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| Thread: What I see here... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted July 24, 2007 07:55 AM |
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Wasting your time.
I think you underestimate what your saying
I think it has a positive affect when the mods have their say, and maybe crack down by handing out penalties. But it doesn't last long. After a while it's the SOS again.
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted July 24, 2007 08:03 AM |
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I think I actually know what I'm saying Acu 
And I do know that I am not alone in the feelings I've expressed.
You say leave it alone? That's what I've done for far too long - if there's a crappy mod of the year award I'll hang my head and take it - because too much has been let go here.
And no, I am not saying that I have a -QP studded whip I'm about to pull out on all of you, but I will make more of an effort to actively moderate here.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted July 24, 2007 08:07 AM |
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ok
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted July 24, 2007 08:42 AM |
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Pan, you know you ARE allowed to have a life oustide of HC. If you went running the other direction with your tail between your legs I wouldn't blame you.
Sometimes I think HC has suffered from it's own success. It was a lot easier to follow threads when you read a post and several hours later check back and it's still in the recent 5 list. These days with the sheer volume of posts, it might not even be on the first page of the index after half a day.
I swear I saw the God thread increase by 4-5 pages in one day a while back. That's a hell of a lot of reading for a mod or a poster either one. I don't even attempt to read threads when they are moving that fast.
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setitetart
Known Hero
Reality check....
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posted July 24, 2007 09:31 AM |
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Setitetart - I find nothing wrong in anything you posted... if you read my initial post as somehow saying that the views you've expressed are 'bad' well.. that's just not what I meant.
Thank you for clarifying that. I didn't think you thought I was being bad. LOL
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Personally I was tired of the Rainbow Bright type replies & threads.
I enjoy a good debate & i love watching the action with popcorn in hand
You arent the only one who thinks that Acu.
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It's not a matter of controversial vs non-controversial. And it's not about pretending it's a bright sunny day while we make bunnies and sailing ships from clouds. It's about having some ****ing respect for other people's opinions and beliefs.
but regardless of what you say or how you say it you simply wont get respect, and furthermore people wont give a gnat's behind much less respect your opinions or beliefs because they arent the same. That much I have personally seen.
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People seem to think it's only a violation of the COC if an attack on another person is direct, like "so-and-so is an idiot". But an attack can be just as bad or worse because of the poster's tone and attitude. You can call someone an idiot without using the word idiot. And that's exactly what's been happening in the Other Side. The posts have been extremely condescending in tone.
But see? That's the messed up thing. You don't HAVE the luxury of actually hearing a tone of ANY thing on here...or anywhere on line for that matter unless you have audio capabilites.
You also dont have the luxury of facial expressions or body language.
Sure you can definitely call someone an idiot without outright TYPING it, but why?
Seems a little cowardly to me actually if someone wont come right out and say what they think. Even if it isnt the most stellar thing to say. At least I would KNOW without a doubt, I would ever have to guess if someone thought I was being crappy at all. LOL
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Another thing I see is that too many people insist on having the last word. The threads just seem to go on and on forever. I kind of remember when most threads would just sort of fizzle. Eventually people realized they had presented their side of the debate and had nothing more to add. Going beyond that point becomes an argument, not a debate. It becomes an "I'm right, you're wrong" contest.
I dont see anything wrong with that, not with people wanting to have a say in things or that posts get lengthy. people are compromised of more than a few sentences.
The other thing that I'd like to say is that sometimes if an argument...or lets call it a difference of opinion...comes up...then maybe it might take a few pages of going back and forth and working things out might have to happen. Any difference of opinion rarely if ever just drops off the face of the planet and its a shame that people cant come to a resolution because no one wants to read 30 pages.
Would be "arguments" have started over something taken out of context or a misunderstanding and maybe it takes a few pages to even discover that someone actually read the passage wrong. or maybe it takes that many pages for the person to even ASK if maybe they flubbed something.
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The Other Side has become like a war zone. I read very little of it these days because it's become downright stressful. Why the hell would I want to subject myself to that?
You know yourself best...if you dont like what you are reading, turn the page. That is the great thing about free will, you dont have to force yourself to read anything you dont like.
As my Gramma says "Always a choice, take it or leave it" LOL
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OK, so some people like it better this way. Well some people thrive on controversy and chaos also. Simply disagreeing and having a civil debate is one thing. Mass chaos that affects anyone who dares get near the battle zone is quite another thing.
True that, indeed some people DO thrive on those things. But not all.
Also ones opinion of chaos and controversy may be completely tame to anothers....
I think it IS possible to have a good debate with disagreements, have it get heated but still be civil, but really you cant please everyone all of the time...
I hardly think its become something akin to ground zero. LOL
Pretty contained if you ask me LOL
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"Do you think we should drive a stake through his heart, just in case?"
