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| Thread: More creature abilities in H6 |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Miru
Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
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posted September 27, 2007 11:39 PM |
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Poll Question:
More creature abilities in H6
Creature abilities, like shooter and double strike are great. They add strategy, make HoMM require thought. But there should be more.
Every creature should have a couple of abilities that make sense to the unit, rather than fitting units to abilities, as with shooter and succubus, in order to balance the teams there should be variance.
Example:
Their capes look weird, because they drag so far on the ground. When I first saw this two years ago, I thought their capes looked cool but were poor functionality wise. Until I found out what they were for. Their capes smooth out their tracks on th sand behind them so when they walk in single file you cant tell how many there are. I think Mages should have the ability 'unless you have scouting you can't see how many are in an enemy party'.
Rather than finding explanations on why units do things, let them do what they would, with as much detail as possible, then fit them to the towns.
Please avoid voting until a few posts have been made.
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I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted September 28, 2007 08:25 AM |
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should be more abilities, a lot more. but not affecting out of combat. i was thinking more activated abilities (2-3) for each unit would be nice. of course , if you did that it would have to be in homm6 because youd want to cut down on the massive number of units there are now
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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NIght_Heaven
Adventuring Hero
Lonely star in heaven dream
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posted September 28, 2007 01:41 PM |
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More abilityes will be very nice. I have voted first option. I love the mages example.
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lfernandes
Hired Hero
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posted September 28, 2007 03:12 PM |
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In my opinion, some should affect out of combat, just like the thieves in H4, for example... 
A magi or a druid could be able to cast adventure spells as well, depending on how many of them are on the stack, for exemple...
But I do not agree that the game should have too many abilities... only a few more would do...
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted September 29, 2007 01:27 PM |
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Well creatures should definitely have more abilities, but the one about magi being invisible cause they've got long capes is sort of weird. Besides, flying units could see them anyway.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 29, 2007 04:56 PM |
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@Daystar
King's Bounty rules!
It really was a nice feature.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted September 29, 2007 06:16 PM |
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Your idea was present in the original King's Bounty. Armies could fly if comprised of flying creatures.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 29, 2007 09:27 PM |
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Ok, since I was dragged into this thread by that KB feature I might as well say my piece.
Heroes 5 have probably brought more abilities than all the other HoMM games combined (especially when TotE comes out). These abilities made most of the units absolutely unique, which has never been done before. Wishing for more seems a bit of an overkill to me.
As for matching abilities to the appearance of the units. I have always been against giving any gameplay importance to graphics in strategy games, since graphics are there only to make the game more pleasant to the eye, not to enhance gameplay.
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted October 03, 2007 05:16 PM |
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Too many abilities will make the game overly complex. If anything, the abilities should be arranged in a way that two units never have the same special abilities. I'm not talking about attributes like shooter, flying, undead and the like, I'm talking about abilities like Bash (present on both Squires and Concripts).
TotE unfortunately makes things worse in that aspects. 3 units with poison, 2 with bravery, 2 with assault, 2 with cleave...
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 03, 2007 06:26 PM |
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Quote:
If anything, the abilities should be arranged in a way that two units never have the same special abilities.
I don't think there's any problem with several creatures having the same abilities - after all, how many creatures have the Flying ability, the Ranged ability, or the Caster ability? 
Of course, there's a distinction - some abilities are "general" abilities, like Flying, No Retaliation and Ranged, and some are very creature specific, like Drain Mana, Battle Dive and Whip Lash. I think abilities that are strongly tied to the nature of the specific creature should not be used more than ones, whereas abilities of a more general character can be used on more units. Poison and Fire Breath are good examples of abilities that can be used several times (as long as it's not overdone).
Then there are some abilities in the middle area, like Cleave, Assault, Double Strike etc., that essentially provide alternatives to each other. I think it's ok to use some of these more than ones to do a bit of variation.
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What will happen now?
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted October 03, 2007 07:41 PM |
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You know, the system of a unique special ability for almost every creature is a new thing of H5.
H1, H2 and H3 were fun and successful without it. When I play them, I don't really feel a special ability for every creature is needed.
When every creature has its own special ability (for the Orcs, more than 1), we get to a situation that sometimes, the player who wins is the one who remembers every special ability, and not always the better tactical player.
