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| Thread: NASA? Miltary? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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baklava
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posted November 17, 2007 02:24 PM |
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Quote:
And did you ever consider that it might be a solution if people that cannot sustain children would not breed like rabbits?
Well then we should try to prevent overbreeding, not kill people. There is always a rational and fair solution to everything, it's just that people are usually too unorganized (or just dumb) to make it work.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted November 17, 2007 02:53 PM |
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Quote:
What about money spent on, say, S&M sex toys. Or trading card games. Or scented toilet paper. Or junk food. Or any other pointless symbol of today's modern consumerist society.
Think about every single pointless industry in this world and add up their combined wealth, and suddenly government spending on the further research of science doesn't seem so bad.
titaniumalloy you must not understand the fundamentals of moneymaking
"
Why you do it: You live in possibly the most pampered, consumerist society since the Roman Empire.
Your punishment in Hell will be: You'll be boiled alive in oil. Bear in mind that it's the finest, most luxurious boiling oil that money can buy, but it's still boiling."
Notice also that companies are sneaky...
Many fast food companies are members of a think tank that states "having unhealthy food does not increase obesity rates"...
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frostwolf
Famous Hero
livin' in a bottle of vodka
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posted November 17, 2007 04:08 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
And did you ever consider that it might be a solution if people that cannot sustain children would not breed like rabbits?
Well then we should try to prevent overbreeding, not kill people. There is always a rational and fair solution to everything, it's just that people are usually too unorganized (or just dumb) to make it work.
And doesn't being unorganized or dumb have anything to do with the poverty of a country? Why should we then take money from research and "help" them?
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What can you expect from a world where everybody lives because they're too afraid to commit suicide?
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted November 17, 2007 05:11 PM |
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Edited by Consis at 17:13, 17 Nov 2007.
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Hmm
What if we play with the letters in "mamgaeter"?
1. Game eater M
2. Team Gater M
3. Magma Teer
4. E-Tag Mamer
5. Gamete Ram
6. Rage Mage (tm)*
7. Greater Mam
8. Mega Mater
9. Meat Marge
10. Gram Mertae
11. Reemmagta
12. Ear Agtamem
13. Art Game Em
14. Gram Mate E
15. Gamma Tree
I've highlighted the 3 most likely usable words from my little word game.
Edit: Uh oh....I just noticed I left out an "A" LoLz Oops! 
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted November 17, 2007 05:21 PM |
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Its important to get NASA money as the world is already on an unbreakable spiral of armeggedon. Hell it was like that when the world started and people expected the sun to explode. In short in a way only science can possibly save us or more specifically finding other worlds that it may be possible to go to.
Admittedly now we need to deal with problems on earth. But slacking off with science will not help people survive. 600 dollars were poured into africa if i remember correctly. Most developing countries can only dream of that. And the improvement rate is next to none
If you want to help poverty and being underfed africas attitude has to change and it has to try and help develop itself. Money is not going to help it start, only to speed it up once the process has begun
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted November 18, 2007 02:39 AM |
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Frostwolf we have the resources on this planet to sustain a population of a magnitude god only knows how much bigger than what we have now.
It's not the population that's the problem, but rather that the limiting factor is the economy, and how efficiently these people can be provided for.
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John says to live above hell.
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted November 18, 2007 05:58 AM |
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Quote:
What if we play with the letters in "mamgaeter"?
1. Game eater M
2. Team Gater M
3. Magma Teer
4. E-Tag Mamer
5. Gamete Ram
6. Rage Mage (tm)*
7. Greater Mam
8. Mega Mater
9. Meat Marge
10. Gram Mertae
11. Reemmagta
12. Ear Agtamem
13. Art Game Em
14. Gram Mate E
15. Gamma Tree
I've highlighted the 3 most likely usable words from my little word game.
Edit: Uh oh....I just noticed I left out an "A" LoLz Oops!
you spelt my name wrong...
either way we need funding in nasa and military should collaspe and we put previous funding into the UN k. cuz i think thats how it should go....