~ Peter Lorre to Vincent Price at Bela Lugosi's funeral
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 24, 2007 09:35 AM |
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It's not a matter of controversial vs non-controversial. And it's not about pretending it's a bright sunny day while we make bunnies and sailing ships from clouds. It's about having some ****ing respect for other people's opinions and beliefs.
People seem to think it's only a violation of the COC if an attack on another person is direct, like "so-and-so is an idiot". But an attack can be just as bad or worse because of the poster's tone and attitude. You can call someone an idiot without using the word idiot. And that's exactly what's been happening in the Other Side. The posts have been extremely condescending in tone.
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Sometimes I think HC has suffered from it's own success. It was a lot easier to follow threads when you read a post and several hours later check back and it's still in the recent 5 list. These days with the sheer volume of posts, it might not even be on the first page of the index after half a day.
I think these two quotes by Binabik show very precisely where the problems lie. First off, I don't think anybody would bother if it was just all ... what was the fraising ... rainbow coloured ponies? I myself have come a lot here the last week because the Gay thread, which interests me, has been active, and I think that's great.
But I also agree, that many posts and members have crossed the line of what makes this a healthy discussion, and it often develops into a downward spiral where attack triggers counterattack etc.
To return to your original post, Pan, and the point of whether there should be a more "visible" modding of the individual topics - I'd say, ideally, yes. It would be nice to have someone surveying all the posts all the time, sorting those out that were offensive just for being offensive rather than contributing to the debate (and with this, I refer both to those that cross the red line by using certain words, and those that doesn't). Problem is, that such a thing is not possible due to the sheer amount of posts being done here.
I think that in order to achieve "perfect modding" of this forum, where threads sometimes explode extremely fast, Mods would be required to have extremely much online time, which is not possible just for a few people. A larger groups of Mods might releave the stress for the individual, but in order to be realistic, when threads approach the 20 page limit, not to mention 30 or 40 pages, it takes way too much time to read through it all if you enter midways, which in practice means you have to follow the same thread all the way. I suppose one could distribute the longer threads between individuals, but again, it comes down to how much online time people have.
So yes, I do think a quople of QP's could have been handed out in certain thread (I've mostly followed the Gay thread lately, as I said), and I also think a lot of posts could have been deleted/edited and warnings given, but I also have difficulty finding a solution for this forum which ensures a durable, long-term solution that will not wear down the mods completely.
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What will happen now?
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted July 24, 2007 11:03 AM |
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I would love to see everyone acting and responding like he/she would do in REAL LIFE!
Biggest problem of the internet is, nearly everyone thinks he/she is soo cool, soo mature, soo strong, soo....soo....soo...(fill in whatever u like).
Why don't you try to post as if the one who your response is directed to is sitting in front of you face-to-face in a public place?
Even if you would have something bad to say towards this person, would you say it that loud, so everyone near can hear your shouting? Guess not.
Things would run "smoother" and more fair if a little bit more respect is shown, and not too much of this "cyber-behaviour".
This has nothing to do with flower power or anything like that. There is no need to sing and dance all the time. "Tough" discussions are a good thing every now and then. I like that myself....to a specific extent. But there is an imaginary line which should not be crossed.
I know temper is often hard to control, that's why u you should hold your breath for 10 seconds before you respond to an "aggressive" or "offensive" text.....this cools you down and makes your response more civil..
And I have to agree with Alc here, there were a bunch full of posts in the OSM lately, which would deserve a +qp. Maybe after re-reading some of these threads, there will appear some.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted July 24, 2007 04:51 PM |
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You know yourself best...if you dont like what you are reading, turn the page. That is the great thing about free will, you dont have to force yourself to read anything you dont like.
As my Gramma says "Always a choice, take it or leave it" LOL
Exactly, when I posted a particular thread on here I did not send out petitions to see who would approve of it’s content, or whether it interested anyone in particular. I was looking for one person, and if others wanted to join that was fine, but really did not matter to me. I know that I don’t get a lot of QP’s because; well they are not handed out for sarcasm backed up by facts. And that’s ok, because it is really not that important.
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Why don't you try to post as if the one who your response is directed to is sitting in front of you face-to-face in a public place?
Even if you would have something bad to say towards this person, would you say it that loud, so everyone near can hear your shouting? Guess not.
Um, I do post that way, anything that I said in a recent post that was locked was no different then what I would have said to both of them in public. I did not even use swear words. You have to have a stellar imagination one here when writing because the COC is so tight.
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The Other Side has become like a war zone. I read very little of it these days because it's become downright stressful. Why the hell would I want to subject myself to that?
We ask that you don’t stress yourself out, go to a different thread and take a breath. If I have personally caused you stress then I apologize, however ST is right that you have the option to turn the page as well.