It happens often that a player forgets to consider an ability of a certain creature, what makes him get to worse results.
H1, H2 and H3 were better on the aspect, weren't they? A player almost always won becuase s/he is a better tactical player, not becuase he forgot a detail about the creatures.
In my opinion, it should be in the middle. Not all the creatures should have their own unique special abilities, but most of them.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted October 03, 2007 09:01 PM |
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@GL
I don't get it. First you say that H5 confuses you with so much abilities and then you say: "Not all the creatures should have their own unique special abilities, but most of them.", which is exactly what happens in H5.
Anyway, I agree with alc (who would've thought ). With TotE, even excluding neutrals and unupgraded units (who usually pass on their abilities to the upgrades), we have almost 100 units. So, if 5 units have the same ability, it's about 5% of the creatures and I don't think it really reduces the creature's uniqueness (did I just invent a new word? ).
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted October 03, 2007 09:54 PM |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 03, 2007 10:53 PM |
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Quote:
Anyway, I agree with alc.
You were always a wise man Geny. 
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What will happen now?
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted October 03, 2007 11:43 PM |
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Quote:
@GL
I don't get it. First you say that H5 confuses you with so much abilities and then you say: "Not all the creatures should have their own unique special abilities, but most of them.", which is exactly what happens in H5.
I meant that about 55-60% of the creatures should have their own special abilities. More than that will be just too much.
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted October 04, 2007 01:15 AM |
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In H5 there are many creature abilities but more would always be welcome  In H3 there are many creatures whit no specials at all until WoG! WoG creatures have more than enough available abilities and i liked that. I don't want creature experience in next Heroes but maybe high leveled/skilled hero could teach new skills to creatures. I like the Barbarians new Blood Rage racial when base creatures strength/abilities can be boosted. Also Haven special training could upgrade base creature rather than making it next tier creature.
Casters in H5 where nice addition to the game but i think spell casters should also benefit from large stacks rather than splitting. Their magic damage is so high at the beginning that it's understandable that Casters become weaker in higher numbers. But what if... Small group of casters could cast Ice Bolt on enemy AND larger stack could cast Circle of Winter or big Seraphs could cast Expert Righteous Might etc.
I would prefer creatures should have many abilities, but be limited to combat abilities. I just don't like scouting or pathfinding abilities on creatures. (Few exceptions of course like Magies should still reduce the heroes mana cost on adventure map and native terrains etc.)
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Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 04, 2007 01:21 AM |
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Quote:
You know, the system of a unique special ability for almost every creature is a new thing of H5.
Actually, it was introduced in H4.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted October 04, 2007 03:06 PM |
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Quote:
Casters in H5 where nice addition to the game but i think spell casters should also benefit from large stacks rather than splitting. Their magic damage is so high at the beginning that it's understandable that Casters become weaker in higher numbers. But what if... Small group of casters could cast Ice Bolt on enemy AND larger stack could cast Circle of Winter or big Seraphs could cast Expert Righteous Might etc.
Thats a general problem with spells in H5. It makes sense that a spell has a certain base effect and then grows with spellpower for a hero, but the same system on creatures is just bad design, particularly for destructive spells.
The spells effect should entirely base on stack size, and scale better in return. The same issue applies to Deleb's fireball ballista.
You have a level one hero that can't even cast fireball yet(you need basic destruction and a level 3 mage guild), and has just enough knowledge for two castings for it, and yet, her ballista shells out two fireballs per turn. If the damage was something like 2 damage per hero level, it would be pretty fine.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted October 12, 2007 04:21 AM |
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I'm just glad that drain life was removed from fallen angels... it made vampires look too ordinary.
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted October 12, 2007 04:38 AM |
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Reflecting on it, Id like 5-7 highly specialized factions with lots of abilities and possibly unit experience too. If its 11 factions then only 1-3 unique skills per unit is fine. but if you go with only a few factions that all have specializations its good
and some should indeed affect out of combat. Haven for example should be able to set up fortifications with its tier 7 . Necro should be able to make a area plagued and damage units turning them into corpses a necromancer can raise (plague cloud should be casted by a tier 6) etc.
id have a titans setting up a cloud that makes it so the enemy cant see the area for several turns
black dragons soaring overhead and able to act as caravans for the hero ferrying troops between him and dwellings
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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