|
| Thread: Ghost Dragons and their counterparts |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
|
infernox880
Promising
Famous Hero
|
posted January 06, 2008 06:53 PM |
|
|
Ghost Dragons and their counterparts
This thread is for discussing the balance of Ghost Dragons and their respective counterparts. While people involved in the Modding Community may be familiar with the issue, let me briefly explain.
Seraphim believes that the Undead Dragons are somewhat imbalanced, I guess is the term. His first proposed change was to give Spectral Dragon Deadly Strike and Ghost Dragons the Incorporeal ability. Which was (in my opinion) ridiculous.
The question still remains about whether this should be changed. Suggestions included changing costs, maybe tweaking stats, and adding some other weaker abilities.
Now my opinion is it's fine as it stands. With up to three Ghost Dragons a week, and the Necromancy skill, you'll never find yourself in a desperate situation with the Necromancers.
|
|
V3Z0W
Hired Hero
Griffin Eternal.
|
|
posted January 06, 2008 06:59 PM |
|
Edited by V3Z0W at 19:14, 06 Jan 2008.
|
Quote:
This thread is for discussing the balance of Ghost Dragons and their respective counterparts. While people involved in the Modding Community may be familiar with the issue, let me briefly explain.
Seraphim believes that the Undead Dragons are somewhat imbalanced, I guess is the term. His first proposed change was to give Spectral Dragon Deadly Strike and Ghost Dragons the Incorporeal ability. Which was (in my opinion) ridiculous.
The question still remains about whether this should be changed. Suggestions included changing costs, maybe tweaking stats, and adding some other weaker abilities.
Now my opinion is it's fine as it stands. With up to three Ghost Dragons a week, and the Necromancy skill, you'll never find yourself in a desperate situation with the Necromancers.
1.Well, I agree with that.
2.Another way is to increase they're cost, decrease they're growth to 2 and add some more stats and abilities but Incorporeal ability is too much.If you want to add that then no other abilities (except for Undead) should be added and the stats shouldn't be too high either if that comes along.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted January 06, 2008 07:04 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Now my opinion is it's fine as it stands. With up to three Ghost Dragons a week, and the Necromancy skill, you'll never find yourself in a desperate situation with the Necromancers.
Oh yes you will, trust me. Also nobody will even build those anytime soon when other factions can build their tier 7 in week 2. Just think about it, mercury for mage guild, ghosts, liches, wights. And then there's the ore shortage. They are not bad but their costs could definitely be shortened, 20 ore/mercury is outrageous.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
infernox880
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 06, 2008 07:13 PM |
|
|
Yes, but can you think of any other faction that can get Tier 7s before they even get the dwelling for them?
If you're smart, you'll go for a quick attack. With a few level ups, and hope for some extra Knowledge, you can easily take down nearby enemies in less than 2 weeks. Simply use some Necromancy, Raise Dead and you'll probably do fine. Then you should take their Wood and Ore mines, as well as their towns.
If its a long term map, then all the better. Raise units each week and even if you can't buy units, you'll have a nice army. With a few level ups combined with Expert Necromancy, and the easily acquired Pillar of Bones, you can raise hundreds of Skellies which can easily be upgraded in no time.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted January 06, 2008 07:17 PM |
|
|
That is not the point, we are discussion the dragons here.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
infernox880
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 06, 2008 07:23 PM |
|
|
|
Sorry, indeed I went off topic. The point I was trying to make was that you don't need Dragons if you have a lot of everything else. In addition, Necromancers are casters (high Spellpower). I suppose the only change I would supprt is not making the Castle a requirement for their dwelling, as that is too long, but there needs to be an expensive requirement to postpone their mass production early in the game (by this I mean early in the middle game).
|
|
Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
posted January 06, 2008 07:37 PM |
|
Edited by Seraphim at 19:39, 06 Jan 2008.
|
At least I can post again.
Ok you think that ghost dragons can be more in number than any othe lvl 7s but the problem is that its too hard to get them even playing as easy.It is too expensive and when you get them somebody comes with 4 blacks and kickes you off.You must rush! Well,necros gain power with time not rushing that fast.So the best idea could be to lower the cost and prices of the dragons.
And well,I don't like rushing.
Btw,the necromancy is too weak.I barely can raise 300 skeletons only by creatures.
____________
"Science is not fun without cyanide"
|
|
InfernoX880
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 06, 2008 07:47 PM |
|
|
Prices should maybe be changed, but the abilities you previously suggested are absurd. Like I said in my previous post, it's not a bad idea to make the Castle not be a prequisite, but it is a bad idea to make it have no prequisite. As for costs, Necromancers avoid that. Firstly, Ghosts shouldn't be your priority. They are weak and pathetic. It's actually better to go for Wraiths than the dragons. With their Harm Touch ability, so what if enemy has four Black Dragons? They're going to die anyway! And with Necromancers good Spellpower, they can easily raise 70 Skeletons in battle.
And the Vampires are likewise awesome. And finally, it's not impossible to get Bone Dragons with Necromancy! So if you have all these great features, why would you want to make Undead Dragons any stronger?