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Mytical
Responsible
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Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 18, 2007 06:32 AM |
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I am sure the future wannabe dictators would love that. Until mankind somehow gets past wars and conflicts (which will probably happen in about a billion years or so) the military is a neccessary evil. Though it should be used for defense only mind you. Also, a lot of our soldiers should be learning unconvientional warfare (Guerilla tactics). Maybe that would aid us in countering those tactics.
If you want to change the world, there is a simple way. A random Kindness (ARK) or random acts of kindness. If enough people did this, slowly the world would change. It'd be hard, it would take a long time, but the world would change. Money is a crutch. People are always talking about giving money. What about time? How many hours have you given to help those in need? Somebody like Bill Gates can write a check for a billion dollars, so what? It will make things better for awhile, for a FEW people, and then things will be right back to where they started or even worse. Maybe 2-3 years tops. If people donated a few hours a week for the rest of their lives.. yeah only a few people would benifit, but it could go on for decades. Now think what could be done if 10 million people volunteered a few hours a week. 100 million? Wouldn't that be more valuable then that billion dollars?
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Message received.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted November 18, 2007 06:59 AM |
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Your logic is biased, because you scale the hours up to millions but you don't scale the cash up 
Bill Gates owns a charity which donates I don't even know how much money. That is worth a lot more than him actually going down there and helping out. He wouldn't be much help, he'd just be the same as any of the other people he would be helping out. He'd also need food and water, right? Oh wait no he can afford those things, so he can pay for them himself. While he's there, why doesn't he pay for food and water for the whole village?
See, it comes down to money.
Money is the limiting factor. In a capitalist world things don't get done without money, and that's not an attack on human morality. Even if everyone was willing, we wouldn't be able to allocate the resources without money.
So yeah, his donations are worth alot.
And the US government spends almost 650 billion per annum on military, the statistics are on the page before. This is almost half of the entire world. Yet conflicts are worldwide... why is the US so much higher? Obviously the country is rich, but it seems to me like it would be far better off for the country if they stopped focusing on paranoia and invasions and spent more money on sustaining the economy to stop the US sliding off the world power table in a few decades.
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John says to live above hell.
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Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
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posted November 19, 2007 09:43 PM |
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Edited by Orfinn at 21:44, 19 Nov 2007.
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Only the NASA needs the money (besides poor people). I want to see humanity get off this planet and habitate etc other planets/moons ASAP! My dream is to at least see people get a foundation on Mars before I leave this world (dead), that is my dream, my vision, my hope to see! And if that should be possible, we have to put an end to the time, money and resource consuming wars Which is easier said than done, though at least the conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan should be stabilized first and foremost.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted November 20, 2007 07:08 AM |
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Why Mars? Mars is boring. Getting there would be nothing but an achievement to say "yeah, done that", like the moon.
Think bigger
We need faster than light travel first though... get to work you lazy metaphysicists!
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John says to live above hell.
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Wolfman
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posted November 20, 2007 05:50 PM |
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted November 20, 2007 07:55 PM |
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Quote:
Only the NASA needs the money (besides poor people). I want to see humanity get off this planet and habitate etc other planets/moons ASAP! My dream is to at least see people get a foundation on Mars before I leave this world (dead), that is my dream, my vision, my hope to see! And if that should be possible, we have to put an end to the time, money and resource consuming wars Which is easier said than done, though at least the conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan should be stabilized first and foremost.
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Why Mars? Mars is boring. Getting there would be nothing but an achievement to say "yeah, done that", like the moon.
Think bigger
Since we "raped" Earth (someone said it before), then we throw "her" to garbage after we finished with "her" and start to "rape" other planets? maybe even the whole galaxy? what do you mean by think 'bigger'? if Mars is not good enough, we seriously need another planet like Earth which to pollute, rage wars on it, consume all it's resources and finally destroy it, right? doesn't a virus do the same to it's "host" hmmm?
or perhaps we need to think even more 'bigger' and start to enslave Aliens or other life forms (like we did with black people a while back), not necessarily out of necessity but out of fun (as that's where humans are more proficient), or start to "rape" them as well or destroy their homes (obviously if they're not a threat because humans only learn by force  )? Perhaps invade their homes, take all their resources, etc.. you know what else. How'd you feel if Aliens came and wacked us to shreds and tortured us?
