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| Thread: Are we making progress ? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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sphere
Supreme Hero
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posted January 22, 2008 11:46 PM |
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Quote:
Red stars are just small gif files.
- And we're not looking for Global concensus...or are we ?
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Who is this General Failure, and why is he looking at my disk ?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 22, 2008 11:55 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 23:57, 22 Jan 2008.
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@Vlaad
Somehow I expected a more lengthy reply 
I guess it depends on the value people give them but as Genielord I remember that when I joined they felt like a distinction. Later one I came to view them as recognition for my work or even as a challenge to reach a specific member. Of course that was up to some point, later they were of a lesser importance because I felt established in the community.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted January 23, 2008 01:07 AM |
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Ive decided im going to try and get 4000 posts without getting a QP or -QP
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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Wulfstan8182
Famous Hero
, eh?
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posted January 23, 2008 01:47 AM |
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Quote:
P.S. The application of qps as you have described Wulfstan is an interesting perception. However, while I agree that modders workshop is overlooked and most of the guys' work is left unnoticed, it might not be a good idea to start abusing them for quality points. I mean that a good many of the posters would receive quality points for their work but that would not really invoke interesting discussions or more attention, rather even more mods and more stuff. As for winning competitions and contests, every contest requires input. Say, HC's got talent. Or Homm board game competition. When an entry is good and the idea is overall genuine OR simply outstanding, it should be awarded.
I do say that QPs should be awarded for winning stuff. i also agree that not all of the mods should receive QPs. But some, like ToK, should. it is just a really big mod and Kronos should receive at least one QP, if not more.
P.S. Quote:
Ive decided im going to try and get 4000 posts without getting a QP or -QP
I will laugh so hard that i will pee myself if you suceed. go for it!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 23, 2008 01:52 AM |
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I have taken a look at that one, definitely a worthy effort. It is understandable that you just can't give a bonus to each mod but there are some out there that show great dedication and quality.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted January 23, 2008 01:53 AM |
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Just because it is a big mod doesn't necessarily mean it is a good mod. I am not saying that it isn't good, but QP's are not given because something might be "big". It is the quality that counts, hence the name Quality Points.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted January 23, 2008 02:10 AM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 02:32, 23 Jan 2008.
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Quote:
@Vlaad
Somehow I expected a more lengthy reply
Been there, done that... But I'll indulge you. (But you should know better - go test my map already LOL)
Truth be told, I skimmed the initial post and thought: Oh, it's just good old TDL talking about his favorite subject. Frankly, I had to reread it several times to figure out what he was trying to say (The_Hydra would be proud LOL). As the quality points had been there long before the 'middle' times came, the most truthful 'indicator' of timeline changes and the most effective way of reasoning the varying forum popularity, based on the amounts of good posts in them. See...? This sentence doesn't even have a verb!
Just kidding!
He did make a few mistakes in his chart - on purpose, I think.  There are a few members with more than one username (such as Milena, regnus_khan and the person behind the Ultimate Male) who have their quality points distributed between their multiple accounts. This fact doesn't change the big picture though. But I'll get back on that topic later.
As for the QP discussion, every HC generation got a thread like this one:
On quality points from a mods perspective
More on getting QPs (scroll down a bit)
QPs - a taste of heaven or the root of all evil?
Should QPs go?
Boring threads vs interesting threads (scroll down)
What is spam?
Should QPs be easier to gain?
Like I said elsewhere - I won't go there. Further discussion would be like opening Pandora's Box (pun intended  ). In brief, I agree with what Terje once wrote:Quote:
At Heroes Community, quality is whatever the Mods tell it to be.
The sad thing is this kind of discussion seems to start when the natural life cycle of a game ends. In other words, once posters have discussed most there is to discuss about the latest sequel of Heroes, they begin discussing the community itself.
I hope I'm wrong though.
Two years ago I replied to lord_crusader, who was sad to see little discussion on upcoming H5:Quote:
Let's be honest - Heroes Community has always been more about community than about Heroes.
True, Xarfax posted some of the best stuff available on the net, and so did Frank, Wub, angelito, tigris and other veterans I don't even remember now. In addition, two sections of HC are actually forums of Tournament of Honor and MapHaven. Nevertheless, most people come here to chat, meet other people, share their thoughts and feelings or simply have fun.
Some of the most "honorable legendary heroes" of HC don't know much about the game in the first place.
But you know what...?
