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| Thread: Responsible Posting in the Otherside. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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pandora
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The Chosen One
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posted January 09, 2008 07:44 PM |
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Edited by pandora at 10:37, 23 Jun 2009.
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Lately there has been a lot of Nationalistic style posting, as well as overzealous religious posts.
While I do not want to stop or slow the rate of discussion here in the Otherside, I do feel its necessary to address the types of posts we've been seeing, and strongly urge that you spend more time researching your facts before you click the "post reply" button.
One might argue that this is just a gaming message forum, and no harm can be done here - I strongly disagree. Presenting one sided opinions as facts is always a dangerous thing. people who do not take the time to find out for themselves, might be led to believe that what they see posted is true - when quite often its not.
Spreading half-truths, or pure propaganda here can lead people to discriminate against others or to judge by nationality rather than by the individual.
Reading something in your local newspaper, or seeing it on your television does not necessarily make it fact. Take caution before you post against other cultures or religions, and try to learn more about what you're speaking about before you click the post reply button.
Its never a good idea to generalize people, and its happening so often that we see here "All Muslims are... or All Christians are...". That's not fact - and continuing to post as though it is does a disservice to anyone taking the time to read your words.
This forum can be an excellent way to learn more about other people's culture and beliefs, but it should not be used as a way to spread prejudice and hatred.
Please post responsibly - it can only make this forum better.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Binabik
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posted January 10, 2008 12:11 AM |
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I think what's important for people to remember is that this is an international forum. Whenever you post, you are acting as ambassador to your country, your people, your religion, your cause, or your passion.
You are not posting in a vacuum. When you post, people from around the world are watching and reading. They are forming opinions and making judgments about you. And they are forming opinions about your people.
If you say something that is inaccurate, how is the reader supposed to know? You are the one who is a representative. Someone from the outside is normally going to assume that you know more about the subject than they do.
You have to ask yourself what is more important, getting that post up as quickly as possible to carry on the argument? Or taking the time to think it through and do the research to verify anything you are not absolutely sure about? Or better yet, research the subject to learn MORE about it.
When two people start arguing, people will think badly of you. And they will begin to doubt your credibility, which means they begin to disbelieve whatever you have said. When you do this, you are hurting your cause. If you present well thought out and accurate posts, you help your cause.
Ask yourself, what is your goal? Then ask yourself, am I heading toward my goal, or away from my goal? It's so easy to want to lash out at someone in the heat of the debate. That's when it's time to pull back and again ask yourself again, what is my goal?
I don't mean to pick on any particular thread, but just as an example look at the various threads about Serbia, Kosovo etc. Do you know what the world sees when they read those threads? They see a conflict that will NEVER END, that's what they see. They see fighting, they see war and they see death. Why? Because neither side is willing to back down, that's why. I'm telling you, you are NOT helping your cause, you are turning people against you.
I stress this is not about any particular thread. It's a debate about what should or should not be the direction we want to go in the Other Side. With every post we make, we determine that direction. With every post we make we represent ourselves as well as our cause. Just remember that the whole world is watching. And THINK about what you say before you say it.
bah, and know when to stop and make some smileys..... Hell, maybe that's the most important thing in this entire post....
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Azagal
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Smooth Snake
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posted January 10, 2008 01:09 AM |
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Edited by Azagal at 01:10, 10 Jan 2008.
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Though I agree with Pandora and Binabik I see the matter a bit diffrent. I've read many discussions here and every post or all the post together indeed says a lot about the poster. And I think we have a lot of reasonble and intellegent members mostly because they take these discussions seriously. But I tend to get surprised when I see a quite intelligent and reasonble post in one thread and 1minute later I see some stupid racist post which is entirely emotional in the next thread (doesn't happen often though). I don't want to lecture anyone but prehaps it would do many situations good if one wouldn't get emotionally involved to the point where one isn't fair anymore!!I really think that this is important because
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Presenting one sided opinions as facts is always a dangerous thing.
