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| Thread: Are deleb and wyngaal still overpowered? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted May 13, 2008 07:50 PM |
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For once I agree with Azagal. Wyngaal is seriously broken in that he eliminates the ATB nuttiness that is both a joy and a frustration to the rest of the mere mortal heroes.
Individual examples of people losing with Wyngaal don't really reflect what he has done in the hands of skilled players in the vast majority of games. He almost guarantees Sylvan's first strike capability. You can play for hours and hours and in the end watch helplessly as 5 to 6 of his 7 stacks get a shot on you before you even have a chance to react is just...broken.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 13, 2008 07:53 PM |
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Ah the power of theorycrafting at full work 
@Lexxan
Yeah I used to think likewise but the facts are that some heroes are simply inferior. End of story. However that does not mean they have no chances to win nor that they are weaker in all circumstances. For instance Dirael won't do much in skirmishes but large maps with the chance to find good arties/summoning spells are another case.
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@Kispagat and infinitus: No you don't get the initiative bonus but imagine Jhora with Expert Destructive, Deep Freeze, Cold Death and Master of Ice (byebye Wyngaal).
Don't expect this to save you from week 4 on.
@infinitus
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From discussion i see Wyngaal have many opponents, but supporters too So it's not baned, i will use him in my games ....
Uh huh. Wow a few guys say he's alright without you knowing if they have ANY experience and you decide that it's fine. Indisputable logic.
In any case it's not so much about banning Wyngaal or not. It's whether the opponent is willing to let you play him. One reason that he's not as strong in earlygame as he is in endgame. In heritage of Deleb I won Wyngaal with Ossir but I got warmachines at lvl 2, trees gave me 2 levels in enlightenment and I had faster creeping - about 3 levels higher and an insane defense bonus. My opponent was not as experienced either 
What does that prove? Nothing. I was better and also had the luck in my side. He's not unbeatable but he has an edge in long games. And that edge can often prove a bit too much for others. Some may let you have that edge, most probably won't.
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zamrai
Adventuring Hero
Moonlight Melody
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posted May 13, 2008 08:19 PM |
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Edited by zamrai at 20:20, 13 May 2008.
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i don't think he is broken, i use him because is one of the best sylvan hero
he is - because he's broken
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If he is broken, need proofs, replays please were Wyngaal is imba
No need for any proof - to see one battle with Wyngall lvl.20 is enough to know that if all your army (with luck and high morale) moves before very first enemy's unit, there is nothing left.
I played Wyngaal once and I smashed my enemy before his second move despite he had 20% bonus to initiative from artifacts. This is not a fair game and I feel ashamed. Creeping with Wyngaal is not difficult also. With any other hero 4 stacks of archmages means serious loses - with Wyngaal lvl 10 (2nd week) you get them easly.
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted May 13, 2008 09:44 PM |
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well one thing... is your hero (but that's only one part of the whole game)
another factor is what Arties you/ (and your opponent) gets...
that can be an gamebreaker too....
(+ what spells you get, if you play an 1 town map) ++++
alot of factors can decide the outcome
I've played alot of games (even some as Deleb/Wyngaal, and some against Deleb/Wyngaal...) so far not any 100% sure win/loss outcome... (but lets say Wyngaal gets ring of speed/celerity...(and top of that staff...) one word POFFF
But when I play I like to play all random.... (but sure it's nice to agree before we start what hero we can play and not)
"happy gaming"
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 12, 2008 01:41 AM |
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I found an old replay with Wyngaal and remembered the thread. Take a look at the atb bar, see anything strange? No initiative artifacts involved for either player non did the dragons get morale.
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Nikita
Famous Hero
Meepo is underrated
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posted June 12, 2008 03:04 AM |
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do you remember how game finished?did they even hit you ones?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 12, 2008 08:48 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 08:49, 12 Jun 2008.
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Sylvan won but it was a really random match. After some point both heroes started casting divine vengeance which made things very messy. The match wasn't mine btw.
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Zenithale
Promising
Famous Hero
Zen Mind
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posted June 12, 2008 01:45 PM |
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It was my match. Here the replay.
Maybe the wyngaal's bonus is inchanged in TotE (+2% per level): 14x(1+(25x2%)) = 14x1.5 = 21 in the first turn. With a good random bonus (+0.25) the Dragons could play 2 times before Archangels with a bad bonus (+0). But yes, that's strange.
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