Don't get me wrong, space exploration is good, very nice knowledge. space colonization, especially if we're going to get "bigger", is bad.  It's like a spreading virus that never stops and spreads at a geometric rate  (and this is from an objective point of view).
most people just always think in subjective terms of themselves and never of their environment or other species. haven't we had enough with Earth? no, of course not, we want more and more "girls" to "rape", one just isn't enough. Unfortunately there's no "law" or "court" in the Universe to prevent that (or none that we're/I'm aware of); but even so it would mean that we only learn by force which is a bad thing for such an 'intelligent' species we like to call us
and there's no such thing as humans doing the 'colonization' peacefully without distrubing the environment. Look what we've done to Earth and see practically why.
Military falls in the same hole.
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executor
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Otherworldly Ambassador
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posted November 20, 2007 08:00 PM |
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Edited by executor at 20:24, 20 Nov 2007.
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@ the Death
Quote:
How'd you feel if Aliens came and wacked us to shreds and tortured us?
That is unfortunaltelly, likely.
Unless we come to them first  (Just my black humour).
And why to expand? For progress, if nothing else. More people -> more ideas -> more knowledge. And Earth is far more limited in this field than a whole galaxy .
Unification with an alien species would greatly add to progress, doubtlessly.
And of course there are things we can research only being there, not through interstellar distances.
Of course, there would be some 'byproducts': separation from Earth -> interstellar wars (and/or local); ecosystem degradation to make it similar to ours; some more for sure.
Just hope there would be as little of these as possible.
Quote:
Why Mars? Mars is boring. Getting there would be nothing but an achievement to say "yeah, done that", like the moon.
Think bigger
We need faster than light travel first though... get to work you lazy metaphysicists!
Fully agree with this  .
Slightly off-topic follows...
I would like to add that to successfully colonize Mars, or just anything in this system(save venus, but there's acidic atmosphere... oh sh*t...), we need artificial gravity avaible on planet surface. Why?
Because natural gravity on Mars is ~0,25 earthly, and on other solid planets/moons/dwarf planets (save Venus) is even less. Until people won't live there long, that would not be a problem. But if we want to colonize, then there will be people born there, and living their life there. During their childhood (possibly even pregnancy) their bodies will not have proper conditions to grow and function - they will encounter problems with blood pressure, heart, breathing, skeleton and muscles, when they leave for another bedy with greater gravity, or even live where they were born.
Unless we have such artificial gravity, we can maintain only scientific research on other worlds in this system.
Even if we had, Earth is the only planet in this system that is within the habitable zone, i.e. area around star where the radiation gives sufficient temperature for water to form bodies of liquid water on solid surfaces.
This means there will be no walks 'outdoors', except in environment suits, simply due to temperature, not to mention atmospheric differences...
Up till date, there are known 2 extrasolar planets that have circular orbits within their stars' habitable zones, so they fulfill this criterium for colonization.
One of them is 4th (from star) planet in 55 Cancri system (41 LY away). Unfortunatelly, it's probably a gas giant similar to a bit smaller Saturn (assuming by mass - ~1/2 Saturn's), so itself it cannot be inhabitted, unless in floating cities (see StarWars ep. V). It is also unlikely that it has earth(or even mars)-sized moons, as it is not massive enough.
The second is a planet in Gliese 581 system (20 LY away). It's mass is estimated at ~5x Earth's, yet the range of error is rather big. It is likely terrestial(i.e. rocky). Alas, it's gravity(if it has similar composition to Earth) is twice as high as ours, thus disabling any colonization, at least until we'll invent negative gravity in floors . In addition, it is very close to it's star (a red dwarf), that means it is more than likely to be tidally 'locked' to its star(that means one of planet's sides is constantly pointed towards its star, the planet does not rotate around its axis).
A personal note: one of my greatest dreams is to visit another world, be it Moon or Mars, if nothing else is possible. However, if I was give the choice to be first(or one of first) humans to go to another stellar system (even if I was never to return), I would say yes without hesitation .
Not only for scientific reasons, but also for some sort of bliss, loosely connected with 'where no one has gone before' quote .
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Understanding is a three-edged sword.
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baklava
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posted November 20, 2007 09:42 PM |
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And doesn't being unorganized or dumb have anything to do with the poverty of a country?