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And I am conviced that the majority of this forum understands this.
And about the Ambassador thing... Shouldn't one make a diffrence between the poster (individual) and his people ? Or did I missunderstand you Binabik?
That's also why I don't see how there can be a discussion going on in the "Muslims are not terrorists" thread... There is nothing to discuss, dam it!!
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Binabik
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Legendary Hero
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posted January 10, 2008 02:44 AM |
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Shouldn't one make a diffrence between the poster (individual) and his people? Or did I missunderstand you Binabik?
It seems like you asked a question without trying to find the answers yourself.
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pandora
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Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted January 10, 2008 03:14 AM |
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Edited by pandora at 03:15, 10 Jan 2008.
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Shouldn't one make a diffrence between the poster (individual) and his people
What someone should do, and what a person actually does are often not the same thing...
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That's also why I don't see how there can be a discussion going on in the "Muslims are not terrorists" thread... There is nothing to discuss, dam it!!
Even if you don't find the thread topic to your liking, if can bring about some sort of understanding for someone else - doesn't it at least have merit to that effect?
There have been a lot of threads where I personally have no desire to take part, because some of the opinions I've seen quite honestly disgust me - however if it should happen that even one person reading it gains perspective on a situation and learns something real, then I suppose I feel glad that it's there.
One thing that I have noticed, is that people who hate a thread feel the need to post that they hate it - or people who feel a thread should not exist, feel the need to express that too. Why?
If your feelings about any thread are so strong, that you've no interest in anything that will be said there - just stay away. People who jump into threads and say "you are all stupid" or whatever random thing, do more than inflame the tempers of the people who do care about what they're writing.
One thing that a lot of people seem unable to accept is that you simply can't make everyone see everything the way you do.
You can try, by explaining why you feel as you do, by providing facts that support your views - or by listening to what they say, and countering with your opinions that oppose them - but you will never succeed in making someone see things the way you do by yelling at them, belittling them, or badgering them.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted January 10, 2008 04:53 AM |
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Well the thing is that this used to be a gaming forum but not anymore really.
For Heroes & now it's really died down in the gaming sence.
Thats why Val catagorized these catagories, because there were too many debates & different topics.
Till this day I disagreed with it but thats just me.
Everyone is different.
People know more about a topic more then others.
Then that other person will know more on another topic then the other.
Half truths well I think some people actually believe thier truths sometimes.
Just make it sound real but it's not exactly a whole lot of fact in it.
Rumours as well.
You hear stories from other people but you misguide the facts when it's typed on here or they totally misunderstand it.
It happens, I did it too & even had a friend of mine turn on me in the harshes way possible LOL.
Anywho there are also no real facts which comes to our favvorite.
DEBATES.
Not that one person is wrong & one is correct, it's beliefs & there is not just one answer.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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antipaladin
Promising
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of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted January 10, 2008 09:30 AM |
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That's also why I don't see how there can be a discussion going on in the "Muslims are not terrorists" thread... There is nothing to discuss, dam it!!
Actually i did not find this topic needling,and i vote for it deletiion.
I think that thread quite alot wracks havock on the board,and turning peacefull and intersting debating into messy war of opinions.
I agree whole heartly on binabiks and pandys posts,but i think some threads should not be just locked but delited.
This community is pretty much open,i know other communitys that locks propaganda as they see it. We are aloud to discuss it here,but some people take stuff to emotionally.
MVS took senteces out of contaxt when he made the first post on that topic,qouting me and other memmbers,i think it is a very bad idea to spread such idology.
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types in obscure english
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Azagal
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Smooth Snake
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posted January 10, 2008 11:54 AM |
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Edited by Azagal at 11:56, 10 Jan 2008.
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Quote:
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Shouldn't one make a diffrence between the poster (individual) and his people? Or did I missunderstand you Binabik?
It seems like you asked a question without trying to find the answers yourself.
I'm sorry? I do make a diffrence between the poster and his origins...and I've done so ever since I've been here...