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I swear I saw the God thread increase by 4-5 pages in one day a while back. That's a hell of a lot of reading for a mod or a poster either one. I don't even attempt to read threads when they are moving that fast.
IF you read nothing else that have written as a mod please read this. If you really want some advice when it comes to modding here is mine, and I know it probably means **** but that is ok. The above quote is where the problem is. If a mod is going to come into a thread half way into it and start assuming that the troublemaker is lets say, me, then out of respect please read the entire thread as a whole. There was a recent –QP given, by the looks of the thread you would have thought that I deserved it, when in fact it took a mod to go back several pages to find the attacker and award the proper –qp. This could have been avoided by carefully reading the posts.
I would rather see some backup mods on here reading them and keeping up with them everyday, reading through the entire thread instead of jumping to conclusions because it is so time consuming.
So again I apologize if I have caused all this crap, however I will continue to post as see fit and within the COC. This is the only forum I really come to, but please, if there are several people on here that think I should just not post please state so, I can respect that.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted July 24, 2007 05:46 PM |
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Angelito is totally right. Except this part:
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There is no need to sing and dance all the time.
W00t! God knows how fun that is...
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted July 24, 2007 06:12 PM |
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IF you read nothing else that have written as a mod please read this. If you really want some advice when it comes to modding here is mine, and I know it probably means **** but that is ok. The above quote is where the problem is. If a mod is going to come into a thread half way into it and start assuming that the troublemaker is lets say, me, then out of respect please read the entire thread as a whole. There was a recent –QP given, by the looks of the thread you would have thought that I deserved it, when in fact it took a mod to go back several pages to find the attacker and award the proper –qp. This could have been avoided by carefully reading the posts.
Not posting doesn't mean not reading. The fact that it can seem like a lot to read, and that it can be rather unpleasant at times can make the reading go slower - but it does get read.
As for penalties being given when someone thinks they're unfair or whatever the case may be - just bring it up in the Feedback thread. Any time you guys think something is unfair, or maybe you just have a suggestion - you're always welcome to bring it up there. That's what it's for.
We're just human - sometimes I think that members forget that...
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So again I apologize if I have caused all this crap, however I will continue to post as see fit and within the COC. This is the only forum I really come to, but please, if there are several people on here that think I should just not post please state so, I can respect that.
I'm not going to keep repeating that this isn't about any one person. No one has said that you shouldn't post - nor have they said that you are the cause of anything.
The whole point here is that there is finally some new life to this forum - and that's a good thing. I think part of the reason the moderating has been more lenient is that with all the new posters it's nice to see people talking and we don't want to stop it.
However it's been getting a little bit out of control.
There have been too many unchecked CoC violations. I'm not holding anyone accountable for those but myself - I saw them, I let it go - so it's my fault.
What I want to do now is fix my mistakes. I haven't been here - as some of you know, I recently moved, and went away on vacation right after - but I'm back now and i want to try to set things right. I will not be going back and -QPing everything that I feel was a violation. I will be warning people now when they do it again - if after warnings it keeps up - members will be penalized then.
Don't misunderstand me here - I am not saying I wish to start some giant crusade against offenders... that's just about the last thing I want to do - and if I do give a warning and someone thinks its unfair or "too Disney" () I would invite you to talk to me about it. I'm not trying to impose a dictatorship where my way goes - I am trying to find a happy medium where all of our posters feel welcome. (and by all I mean the fluffy bunnies as well as the fork tongued )
Because it seems that the impression here is that I feel 100% negatively towards the OSM now I'll add this:
I think its great that we have activity again - I love the fact that people are sharing who they are again, not with long posts about their life story - but by simply adding their two cents here and there, and engaging in conversation. I like seeing that we have attracted more adults - as well as some great new younger folk - and i like seeing more people posting that have a spine and a passion about their convictions.
I think right now we're at a bit of a crossroads - where the OSm could either become fantastic reading again - or it could go straight down the crapper. I only want to see that we're going in the right direction.
And I don't want anyone to leave.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted July 24, 2007 06:30 PM |
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what pandy said
and yes, i am holding her responsible because i am a prick
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted July 24, 2007 06:57 PM |
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I see a whole lot of yapping and not much else.
Setitetart(emphasis on the tart btw) screaming in one post, "SHUT UP!" kind of suggests she's losing perspective and would do better to take a break from the keyboard. Feel free to kick her off of these boards. She deserves it.
Shadey coming in here and telling everyone(including me) that we don't know wtf we're talking about and that we need to get our facts straight...well...the sharks jumped him so bad peeps started feeling bad for him. They shouldn't. He deserved it. Now that he's done picking fights to establish his name maybe he'll say something of substance. I'd still ban him on gp though.
ViolentFlower(my hot bodacious girl) uh, I love and adore her. She's uh, right all the time, and um, is a paragon of patience and um, virtue.