It's OK.
It's nice to know that there is this secret place where you can talk to a bunch of special people.
I believe this is where HC is heading again, after Tribes of the East (yes, Modders Workshop is active, but so was the WoG forum for years after H3).
As you can see from the quote above, I didn't think that was a bad thing. However, I didn't realize something then. There are special people all around us in the real world too, but what makes us special is our love for this game. We're all accomplices, we're all partners in crime here. Once members stop playing the game, for one reason or the other, they break the spell... they are not really part of HC anymore. I'm not judging anyone, mind you, and I will not deal with some people's motives for staying here years after they'd finished their last Heroes game. But I do believe such members slowly become outsiders, then lurkers... and eventually leave HC for good (or apply for mods ).
When the hype surrounding the expansion pack is over, we'll get to see who stays. THEN we'll know what kind of community really exists. It's natural the number of QPs rises when a new game comes out, but what will happen when most of the tutorials have been written and Doomforge logs off...?
Which brings us back on topic...
Alci is right about the HC membership being a revolving door, as Binabik put it once. I've been here for five years  and each generation of HC has been good so far. True, there were generation gaps (e.g. read these great posts, or this thread... or this page). See? Geny didn't invent spam. Seriously though, if you read all that stuff, you'll see the point: each generation has been good, but each has been DIFFERENT too. So, to answer the question in the title, it is impossible to say whether HC is making progress - it is constantly changing instead. Some members miss things like online striptease, others long for the closed Tossers Tavern... some would like to bring back the glory days of the Other Side or the Glade, others miss the fun they had with their new friends.
In other words, there can be no comparison - the total number of red stars or the rate at which they're being given is deceiving.
But it all doesn't matter, Elvin. That's why I wrote such a short post at first. In hindsight, this entire hoopla adds up to nothing... It all boils down to the people you get to meet and know here.
So, TDL, allow this old fart to give you a piece of advice: don't let your life or thoughts revolve around small red gif files on an Internet forum... They will give you the same kind of satisfaction and the sense of accomplishment as gaining levels in Heroes - eventually, you'll HAVE TO turn off your computer.
Have fun, and - for Namus's sake - forget about the good old days.
But... remember one thing:
"ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS EXCEPT EUROPA ADULT FORUM. ATTEMPT NO LANDINGS THERE."
@ Wulfstan8182Quote:
PS: and DON'T give me a QP because i made this long post!
Sure it was a long post... for a dwarf.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted January 23, 2008 03:35 AM |
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In the old days many QP's went to some major puckering.
Yes i am talking about those butt kissers who love brown nosing
Back when tosser was a word on here, spammers got the most QP's just by butt kissing the mods butt & QP hunting while they were at it.
Not enough charming a mod but when you QP hunt like TNT did, you can expect many easy QP's
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Wulfstan8182
Famous Hero
, eh?
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posted January 23, 2008 03:39 AM |
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Quote:
@ Wulfstan8182Quote:
PS: and DON'T give me a QP because i made this long post!
Sure it was a long post... for a dwarf.
LOL nice one! laughed my *beep* off! and thanks for the links, learned a couple of good things from them.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 23, 2008 09:42 AM |
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Quote:
i also agree that not all of the mods should receive QPs. But some, like ToK, should. it is just a really big mod and Kronos should receive at least one QP, if not more.
To read my oppinion on that subject, see 6th post from top here.
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What will happen now?
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted January 23, 2008 09:44 AM |
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Your my hero Trapper!
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 23, 2008 10:51 AM |
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I had a hunch Vlaad, you are not exactly the shallow type to spam and go What I did not know is that this type of thread is recurring and even appears with a certain timing. Makes sense I guess and while there are many people around not many of them choose to remain.
I remember Lord_Crusader's post I won't hide that some time ago I was considering to leave after my interest in H5 was over and initially I joined for exactly that. Now I am here mostly for the people. Discussions about heroes I could have with the tohers on msn and there is little more to discuss but that's the least I would care about anymore. And if I left I would indeed become an outsider occasionally checking back but not really into it as before.
As you said this is a good time to see who will remain, until an upcoming heroes title is announced.
