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| Thread: Goblins need boosting |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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SirJohn
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 11, 2007 10:15 PM |
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Goblins need boosting
I know they have a good growth rate and all, but come on now. They have no ranged attack, no retaliation, and will actually change sides if they lose too many troops. Add to this that they are cannon fodder for your cyclops 1/4 damage range attack, and it is apparent they are the worst level one.
While we're on the subject, the cyclops has to be one of the weakest level sevens, mainly due to a low inititive.
I am not usually one to ask for balance tweaks, but I think this warrants some adjustment in the patch. The orcs desperately need something that makes them competitive. They are really fun to play but I hesitate to take them sometimes due to these weaknesses.
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guarder
Supreme Hero
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posted December 11, 2007 10:17 PM |
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The goblins are better than peasant, not economic way, but in battle you can restore cyclops, throw them and sacrifice them. It only take one goblin each time and do not get any cost almost due to the huge grow rate
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 11, 2007 10:18 PM |
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You know I find it hard to tell if you are serious or laughing inside right now 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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mlai
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 11, 2007 10:19 PM |
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I think you need to give orcs more time. They are weak in some places but it ain't the gobbos or the cyclops. DL some battle replays to see how the orcs are played.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 11, 2007 10:25 PM |
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You have probably not seen 12 cyclopses kill 43 archangels or what goblins can do with rage. If they are one thing it's not weak, far from it.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted December 11, 2007 10:28 PM |
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Quote:
The orcs desperately need something that makes them competitive.
Um...
Have you been introduced to what some refer to as Blood Rage? 
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted December 11, 2007 10:28 PM |
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Well,when they are in adventure map with no rage points than they suck.
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"Science is not fun without cyanide"
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 11, 2007 10:36 PM |
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You mean when they are not fighting?
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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pinkspear
Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
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posted December 11, 2007 10:38 PM |
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Quote:
I know they have a good growth rate and all, but come on now. They have no ranged attack, no retaliation, and will actually change sides if they lose too many troops. Add to this that they are cannon fodder for your cyclops 1/4 damage range attack, and it is apparent they are the worst level one.
Well, while simple goblins aren't so useful, the upgrades (especially the trappers) are very powerful creepers and damage dealers, with good HP and special ability. Upg Gobbos won't change sides.
Quote:
While we're on the subject, the cyclops has to be one of the weakest level sevens, mainly due to a low inititive.
 OMG, man you must be kidding! Cyclopes are widely considered to be the strongest lvl7s, not because their stats (which are quite impressive anyway) but with incredible amount of damage they deal, and due to the blood rage racial, they are almost unkillable, and it's easy to give them massive amounts of rage through warcries. Low(er) initiative? Come on orcs have quite nice init boosters (Haste from shamans, chieftans, order of the chief) and they are easily accessable.
Quote:
I am not usually one to ask for balance tweaks, but I think this warrants some adjustment in the patch. The orcs desperately need something that makes them competitive. They are really fun to play but I hesitate to take them sometimes due to these weaknesses.
With all due respect John, you should start playing. Also, check out the last few pages of the "Heroes 5 strategy: playing stronghold faction" topic. (especially Elvin's replays)! Here is the link.
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Adon
Known Hero
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posted December 12, 2007 02:16 AM |
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Upgraded goblins aren't a bad creature...trappers are good for creeping and witchdoctors are good (in mass numbers) against enemy heroes.
Unupgraded, yes, they kinda suck but they do come in collosal numbers and are super super cheap.
Cyclops? Weak? omg. They are crazy strong and nearly indestructable among level 7s with some bloodrage. Untamed is one of my favourite units ever, even if half the time they end up killing my own units!
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Fofa
Famous Hero
Famous? Me?!
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posted December 12, 2007 06:24 AM |
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One of the Barbarian heroes specializes in Goblins, making upgraded ones join each week and makes the Treachery work more in his favor. Yeah, and his name's Kilghan. His starting skills are nice too, going in favor for the Ultimate, but that's just me.
P.S. In his description, there was the word "Miscengenation," but I couldn't, for the life of me, find the definition, but given the context of the description, I'm assuming it would be in the sense of Orcs and Goblins breeding.
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Creator of the Guild and Prison towns for ICTC.
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vicheron
Known Hero
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posted December 12, 2007 10:38 AM |
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All Orc creatures are below average compared to their counterparts in other castles. That's why they need Blood Rage. Without Blood Rage, they would get their butts kicked, which is why neutral Orcs are like free experience points for your heroes. Orc Warriors/Maulers/Warmongers can get beaten by half of the level 2 creatures, they're about equal to Stalkers. Shamans/Sky/Earth Daughters are weak, and their speed is too low for a melee unit. Slayers/Executioners/Chieftains have the same stats and growth as a level 4 creature. Cyclopes are pretty much the only Orc creature that can stand up to other creatures of the same level without help from Blood Rage.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted December 12, 2007 11:49 AM |
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However, if they tweaked them to be better without a hero, then bloodrage would make them downright a nightmare. Not to mention...
Skeletons - Without the hero, even the archers really are not that big of threat. The non-archers are just free experience also.
Imps - The only 'scary' thing about them is their mana drain. Otherwise, they are 0 threat.
