ready to go , you can buy army for him. Costs of units however, shouldn't be the same as it is in the game. Every unit should be equally cost effective.
e) Remaining gold you can use to buy some artifacts. To increase random factor again you shouldn't be able to choose from all available artifacts but rather having limited option. Choosing artifacts from random pile at the last stage would introduce some creation tactics like: do i want to risk and leave much money on artifacts (I may be given poor artifacts to choose from)
This kind of option would be fun. Quite high random factor should make each game different. Creation process would be smooth and easy. I'm not a programmer but i think this kind of option could be easily implemented. It could attract many people that don't have enough time to play standard game - the current duel system is quite boring(no changes.
There might be even tournaments involving few players. Each player would create his hero only once and would be fighting with other players in cup system - loser is out.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 26, 2007 10:44 PM |
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I'm sure the 1.5 duel presset editor is not that far, perhaps next month we'll see it. Maybe it's better if we comment after it's out, to see what we're dealing with.
nice suggestions btw. 
ps: how can something easy like this be impossible to program?  it's more like a design than a programming stuff 
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted April 26, 2007 10:46 PM |
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Yes, very nice suggestions. I'm sure the Duel Preset Editor is something like this
Though I don't like random very much, but I know choosing from every possible artifact will be imbalanced, for example
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 26, 2007 10:49 PM |
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Choosing from the same things all the time would lead to exactly the same games. Random factor would make games different.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted April 27, 2007 12:18 AM |
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Quote:
d) Having your hero hot and ready to go , you can buy army for him. Costs of units however, shouldn't be the same as it is in the game. Every unit should be equally cost effective.
Interesting suggestions indeed - and would be fun, because the leveling-up part of the Heroes is always fun and would allow you to better customize.
I'm not sure I agree with introducing a "different" cost system, because I think it's impossible to make it completely cost-efficiency based - how can you exactly asses a units effectivity anyway? I think the current cost of the units are supposed to reflect their worth, and I think they do so pretty well in most instances.
Alternatively, you could use some other external property like creature Power to "shop" for, so that you are allowed to shop a certain "Power" quota for your army. I'm not sure it'd be better or worse than standard gold cost, but at least it would be something different.
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What will happen now?
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dschingi
Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
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posted April 27, 2007 12:33 AM |
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I had similar thoughts to change the duels, but never really developed any concrete ideas about it.
This new type of duels could improve the game a lot. Besides the old system could remain as an option.
The only problem is that it would take a long time for each game, but I think it would be worth it.
Quote:
d) Having your hero hot and ready to go , you can buy army for him. Costs of units however, shouldn't be the same as it is in the game. Every unit should be equally cost effective.
I would even go as far to say the costs should increase the more creatures you buy of one type. What else would prevent a Warlock from buying one huge stack of hydras (and perhaps 6 assassins as cannon fodder) and blast the enemy with destructive spells? The same thing could even work for Sylvan with upgraded treants who have unlimited retaliations when they use their special. Haven with many griffins would be dangerous as well, as they can use battle dive against ranged troops and just defend against melee troops...
Quote:
e) Remaining gold you can use to buy some artifacts. To increase random factor again you shouldn't be able to choose from all available artifacts but rather having limited option. Choosing artifacts from random pile at the last stage would introduce some creation tactics like: do i want to risk and leave much money on artifacts (I may be given poor artifacts to choose from)
Excellent idea to choose some artifacts randomly!
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open source for an open mind
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 27, 2007 12:40 AM |
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Quote:
I'm not sure I agree with introducing a "different" cost system, because I think it's impossible to make it completely cost-efficiency based - how can you exactly asses a units effectivity anyway? I think the current cost of the units are supposed to reflect their worth, and I think they do so pretty well in most instances.
Well, when i was writing about different costs i was thinking mostly about overpriced lvl 7 units. Of course its difficult to exactly evaluate creatures , im just saying that these costs can differ from those we have now.