No, no it doesn't. The Soviet Union was quite organized, yet you see how its people lived. Romanian people aren't dumb. Etcetera.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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executor
Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
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posted November 20, 2007 10:24 PM |
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^^
Commies were resistant to economic and social science(but not social engineering ), so they can be descibed as semi-dumb.
Unforunatelly my country, Poland, as Romania or Bugaria, was affected by this illness too .
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Understanding is a three-edged sword.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted November 21, 2007 06:32 AM |
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Since we "raped" Earth (someone said it before), then we throw "her" to garbage after we finished with "her" and start to "rape" other planets? maybe even the whole galaxy? what do you mean by think 'bigger'? if Mars is not good enough, we seriously need another planet like Earth which to pollute, rage wars on it, consume all it's resources and finally destroy it, right? doesn't a virus do the same to it's "host" hmmm?
Don't get me wrong, space exploration is good, very nice knowledge. space colonization, especially if we're going to get "bigger", is bad. It's like a spreading virus that never stops and spreads at a geometric rate (and this is from an objective point of view).
and there's no such thing as humans doing the 'colonization' peacefully without distrubing the environment. Look what we've done to Earth and see practically why.
Yes, that's why we need to destroy viruses too!
But seriously, there would be cleaner energy and the previous knowledge of our first attempt at habitation to help us. Don't you believe in second chances
If we do end up raping it well then such is life.
Eventually Sol will go out in a bang and we'll need another place to live (of course it is far more likely that we will go extinct of our own doing before then)
And what's wrong with the human race spreading throughout the galaxy? Suppose we do destroy some desolate uninhabited world (inevitably as a result of colonization), would it be better if it were never ever found and left alone? Whilst a very romantic point of view it just isn't practical. And if it is inhabited, or we do meet another sentient life form (however unlikely that may be), then hopefully we will keep our good manners and not destroy them... but either way, ignoring them isn't a more preferable option.
Or maybe Mankind should just be in a perpetual state of being stuck in the 'sin bin'... sulking in the corner with the Dunce Cap
As for inhabiting the worlds... It's kind of like if some archaeologists discovered an underground ancient sealed box containing a long lost statue created by a long-dead famous artist. The box is trapped in several ways: opening it would set off a bomb; it contained a gas, which if exposed to oxygen, would explode, and other ingenious traps (ie. the artwork can never be revealed).
But it was found under the construction site of say a hospital. There are only two solutions: abandon the hospital and leave the work of art secure but never seen, or destroy it safely.
Perhaps art for art's sake (even if no one can ever see it) is worthwhile, but scale this up and that's the example of not inhabiting a planet.
@executor:
We just have to hope that they invent some kind of rejuvenation in our lifetime, and then work on space travel
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John says to live above hell.
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TheDeath
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posted November 21, 2007 03:45 PM |
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Yes, that's why we need to destroy viruses too!
You know how they say, this is 'specism' since the better 'virus' (i mean, us humans) feels like they should destroy the lesser 'virus' (if it is, in fact, lesser).
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But seriously, there would be cleaner energy and the previous knowledge of our first attempt at habitation to help us. Don't you believe in second chances
I am quite doubting second chances because optimism is, in my opinion, blind. There's a saying: "Pesimists are optimists who see reality"
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Eventually Sol will go out in a bang and we'll need another place to live (of course it is far more likely that we will go extinct of our own doing before then)
And what's wrong with the human race spreading throughout the galaxy? Suppose we do destroy some desolate uninhabited world (inevitably as a result of colonization), would it be better if it were never ever found and left alone? Whilst a very romantic point of view it just isn't practical. And if it is inhabited, or we do meet another sentient life form (however unlikely that may be), then hopefully we will keep our good manners and not destroy them... but either way, ignoring them isn't a more preferable option.
Practical from what point of view? Ours? Maybe there are some 'aliens' or (anything else really) that considered that planet as some kind of different thing (i.e not desolated). Or perhaps maybe we were too blind to see the 'importance' of that particular planet; in turn we distrubed it (I know how it sounds), but you never know. Thinking too "big" can lead to these problems.