That's why it says "shouldn't". I'm sure I don't have to explain to you what that means. I was surprised because your statement about representing ones origins obviously doesn't imply what I asked one should do does it?I even asked whether I missunderstod you because I thought you would do that (as it is the right thing to do).
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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angelito
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proud father of a princess
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posted January 10, 2008 12:44 PM |
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Quote:
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That's also why I don't see how there can be a discussion going on in the "Muslims are not terrorists" thread... There is nothing to discuss, dam it!!
Actually i did not find this topic needling,and i vote for it deletiion.
This is exactly the problem!
If people would accept one day, other people have different opinions. If you do not like a topic, so just stay out of it!
Nobody is forced to give his 2 cents to every thread here on board. Maybe there are members who want to discuss the muslim/terrorist issue. They may come up with wrong accusations, wrong facts..whatever. But this is an open forum, and as long as nobody posts against the CoC, everything is fine. If u like it or not....if u are a muslim, a jew or catholic....just accept this.
I have to accept the presence of the Volcanic Wastelands myself, which is a completely waste of space here on board in my opinion. This is where kiddies meet ("apple or ananas?"..."blue or green?"...."Is_____really needed?"...."k"...and so on, and so on.) This is what kiddies do when Sesamstreet is over and tv is turned off...in MY HUMBLE opinion.
But it is part of HC, so I accept and just leave out. Period.
Why can't you guys do it the same way with topic/threads you dislike?
We won't delete a thread just someone dislikes the topic, that's for sure.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Azagal
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Smooth Snake
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posted January 10, 2008 12:58 PM |
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I didn't ask for the deletion on the topic.
All I wanted to say is that I personally find it imposible to "discuss" such an issue. This thread is about "Responsible posting in the Otherside" for me responsible posting is to not offend people. And by claiming the oposit of "Muslims are not terrorist" you are being offensive and not responsible at all. This is why I mentioned it.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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angelito
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proud father of a princess
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posted January 10, 2008 02:05 PM |
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I didn't ask for the deletion on the topic.
antipaladin did, that's why I quoted him too.
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All I wanted to say is that I personally find it imposible to "discuss" such an issue.
That's fair enough. Others may be able to though...
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This thread is about "Responsible posting in the Otherside" for me responsible posting is to not offend people...
. Very true, and the most difficult part in every discussion in my eyes. Especially because of so called "indirect insults", which are not ment to be insults at all.
For example: I say "Huckabee is an idiot". I'm pretty sure many people who will vote for him will feel insulted/offended, because if they vote for an idiot, they are probably idiots themselves.
But it was never my intention to insult them, but give my opinion about Huckabee.
So if I say "Most of the terrorist the last 10 years have been muslims", it may offend all peacefull muslims, but still it is a fact and not ment to be an insult towards all muslims.
I agree with you, the title of a thread sometimes may sound harsh, but this is how it works in all kind of media nowadays. Tough headliners, to force people to read/watch/listen to the rest. And OSM is real life talk.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Azagal
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Smooth Snake
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posted January 10, 2008 02:16 PM |
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All I wanted to say is that I personally find it imposible to "discuss" such an issue.
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That's fair enough. Others may be able to though...
Either I didn't express myself correctly or you didn't understand my point.
It seems as if you've read the topic yourself and you can't tell me you haven't seen many very iresponsible posts. You are right with your Huckabee example. This is not what I consider iresponsible. As you said this is an opinion which indeed may be a little harsh. But saying stuff like "All muslims are terrorists" can not be responsible and this is offensive no matter how you look at it. Oh yeah and it's completly wrong too which is not a matter of opinon but a fact.
Nevermind I'll stop discussing this as this should not be the place to argue wheter this thread is correct or not. Sorry for starting the discussion.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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antipaladin
Promising
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of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted January 10, 2008 04:36 PM |
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If people would accept one day, other people have different opinions. If you do not like a topic, so just stay out of it!
