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| Thread: Anyone interested in having HOMM3 + Wog as a Party based CRPG? | |
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Arkas
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 17, 2007 02:21 AM |
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Anyone interested in having HOMM3 + Wog as a Party based CRPG?
I'm in the middle of using WOG to turn HOMM3 into a party based RPG. I've posted some details over at the round table: http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=154809#154809
I wanted to jump over here to see how much interest there would be in something like this.
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted June 17, 2007 02:24 AM |
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Wouldn't it be easier to do that with Might and Magic?
It sounds like a good idea, good luck!
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Arkas
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 17, 2007 02:29 AM |
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Edited by Arkas at 04:51, 17 Jun 2007.
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Um... Might and Magic is *already* an RPG. I could do it with NWN too while we're at it. What's the point in that?
Edit: And thanks
Edit2: I decided on a more informative answer to "Why not Might and Magic" -
Most RPG's, even the ones with extensive scripting are very limited. Limted by the game engines hard coded system. Things like Max level, the way certain characters can have spells and other characters can't. You can design elaborate worlds with awsome quests and breathtaking graphics, but you still can't make your theif gain 4 1st level spells per day. Not to mention, that 1000's of people will be doing the exact same thing you're doing with the exact same limitations. Occasionally someone clever will find a way around a certain limitation, but most of them continue to exist.
Now, for what I'm doing, HOMM3 definitely has it's own limits. Wog broke a lot of them. Most of the limits left have nothing to do with an RPG, and the scripting is very powerful. With the scripting, I can control just about everything I want to in my RPG. I'm stuck with a hero that can't move on the battlefield, and that's about my only limitation. I can live with that. I can't add spells to the spellbook, but I can create my OWN spellbook and create any spell I want to put in it. I can add/change and modify the monsters, give them any ability within HOMM3 and make up my own abilities when I run out of the hard-coded ones.
Not to mention, there is a certain satisfaction in creating a mod of one genre out of a game of another genre. Look at all the Starcraft RPG maps. I guess the next best thing I can think of to doing it in HOMM3, would be to use something like Torque (I already have a license) or Byond which is free. But then I'd have to create a bunch of graphics and HOMM3+WOG already has them.
And I like the game
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Tolberti
Hired Hero
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posted June 17, 2007 01:50 PM |
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It would be really nice =) keep working and if You'll need any help,just ask for it It would be nice to help You =)
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Arkas
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 18, 2007 12:01 AM |
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Thanks Tolberti,
I still have a lot of systems to script. The main thing I would need help with, is making my new tileset graphics better. There's really no need to change/add new creatures, but I would if someone else was doing the art
Otherwise, I should have something ready for a few people to start testing in a month or so.
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T2_2112
Supreme Hero
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posted June 18, 2007 12:48 AM |
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Can i become a tester ? I like u ideas , this will make H3 stay with us longer
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Arkas
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 18, 2007 01:15 AM |
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Well, I've already modified the H3Sprite.lod file, which is now about 170mb. If I distribute it before wog 3.59 is released I have to distribute it with the full 170mb LOD file, + the two-level xtra-large sized map, and any script files and interface graphics neccessary.
When 3.59 comes out, I can just include the DEF files instead of the entire LOD file. So, that's something to take into consideration if you're gonna volunteer for testing.
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T2_2112
Supreme Hero
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posted June 18, 2007 02:04 AM |
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170+ MB is OK for me , but can u up to some free host site other than Megaupload or RapidShare , i have problem with them
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Asheron
Famous Hero
Ancient
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posted June 25, 2007 03:40 AM |
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It is a interesting idea...Can you show what you did so far?
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted June 25, 2007 05:18 AM |
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Wait, would it be just RPG, or MMO?
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Arkas
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 26, 2007 01:46 AM |
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I posted some screenshots and elaborated a bit over at Celestial Heavens, thread is linked in the first post.
MMO would not happen. I guess it could be turned into a multi-player RPG, but with some WOG functions not working correctly and the inability to group together with the other players, I don't see the point.
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Arkas
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 01, 2008 12:43 AM |
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Just a status update for those who do not check over at celestial heavens...
Status Update:
Tales of Erathia: Jester Average MisAdventure! (Working Title)
This is essentially a Mod of a Mod, I've used ERM Scripting to change HOMMIII with WOG as much as possible into a CRPG.
Sorry this has taken so long, it's almost a year now in the making, but it's all been done on my own (aside from some ripped art and the default WOG scripts I used for reference, thanks will definitely be given where due on those!). I'm guessing I have at least another 4-6 months of work to do before I can release a beta. Anyway, here is where I am at on various portions of the Mod:
- DEF Replacement - 100% DONE
- Starting town - 90%
- Storyline - 90%
- "Engine" Scripting 70%
- Map Scripting 20% (Starting town is not even 1/5th of the map)
- Main Quest plot - 80%
- Graphics Work - 60%
Breakdown:
DEF Replacement -
This is completely done so far as I don't *NEED* to replace anymore graphics. I'd definitely like to improve on some of them, and I could use some more variety for my special purpose graphics, and interior tileset.