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As for inhabiting the worlds... It's kind of like if some archaeologists discovered an underground ancient sealed box containing a long lost statue created by a long-dead famous artist. The box is trapped in several ways: opening it would set off a bomb; it contained a gas, which if exposed to oxygen, would explode, and other ingenious traps (ie. the artwork can never be revealed).
Why would you reveal it if it wasn't supposed to? This is the problem with us, we just don't care, we just "break" things.
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But it was found under the construction site of say a hospital. There are only two solutions: abandon the hospital and leave the work of art secure but never seen, or destroy it safely.
I doubt that if you were the artist you would agree with the hospital choice.
really thinking like that you end up with something like: because I just WANT to build a hospital into a bear's cave, then we'll have to kill the poor bear (invade his home) and destroy the cave, and build the hospital. Not only that we can be stubborn and, it's like everything we WANT should happen (obviously greedy things), but who are we to decide the hospital is more important than the bear (from the bear's point of view, I highly doubt it's us who decide).
A more down-to-earth example: suppose you were the 'bear' and had a home somewhere. Then the government comes and takes away all your freedom and home (not killing you, but slaving you for example), and build there a military base. How'd you feel about that?
I understand we cannot "resist" the awesome tentations of colonization (and frankly, that's the problem of the organism called virus, but add greed and curiosity and find the solution ), but really we have to be more responsible not only for us, but for our environment and, well, world. Good isn't applied only to us either. Just because something isn't good for us doesn't mean it isn't good on the objective-large-scale. Or just because something is GOOD for us, doesn't mean it's good for everything else. That's why we have to be more responsible and less "disturbing" 
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted November 22, 2007 08:01 AM |
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You know how they say, this is 'specism' since the better 'virus' (i mean, us humans) feels like they should destroy the lesser 'virus' (if it is, in fact, lesser).
It was a joke.
<offtopic>On a completely irrelevant note, this is actually the opposite. We wouldn't care about viruses (wouldn't even know the existed probably) if they didn't kill/harm humans, and we don't go out of our way to kill viruses everywhere, we just try to stop them from killing/harming us... so... (not that this has anything to do with the discussion)</offtopic>
And I was talking about uninhabited planets in my example so the bear thing doesn't make sense...
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Practical from what point of view? Ours? Maybe there are some 'aliens' or (anything else really) that considered that planet as some kind of different thing (i.e not desolated). Or perhaps maybe we were too blind to see the 'importance' of that particular planet; in turn we distrubed it (I know how it sounds), but you never know. Thinking too "big" can lead to these problems.
That is the most far-fetched point... too much Star Trek.
Besides what do you propose we do. Stay on our doomed planet at the sacrifice of the human race (surely not every human who will ever live is so deserving of this fate) in order to prevent the annoyance of a theoretical alien race who possibly may find an uninhabited planet special to them.
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John says to live above hell.
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Mytical
Responsible
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Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 22, 2007 08:26 AM |
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What if there is intelligent life that we don't first recognize as so? It'd be a little to late to say "Oops, we distroyed a entire civilazation." after they were all dead. Could be anything from intelligent rocks, to who knows what. They might not even be able to communicate with us they were 'alive' at first.
Terraforming is possible, just very very hard and expensive. Maybe the technology will get cheap enough someday to make it viable. As is you would have to first send people to a place (lets say the moon). They would have to build a dome. Then ship in a lot of acres of top soil, and use artificial lights (ect). Also, bottled atmosphere would have to be used for some time. Once they managed to grow enough plants, then they would have to start construction on a second bigger dome. This one for people to live in. Connect the two, so that the plants would supply the air for the people in the second dome. Also, no pollution creating things could be used. Factories, cars, ect would have to have a 0 pollution factor. Filters would also have to be in place.
Now water would be the big issue. However, huge desalinization plants (in a separate smaller bubble due to pollution), could easily transform earth's ocean water into drinkable water (and also for plants). Transporting all this is the big cost. Once set up, and running, it could be self sufficiant. Especially if there is natural resources which they could use (ore, ect) and or trade with.
As it is, it would take close to a centrury for any terraforming to 'pay' for itself. It is possible however.
I am all for terraforming the moon, mars, and other planets. I would be one of the first to volunteer to be a 'pilgram' and work to get everything set up.
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Message received.
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