Nobody is forced to give his 2 cents to every thread here on board. Maybe there are members who want to discuss the muslim/terrorist issue. They may come up with wrong accusations, wrong facts..whatever. But this is an open forum, and as long as nobody posts against the CoC, everything is fine. If u like it or not....if u are a muslim, a jew or catholic....just accept this.
I have to accept the presence of the Volcanic Wastelands myself, which is a completely waste of space here on board in my opinion. This is where kiddies meet ("apple or ananas?"..."blue or green?"...."Is_____really needed?"...."k"...and so on, and so on.) This is what kiddies do when Sesamstreet is over and tv is turned off...in MY HUMBLE opinion.
But it is part of HC, so I accept and just leave out. Period.
Why can't you guys do it the same way with topic/threads you dislike?
I just thought it should be delited becouse the will be like debating
If all german people are nazi,and if all jewish are scum and if ...
i do not see a point debating over something that is that hurtfull.
I also asked for it,becouse MV clearly took senteces out of contaxt,and it makes every poster he qouted look very bad.
wastelands is a place of random oftopic. i post in x or y becouse its funny.
meny posts are funny and should go there.it wont get bigger then 2 pages anyhow,so why not..
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types in obscure english
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted January 10, 2008 06:31 PM |
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Edited by Binabik at 20:55, 10 Jan 2008.
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I'm sorry? I do make a diffrence between the poster and his origins...and I've done so ever since I've been here...
That's why it says "shouldn't". I'm sure I don't have to explain to you what that means. I was surprised because your statement about representing ones origins obviously doesn't imply what I asked one should do does it?I even asked whether I missunderstod you because I thought you would do that (as it is the right thing to do).
I'm sorry, I should have used some smileys or better wording or something. I wasn't questioning your ability to think things through, I was trying to draw you into a discussion about it. With your time zone I should have known the thread would already be under way before you even saw it. Again, I'm sorry for the misundrstanding.
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pandora
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The Chosen One
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posted January 10, 2008 07:02 PM |
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My original post was not about flared tempers, or whether or not threads should or shouldn't exist. What I am speaking about is taking measures to ensure that what you are posting is true when you state it as fact. I am asking that members be responsible enough not to pass off their opinions as universal truths.
In example, perhaps where some people are living, the Muslims they see daily may well be terrorists - but this does not mean that all Muslims are terrorists. Life is not the same in every part of the world, and I would think that people should be able to understand that. I live next to a large Muslim family, the father is a very hard working, kind man - and a patriotic Canadian. He is not a terrorist. uneducated people might look at him, and judge wrongly based on his appearance, and the reason for that is that there are many people out there that would see a statement like "all Muslims are terrorists" and believe it. It's wrong. It is always wrong to generalize.
Another example would be the posting we've seen in the Independence of Kosovo thread - statements are being made as fact which are simply untrue. they are misleading to readers who do not get their information from other sources - this is completely irresponsible and in my opinion unacceptable.
The biggest cause of hate and discrimination, in my opinion, is lack of education and understanding. If people continue to spread half-truths, outright lies, or purely slanted propaganda we will continue to live in the dark, and will never find the understanding we need to put an end to hate.
I know that my views may seem over reactive since we are posting on a gaming forum - however if discussions like these are to occur then they people need to take responsibility and NOT be a part of the problem.
In the past we'd have debates where our members would spend hours researching before posting, and likewise the members that responded to those posts would do the same. I am not asking that you all become brilliant essayists like the people I'm speaking about - but I am asking that you take some care to what you write before you write it.
If something is your opinion based on what you've seen where you are, or on information you've read/heard from other sources - represent it as such. Do not state your opinions as fact unless you are certain that they are.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted April 02, 2008 06:58 PM |
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uneducated people might look at him, and judge wrongly based on his appearance,
It is not about uneducated people looking at other nationalities and judging them based on the most common factor they all share. It is based on ignorance and the fear of the unknown.