Power could be interesting idea but i guess it would be more difficult to connect it with artifacts. There is such connection by gold already. Of course nothing stands against doing power cost for artifacts but why doing something that already exists
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted April 27, 2007 09:44 AM |
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Quote:
I would even go as far to say the costs should increase the more creatures you buy of one type. What else would prevent a Warlock from buying one huge stack of hydras (and perhaps 6 assassins as cannon fodder) and blast the enemy with destructive spells? The same thing could even work for Sylvan with upgraded treants who have unlimited retaliations when they use their special. Haven with many griffins would be dangerous as well, as they can use battle dive against ranged troops and just defend against melee troops...
(...)
Excellent idea to choose some artifacts randomly!
Yes, I think this is an excellent point. I think perhaps a key would be to make it so that when you choose the "advancement" of your Hero, i.e. his experience level, that is somehow linked to a "time" in game, so that if you choose to have your HEro have enough XP to grow to level 20, then the game links that to, say, one month's worth of play (just an exampe). Then, at your disposal, you would have 4 weeks growth of each unit, and then you have to pick how many and which you wanna recruit.
The system might be different, because the suggestion above probably would favor high-level units - so one could imagine that based again on the length of this virtual game time, some "external dwellings" were added to increase the growth of some units. This could be random, or systemized (in week 1 you get a level 1 dwelling, in week 2 a level 2 dwelling, and so on, not necessarily one per week, but some pattern).
For the artifacts, I agree only a selection should be available, something like the Artifact Merchant - but again, the longer virtual game time, the larger a selection ought be available. If you pick a low-level match-up, the number of Relics should obviously be limited.
Quote:
Power could be interesting idea but i guess it would be more difficult to connect it with artifacts. There is such connection by gold already. Of course nothing stands against doing power cost for artifacts but why doing something that already exists.
Yes, that is a good point.
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What will happen now?
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 27, 2007 12:30 PM |
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I too think that some limitation in army formation should be introduced.
My idea for it would be following:
You may spend
20%-60% of gold for units from lvl 1-3
10%-50% of gold for units from lvl 4-5
0%-40% of gold for units from lvl 6-7
0%-30% of gold for artifacts
In addition there could be added 2 random units form allied castles too choose from when building an army. One form lvl 1-4 and one form lvl 5-7.
I was thinking about additional rule. You can buy ONE artifact from outside the pile which is available to you but you pay for it double cost. This would allow doing more specified heroes such as warlock with slippers or necromancer with +1 damage arifact.
Racial skills such as artificer could look like this.
Artificer. After choosing armies you can create artifacts for your creatures, no resources required.
basic artificer you can make 3*lvl 1 artifacts
advanced artificer you can make 3*lvl 1 + 2*lvl 2 artifacts
expert artificer you can make 3*lvl 1 + 2*lvl 2 + 1*lvl 3 artifact
Beside bonus to retaliation training would add some gold.
basic training increases you total gold amount by 5%
advanced training increases you total gold amount by 10%
expert training increases you total gold amount by 15%
Necromancy could decrease cost of random units from necro army.
basic necromancy: decreases 1 units cost by x%
basic necromancy: decreases 1 units cost by x% and second units cost by y%
basic necromancy: decreases 1 units cost by x% and second units cost by y% and third units cost by z%
Skills like estate resourcefulness could affect total gold and prices of artifacts and units.
Recruitment could change % of party formation restrictions
Logistics may be turned into tactical skill , for example :
basic logistics: starting atb is increased by 0.03
advandced logistics: starting atb is increased by 0.06
expert logistics: starting atb is increased by 0.09
Scouting may let you deploy your troops after opponent deploys his (or just few of them) and you can see his troops while deploying yours.
Pathfinding allows you to remove one obstacle from battlefield after troops are deployed and became visible.
Diplomacy reduces cost of troops from allied castles
All numbers can be changed ofc.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted April 27, 2007 01:25 PM |
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Wow, I love this way of implementing the various skills! That is really interesting because abilities that would normally be wasted in Duel Mode (like Estates) suddenly can come handy. And the implementation of the racials also sound like something that would fit in very well!
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What will happen now?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 27, 2007 02:27 PM |
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+qp for feluniozbunio plz.
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