The starting town -
This is fully mapped and mostly scripted, each building has an interior, Standard generic NPC's are there and scripted, Some of the starting point for the main quest is scripted. The majority of what is left, is fleshing out some of the engine scripting and applying what is needed to finish this town after that.
Once it's been play-tested extensively, the rest of the map can be built based on the story-line.
Storyline -
It's a storyline, it will probably not be 100% complete until I have a finished product, I keep re-writing sections of it because I get a good idea or a better idea, and I keep adding to it. It's looking good though, and I'm very happy with it. This btw has taken longer than anything else so far.
"Engine" Scripting -
Essentially, I've used WOG's ERM scripting to turn HOMMIII into an RPG, the core systems which are scripted make up what I am calling the "Engine". I'm trying to make it portable as much as possible to make future sequels (if there are going to be any) much easier and require a lot less scripting. The engine includes scripts for the following features:
- Player Character creation and advancement: Considering that this "Mod of a Mod" will not really play very much like your typical HOMMIII game, alot of changes have been made to creating your avatar, and how your Hero advances through levels.
- Random Encounters: Fighting other towns, heroes and random monsters spawning on the map is not going to happen, instead, Random encounters are generated outside of towns ala the old Computer RPG's/Console RPG's. Details on the random battle generator have already been posted, and it's currently finished. I may have to tweak it for balance purposes, but functionally, it's done. It picks 1-2 level appropriate mobs to fight and has a chance of adding a few +1/-1 level mobs from the same group (usually town or just logical grouping). At the end of combat, experience is awarded and the possibility of treasure as well.
- Henchmen Script or "Party Characters": As stated earlier, I've taken the henchman script and very heavily modified it. These characters have a different method of leveling up, can gain stack levels (although they do not gain stack experience) the stack experience bonuses come at pre-specified levels. Each Party Character has an initiate classification and a veteran (upgraded) classification. Their stats are not just adjusted as they go up in levels, they also gain attribute points and skill points which they can use to purchase additional abilities and improve their stats. They can even equip items to improve their stats. Aside from finishing up scripting on some of the special abilities, the henchman system is complete.
- Random Quest generator: This was a tough script to get working the way I wanted. There are still quite a few things I would change. The toughest part, was working without arrays. I've got all of the quest-types covered, killing certain NPC spawns, exploring random caves, Fed-Ex missions. It's essentially unlimited. There are a few glitches, and it needs a lot of tweaking, I still want to increase the variety so every 10th quest doesn't sound the same, etc... But it is functional, and I'm extremely happy for that.
- Dialog system: At first, I had all Dialog pre-scripted, meaning it was telling a story and the player had no part in it except to click the "NEXT" button. Now I have a FULLY FUNCTIONAL branching dialog system with multiple player responses all due to the lack of a lot of sleep. I really hate when Ideas approach me at 2am, because then, sleep is just not possible and the rest of my day sucks rotten eggs. In this case, however, it turned out rather nicely, and I'm extremely excited about it. How could I have possibly been working on an RPG and not considered creating a dialog system? At anyrate, there are a number of improvements from the original functional version that I need to make, better variable usage because I am running out of vars, and the system isn't really portable. I need to strip it down to subfunctions, as it stands, most of it is conversation based, meaning alot of the core system gets duplicated for each conversation, and I don't want that. I also need to incorporate this into my Quest system, but as it stands right now, it's working and I like it, I'm already just about done designing version 2, and it's even better and allows for alot more flexibility, and especially, it allows:
- Alignment System: That's right folks, you can play good or evil, and switch midgame if you want (with some penalties still being designed at this point). With the updates to the new dialog system, quest-lines will differentiate, dialog will differentiate, and some skills may differentiate between characters of different Alignments. It will simply be Good-Neutral-Evil though, and not lawful-nuetral-chaotic. The defualt alignment is chosen during character creation and can change through side-quests only. The main plot line will shift, but only after your alignment begins to shift. Alignment is on a 100pt scale, and some actions will shift it more than others. Even dialog choices can have an effect on Alignment.
- Stack Experience System: Because of the way henchmen are handled, they can gain stack experience and benefit from the bonuses at different levels, but the information is ONLY available while they are in combat by default, the reason, is that stack experience info is available via a right-click troop portrait method, and outside of combat, the henchmen don't REALLY exist. To work around this, I've had to write scripts to keep track of Stack Experience and interface with the Henchmen script, but it is at least functional now, the Stack Experience bonuses are now available through the normal Henchmen interface.