If you live in the USA you already have a stereo type about them and that is not only natural but expected. Does is make it right? NO! However there are phrases, stereo types, etc that are there for a reason. Because somehow are another they have earned it.
Does this mean that all Mexicans are illegal? NO! However it is so evident in our country to have a string of illegall, then down the road a few that have earned their right to be here. Muslims have this 'You’re going to blow yourself up and take me with you’ cloud or the 7-11 slurpy selling cloud over them for several reasons. So do extremely loud overbearing African Americans, white corporate ***hole executive that screw their hot secretaries or lazy living off the state white ho mammas.
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted April 10, 2008 08:15 PM |
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Things in this forum are getting really ugly. It happens to me very often that I avoid from replying in many topics, just because I don't want to be attacked. There's so much tention here. So many penalties.
But I still think that things can be changed here. I want to give you three tips:
1. Lighten up. Take things more easiely. People here take things so harshly, that many things get unproportional reaction.
2. Read your post before you post it. Sometimes when you read it again, you notice it came out much more offensive than you meant, or doesn't reflect your opinion well.
3. This is the hardest one: Keep an open mind. There's no point to discuss things if everybody just tells his opinion, and dismisses what everybody else's says. You don't get anything for this kind of discussion. I'm not saying that this is exactly what is happening in all the discussions, but it's not far from there neither.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted April 10, 2008 10:05 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 22:12, 10 Apr 2008.
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Quote:
Things in this forum are getting really ugly. It happens to me very often that I avoid from replying in many topics, just because I don't want to be attacked. There's so much tention here. So many penalties.
But I still think that things can be changed here. I want to give you three tips:
1. Lighten up. Take things more easiely. People here take things so harshly, that many things get unproportional reaction.
2. Read your post before you post it. Sometimes when you read it again, you notice it came out much more offensive than you meant, or doesn't reflect your opinion well.
3. This is the hardest one: Keep an open mind. There's no point to discuss things if everybody just tells his opinion, and dismisses what everybody else's says. You don't get anything for this kind of discussion. I'm not saying that this is exactly what is happening in all the discussions, but it's not far from there neither.
I agree here.(eventhough I can not be here the right person to talk because of being really harsh in political threads.I answered half truth threads which were worse than listening to propaganda)
One must think to find the reason for the flammings in such threads.
One nationalistic or whatever ppl starts that the things what he thinks is a fact and states that: For example;Europe is a bunch of bad states and Russia will overcome USA and so long.After the first statemen,he than concludes something against a state(the intetion of the post).Half-truths serve to matter as facts for some threads to represent the reality.
I would ratherlock threads whic contain flammings there because of inablility to discuss.Otherwise,the seed for the flammings is the disjoint in belief of point of view politics of the poster.
Edit:GL you are right,but you must know that not everyone is able to understand this.Not everyone is able to be "Smart".Too bad that your idea would work good if ppl could do right that,but are not.
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"Science is not fun without cyanide"
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted April 10, 2008 10:32 PM |
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Understand that one persons idea of being aggresive is different then yours. We all respond different thus making us different people which is what makes these threads more interesting. If you want a script for people to follow write one that has a fill in the blank and we can have Madlib fun for God sake.
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted April 10, 2008 11:10 PM |
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Quote:
Edit:GL you are right,but you must know that not everyone is able to understand this.Not everyone is able to be "Smart".Too bad that your idea would work good if ppl could do right that,but are not.
I agree with you, but I see it a bit differently.
I don't think people are unable to understand this and to act differently. I think they just don't keep an open mind, and can't see that what they have been doing is too much. Changing the attitude requires an open mind, but there's nobody who is unable to do that.
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Understand that one persons idea of being aggresive is different then yours. We all respond different thus making us different people which is what makes these threads more interesting. If you want a script for people to follow write one that has a fill in the blank and we can have Madlib fun for God sake.
Okay, I agree. Be initiator and write such of a script. 
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