You yourself said that you don't like to rush. Well, expensive Tier 7s is one way to avoid it...
|
|
oscarius
Famous Hero
*sleepy*
|
|
posted January 06, 2008 07:59 PM |
|
|
Wath if u lowerd the cost to ca 15 ore 10 merc thats no soo uotrageus.
And also i think u could give ghost dragons incorperal IF u lowerd the stats a LOT (nearrly on par with skelle dragon) and raised spectral a little just 1-3 attk/def and dmg, what abaut that??
____________
Need moar avatars!
|
|
InfernoX880
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 06, 2008 09:36 PM |
|
|
|
Incorporeal ability is up for consideration but you have to consider what can happen. In some circumstances, such a thing would make Ghost Dragons really powerful. I suggest giving a a Fear-related ability (like that of the Nightmares) instead. It makes sense and it's not way too overpowered.
|
|
emilsn
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted January 06, 2008 09:54 PM |
|
|
What if you just made the Dragon building indepentant of castle, that way you can choose, where you want to put your ore ? And lower the mercury cost. make the tombstone cost less, 3000g and some other ressource then mercury.
Then you wouldn't have a problem, you get your 3 Dragons, not good, not bad, just wait a couple of weeks get more then 10. What i do get about necro is that they are about numbers and then you need time. The costs of necro town is just wicked, but again, if you dont give them high costs, wont they be overpowered? they are pretty hard later on. So maybe the cost aint that hard? (slighty off topic.)
____________
Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
|
|
InfernoX880
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 06, 2008 10:23 PM |
|
|
|
Remember though that Undead Dragons dwelling should require some resource spending before getting to it. With an army of undead units, your tier 7 production should be postponed for a little while. I am for making it independent of the Castle, but in that case against lowering any costs.
|
|
dodokilla
Hired Hero
Hunting dodos
|
|
posted January 06, 2008 10:34 PM |
|
|
I think the dragons are fine as they are, the big problem is the dwelling costs.
If the mercury and gold cost where cut to halved, maybe people would begin to buy these creatures. It would be pretty cool too with a bad but cheap tier 7 creature.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted January 06, 2008 10:41 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I think the dragons are fine as they are, the big problem is the dwelling costs.
If the mercury and gold cost where cut to halved, maybe people would begin to buy these creatures. It would be pretty cool too with a bad but cheap tier 7 creature.
Yes. This post nails it. 
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Deathy
Known Hero
Angels Galore
|
|
posted January 07, 2008 02:22 AM |
|
|
first original poster says that the Necropolis dragons are fine and then suggests that they should not be taken at all in first place. kinda flawed logic IMO 
as a unit they are somewhat fine(even tho some lvl 7 units can beat 3 spectrals/ghosts with just 2 of the respective lvl 7 against them)
but seriously, it's not excuse for the insane mercury cost that "just don't take them". they are units in the Necro line up, players should have the chance to use them and play them in their strategies. right now, the mercury cost prevents that unless you play easy difficulty. so what that overall Wraiths are better units for Necros, that doesn't mean that Necro's shouldn't be able to use their lvl 7s. and 300 skellies from Necromancy is no reason for Necro's to lose their chance to use their lvl 7s. the mercury cost of dwelling is retarded and i have no idea why it hasn't been patched yet. the amount of mercury needed for the building and it's upgrade should be lowered by atleast 10.
|
|
InfernoX880
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 07, 2008 02:37 AM |
|
|
|
20 Mercury is not all that ridiculous. With a Mercury Mine and Resource Silo you get 2 a day, for a total of ten days. And yes, don't tell me that you also need it for Wraiths and many other things. But the way I see it, if you pick up maybe 6 units of Mercury worth of loose resources, it shouldn't be too bad. Bigger problem is definetly the castle requirement.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted January 07, 2008 02:57 AM |
|
|
Please. You will always want to get castle, that is unrelated. As you will always want an upgraded mage guild and ghosts and wights. You cannot always afford a resource silo and with the above you need all the ore you can get funny as it may sound. The fact that the dragons ALSO cost mercury and the tombstone another 10 mercury is a joke.
They might as well have disabled the dwelling.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
emilsn
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted January 07, 2008 07:10 AM |
|
|
What about the ore cost of this town?! Its even worse, wraiths is about 20 ore for those 2 buildings!!
____________
Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
|
|
Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
|
posted January 07, 2008 11:53 AM |
|
|
I have changed the abilities back but what shuuld the correct prices be and can you tell me how to remove the part of castle? So it does not need to build the castle mabye fort but not the castle.
____________
"Science is not fun without cyanide"
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted January 07, 2008 12:23 PM |
|
|
Quote:
It is too expensive and when you get them somebody comes with 4 blacks and kickes you off.
Seeing that black dragons are also outrageously expensive and you can simply kill them with hero's melee attack and harm touch.. it's not a problem, you know.
Quote:
Well,necros gain power with time not rushing that fast.So the best idea could be to lower the cost and prices of the dragons.
And well,I don't like rushing.
Necros lose power with time. The longer the game is, the lower the chance of winning becomes. Your best bet is aggressive creeping, carefully planned raising, and midgame rush with high level dark/summoning. Add shackles against magic factions and you can pretty much win most of the time. If you keep waiting, you will get thrashed, unless you're greatly skilled.
|
|
|
|