People who have conservative bents, well, for years many of us have been resentful and frustrated with the way you and your kind frame arguments. It is these dishonest discussions you have framed that cause people who are more moderate to despise you. Your kind is notorious for personal attacks. Don't any of you ever act surprised when it comes back in your direction.
Aculias? Does anything he says ever make sense besides when he's telling me I'm right? Not sure. Feel free to kick him off the boards. He deserves it.
Consis. I'm telling you. Gamerdad had it right.
Binabik There's nothing worse than a reformed hippy. Ban him. Ban him now I say.
Corribus? Empirical evidence has no business in these kinds of rants of ours. You've crossed the line one too many times. Ban him. He deserves it.
DoomForge? You've crossed over too many times from the H5 side of the house. You should be on probation. If Alc can't contain you then I say ban both of you.
Who am I missing?
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Tenaka
Famous Hero
Makes sense
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posted July 24, 2007 07:33 PM |
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Ummmm...me? jk...I hope...
Yeah, there's been a lot of agression here lately...Everyone - Includin me - should simply try to cool down...
A solution to the problem might be to post some warnings every now and then when things start to heaten up, to show that you actually read those threads.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted July 24, 2007 08:45 PM |
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Hmm...
I will let stand my arguments. I will not stand by while a bully attempts ad hominem character assassination. HOWEVER! In concession: I do agree wholeheartedly that the poor wretch Shadey brought it on himself and could have done much more to lessen his caustic delivery, but I meant what I said.
You see this is why I should never be moderator and it is also why people like Pandora (and the other ACTIVE moderators) should be recognized for their good work. She is able to present the objective authority (not altogether in a timely fashion) to the polarized arguments. Being able to withdraw one's self to look at the big picture of following CoC is a requirement she upholds well. Hearing not only her but the other moderators coming to give their considerations is very reassuring because it means people care. People care enough to try and make it a better place for all of us who are ensconsed in our obviously(sic) proven truths. Did you see how she made a choice not to perpetuate the drudgery by comitting to not go back and award penalties? People like me would do exactly that. I'm a contentious bastard. I for one am glad for the leadership we have currently.
The_Gootch,
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ViolentFlower(my hot bodacious girl) uh, I love and adore her. She's uh, right all the time, and um, is a paragon of patience and um, virtue.
Happiness....is just a teardrop away.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted July 24, 2007 09:16 PM |
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Edited by pandora at 21:21, 24 Jul 2007.
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Shadey coming in here and telling everyone(including me) that we don't know wtf we're talking about and that we need to get our facts straight...well...the sharks jumped him so bad peeps started feeling bad for him. They shouldn't. He deserved it. Now that he's done picking fights to establish his name maybe he'll say something of substance. I'd still ban him on gp though.
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People who have conservative bents, well, for years many of us have been resentful and frustrated with the way you and your kind frame arguments. It is these dishonest discussions you have framed that cause people who are more moderate to despise you. Your kind is notorious for personal attacks. Don't any of you ever act surprised when it comes back in your direction.
Do you think I made this thread in defense of this?
A big part of the point in what I was saying is that we mods should have to accept responsibilty for letting it get to where it is. Had we handled it properly it never woul dhave gotten to this - a lot of the people who said things that were against the CoC wouldn't have need say them...
I should have titled this one
"you're so vain, you probably think this thread is about you"
A lot of people who have been responding to me in IM seem to think I've directed this whole thing at them for something they said.
That's not it - its not any one thing, it's the whole. Basically a chain reaction starts when certain types of people start blasting off on their own crusades, and then everyone gets out of hand.
I saw it happening and I didn't stop it - now I am saying that I'm sorry for that, and I will try to stop it in the future.
It would be much easier though, if we all worked at making this place together.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Shadey
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 24, 2007 09:30 PM |
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First, I apologize for comming off as caustic and for any personal attacks I made.
It's difficult for me to not get defensive when individuals make direct attacks against whole groups of people I do or do not associate with, or make terrible claims such as my pastor (who is a very good man) drops his trousers in front of little kids.
I would like to debate and discuss topics without having to worry about my opinions on an internet forums site somehow correlating to how I live my life after I leave the computer.
For the record I didn't tell anyone they didnt' know what they were talking about untill people made claims that I have no right to interpret the Bible.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted July 24, 2007 09:31 PM |
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@Gootch
You pick on me?? I've only posted like 10 times in 4 months here. Mostly because you people are way too serious and too high strung for what should be considered healthy.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted July 24, 2007 09:49 PM |
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Um, the Gootch has been known to use sarcasm before.
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted July 24, 2007 09:50 PM |
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Shut UP!
How often has he done this???
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted July 24, 2007 09:52 PM |
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