- Building Interior system: The inside of buildings is built on the fly via scripting, and for my proof of concept map, I spent a lot of time sending coordinates for map object placement, etc... And copy/pasting alot of code. Now, what I have done, is created a system of functions that I can pass values to, and those functions will build my interior rooms. With this system in place, not only can I have pre-set floorplans to make the rest of the map much easier to script, it allows for the following system:
- Random dungeon/cave generator: This script will generate a random dungeon or cave (almost, it takes preset "rooms" and places them in a logical order). The cave is complete with monsters, a boss, and scripted traps/treasures. This is one thing I am trying to integrate into my Quest system right now, and I will be re-writing my random encounter generator to accomodate specifically for this script.
That's about it for the "Engine" Scripting. It has taken an awful lot of work, and I'm sure I could have done many things better, but it's functional and I can tweak as I go.
-Map Scripting:
This encompasses scripting building interiors, hooking the engine scripts to relevant NPC's, Setting up Specific Dialog trees, etc... The reason I have this at 20% is because the Starting town, which takes up less than 1/5th of the map is just barely complete. Everything that has been done so far, will definitely speed up the rest of the map scripting though.
- Main Quest Plot:
Seperated from the Storyline simply because I think it's a beast all on its own. It was about 80% done, then I got sidetracked on Alignment ideas then it was about 40% done and now I'm just about finished with it again, back up to 80%. I can't say more than that, I don't want to spoil anything.
- Graphics Work:
As this is definitely my weak point, there is always room for improvement. While I say I'm done replacing DEF's for everything to work fine, I'd still replace more if I had better Art. I'm also missing entirely, any kind of Story Art, etc...
Well, that's it in a Nutshell. I'd post more screens, definitely some shots I WANT to post, but I'm at work right now, and I was up far too late last night. I'll try to get something posted by the end of the week. Anyway, it is all coming together and it was a hell of a lot of work. I'm still accepting help if anyone wants to jump in. I know, that no-one had any time last year, maybe things are different?
I've scrapped 3.59 compatability, even though now, I'm finding out that 3.59 might be a reality in the next year or so, still, if 3.59 comes out, I'll bug-fix, but that's about it. There was too much new stuff in 3.59 that I could use, and it was causing me anxiety trying to cater to both versions. 3.58 is what everyone has right now, so that is what I am going to use.
Also, I've used a *^%(*#P@# TON of variables, most scripts will either break the MOD, or simply not work correctly. Several default WOG options will be used though. Besides, most scripts are modifications to a typical HOMMIII game and wouldn't add anything to this Map anyway.
And... Last but certainly not least... I'm using ALL variables that travel from one map to the next in a campaign. There will be a sequel, storyline and title are already being worked on, map ideas are flowing over, and I can't possibly fit it all into one map, even if 40% of the map is fluid and re-writeable.
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Paulemile
Known Hero
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posted April 01, 2008 10:28 PM |
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Good to hear news from you. I'm still interested in your project to test it. You seem to work hard for it, that's a really good thing. Keep up ! 
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Arkas
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 01, 2008 10:53 PM |
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@Paulemile,
As soon as I've got all the scripting systems completed to my current liking, and the starting town is fully scripted, mapped and working, I'll consider releasing something for a few people to test, while I work on the rest of the map. I'm hoping to be that far within the month.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted April 01, 2008 11:09 PM |
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Nice.
Some screenshots maybe?
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 01, 2008 11:20 PM |
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Sounds great, I kinda wish I had SoD and WoG just to try it...
Kudos for the sustained effort, by the way! 
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Arkas
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 01, 2008 11:26 PM |
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It'll be this weekend before I can work on it, but yeah, I'll get some screenshots up. You can see some I already posted at celestial heavens, but especially the early ones don't show much.
And again, I replaced no creatures or anything, if someone wants to, then I would love to include them, just send me stats and DEFs and let me know which creature is being replaced or name the DEF accordingly. Hint, Hint.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted April 01, 2008 11:44 PM |
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Awesome. Now just give me a link to the screenshots at Celestial Heavens (so that I don't have to dig through the entire site) and I'll be a happy baklava 
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Arkas
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 01, 2008 11:58 PM |
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link was in first post of this thread, but here it is again:
[url=http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=154809#154809]Celestial Heavens Post[/url]
And again, keep in mind, my screenshots can't really show off much except scripted systems and some of them simply cannot be screenshotted. So all of the screenshots there are just showing proof of concept work, and helping to explain how I was doing my scripting.
This weekend, I'll screenshot some dialog menus, A battle or two, and some henchmen GUI's. If I can finish up the Random dungeon generator and get it working, I'll post a couple showing what it's capable of.
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