Peasants - Exactly what threat do they offer any town? At all? If they even make it to your side of the battlefield, you are either really low level or there are a whole lot of them.
Now sure some of the others can be a pain...
Shieldguards (So many blasted hp, if there are enough of them, they might just get a hit or two in).
Pixies - Unless you got undead, even then their init can enable them to get a hit or two in (and you get no retal against them to boot)
Scouts - The assassins (except against anything immune to poison) and the invisibility of the other can be a pain..but their damage is pathetic otherwise.
Anyhow, level 1's are not supposed to be too deadly. After all, they are level 1.
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Message received.
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted December 12, 2007 11:57 AM |
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Edited by Cleave at 11:59, 12 Dec 2007.
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Quote:
One of the Barbarian heroes specializes in Goblins, making upgraded ones join each week and makes the Treachery work more in his favor. Yeah, and his name's Kilghan. His starting skills are nice too, going in favor for the Ultimate, but that's just me.
P.S. In his description, there was the word "Miscengenation," but I couldn't, for the life of me, find the definition, but given the context of the description, I'm assuming it would be in the sense of Orcs and Goblins breeding.
Definition from the Merriam Webster online dictionary:
Main Entry:
mis·ce·ge·na·tion Listen to the pronunciation of miscegenation
Pronunciation:
\(ˌ mi-ˌse-jə-ˈnā-shən, ˌmi-si-jə-ˈnā-\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
irregular from Latin miscēre to mix + genus race — more at mix, kin
Date:
1863
: a mixture of races; especially : marriage, cohabitation, or sexual intercourse between a white person and a member of another race.
Back on topic, I wouldn't pick up Kilghan as my main hero, as a defense hero he is quite good because of Recruitment and the extra gobs but Treachery is not an issue since upgraded goblins don't have Treachery (they retain Cowardice).
The key with goblins is to bear in mind that they don't retaliate so you have to be careful where you place them on the battlefield, compared with peasants they do more damage and are faster. Like other Barbarian troops their stats don't reflect their actual proficiency in battle, you have to keep in mind that Blood Rage tips the scale in their favour.
Furthermore while creeping I often use stacks of 1 goblin, they can prevent fast creatures from reaching my centaur stack, they can hit a larger stack so it will lose its retaliation and allow my Warriors to hit the enemy stack without getting hit back and building blood rage.
If a stack of 1 goblin is killed you still get a boost for other Stronghold creatures. This tack is still useful later in game with Cyclops (with proper use of shouts one stack of Cyclops with the assistance of a few goblins can defeat a whole army).
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted December 12, 2007 12:47 PM |
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Quote:
However, if they tweaked them to be better without a hero, then bloodrage would make them downright a nightmare. Not to mention...
Skeletons - Without the hero, even the archers really are not that big of threat. The non-archers are just free experience also.
Imps - The only 'scary' thing about them is their mana drain. Otherwise, they are 0 threat.
Peasants - Exactly what threat do they offer any town? At all? If they even make it to your side of the battlefield, you are either really low level or there are a whole lot of them.
Now sure some of the others can be a pain...
Shieldguards (So many blasted hp, if there are enough of them, they might just get a hit or two in).
Pixies - Unless you got undead, even then their init can enable them to get a hit or two in (and you get no retal against them to boot)
Scouts - The assassins (except against anything immune to poison) and the invisibility of the other can be a pain..but their damage is pathetic otherwise.
Anyhow, level 1's are not supposed to be too deadly. After all, they are level 1.
I actually think there's too much troublesome tier 1 units Not fun at all!
Peasants, sprites, skeletons, imps, that's all ok and doable....
Pixies, Assassins, Scouts, Gremlins, Skeleton Archers = Casualties!
That's HALF of all tier 1 troops. Ok I didn't take into account expansions here, but still, that's just too much.
I welcome any tier 1 unit that adds to the easily wasted troops. You need that early on.
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mlai
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 12, 2007 02:04 PM |
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Hmm... I gotta start using 1 Goblin in the empty space uninhabited by the Wyverns!
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted December 12, 2007 02:59 PM |
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I must say, last campaign, the orc battle. I got lvl 3 blood rage with witchdoctors, hexing att. and no enemy relation. They were evil! (had around 1000 or so)
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Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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TemjinGold
Known Hero
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posted December 12, 2007 04:43 PM |
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Quote:
I actually think there's too much troublesome tier 1 units Not fun at all!
Peasants, sprites, skeletons, imps, that's all ok and doable....
Pixies, Assassins, Scouts, Gremlins, Skeleton Archers = Casualties!
That's HALF of all tier 1 troops. Ok I didn't take into account expansions here, but still, that's just too much.
I welcome any tier 1 unit that adds to the easily wasted troops. You need that early on.
Wait, sprites are doable but pixies = casualties? Can you explain that?
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guarder
Supreme Hero
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posted December 12, 2007 04:47 PM |
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Well, it could be that sprites can cast wasp swarm
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Lordi
Known Hero
I Dance on the Lava
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posted December 12, 2007 04:52 PM |
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yea its annoying to see when they run away instead of hitting back, but they make the cyclop overpowered
he can drop a goblin on arch demon from a range and get him almost dead just for 1 little goblin
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