Thanks for the links, this should be an interesting read.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted January 23, 2008 06:45 PM |
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somehow after reading your post i felt like replying to it
Quote:
Truth be told, I skimmed the initial post and thought: Oh, it's just good old TDL talking about his favorite subject. Frankly, I had to reread it several times to figure out what he was trying to say (The_Hydra would be proud LOL). As the quality points had been there long before the 'middle' times came, the most truthful 'indicator' of timeline changes and the most effective way of reasoning the varying forum popularity, based on the amounts of good posts in them. See...? This sentence doesn't even have a verb!
Starting in the same manner: truth to be told, I expected people to skim this post in general. Still, I expected a reply from you.
However, I must admit I did not double check the post for mistakes (the sentence in italics lacked 'it is').
Quote:
He did make a few mistakes in his chart - on purpose, I think.
There are a few members with more than one username (such as Milena, regnus_khan and the person behind the Ultimate Male) who have their quality points distributed between their multiple accounts. This fact doesn't change the big picture though. But I'll get back on that topic later.
Actually I did not realize this. I thought I strictly re-calculated what was listed in the analysis. The multi-username idea never came to my mind while thinking about it. Yet, it should have been taken into account.
Quote:
As for the QP discussion, every HC generation got a thread like this one:
On quality points from a mods perspective
More on getting QPs (scroll down a bit)
QPs - a taste of heaven or the root of all evil?
Should QPs go?
Boring threads vs interesting threads (scroll down)
What is spam?
Should QPs be easier to gain?
*le sigh* At first I did not really picture this thread and this discussion as yet another qp discussion and by no means I did not want it to become one of those monotonous threads.
Quote:
So, TDL, allow this old fart to give you a piece of advice: don't let your life or thoughts revolve around small red gif files on an Internet forum... They will give you the same kind of satisfaction and the sense of accomplishment as gaining levels in Heroes - eventually, you'll HAVE TO turn off your computer.
Have fun, and - for Namus's sake - forget about the good old days.
This is where our points of view begin to differ. I do not regard quality points as simple red gif files or something. I regard quality points, their rate of application as a social factor. By studying this subject, you can not only begin to understand how people think (despite the fact that the forum is just a place on the net for people to hang out), how they interact, but also what their wishes are, what are the ways to realize them, etc. It is kind of difficult for me to explain everything in full detail (mainly because I am an awful writer of articles), but what I have written so far in this thread should be regarded as a way to express my opinion and to show how I amcurious and keen on analyzing these social factors.
Just my two cents.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted January 24, 2008 10:30 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 22:35, 24 Jan 2008.
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Somehow after reading this topic I felt like responding to it.
 I believe the first 3 qp's should be easier to get than the latter. I see a lot of quality posters with 4 or 5 yellow stars and not but 2 red's. That takes a lot of my respect of the red stars, and throws it out the window. I like my 4, sure, but I dont respect them as much as I would if I didnt see members with 2000 posts and no red stars, or only 1 or 2 qp's.....
Are you saying that .01% of what they say is quality? This is an outrage, though the rage is not calling for anarchy, it is calling for a serious look at they way QP's are administered.
Like I said, and its just a suggestion, I believe the first 3 qp's should be easier to get than the latter. And secondly I believe members with several posts and no qp's should be reviewed.
It's a hard job for a mod to read everything, believe me I know I dont read everything lol. Would it help if we started a thread called QP Recomendations? Where members would give a URL and everything to posts they feel should be reviewed.
Anyways, I have said atleast 50% of my view for now.
Edit: Is this thread stretched or is it just my libraries computer? I tried to fix my post and now its all screwy
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SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 24, 2008 11:49 PM |
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Quote:
Red stars are just small gif files.
I agree perfectly. Red stars are just simple representations of a theoretical quality. A red star or the absence of one does not make a post less or more worthy.
I do not believe that growth or decline in the count of red stars really projects the quality or the so called "progress" of HC. The quality of a post is not necessarily demonstrated by a red star. And they most certainly do not demonstrate the progress of the community as a whole, in my opinion that is. It just demonstrates that someone, thought that the certain post or idea deserved some special merit. That's all good. The ideas, posts ect. that are good deserve recognition.
Still their numbers, growth or decline for me do not show some progress or regress.
What I see as changes in HC is the overall atmosphere here. How things flow around here, what changes, mainly what is my whole feeling of this place. HC is a dynamic place and has gone through many "stages", but lately I feel that this place has made some progress, or better said changes. Things that are not demonstrated by quality post. For me it is how often I come here and see if there are people to talk with, things to discuss and so on.
Red stars are nice shiny things, but they do not necessarily demonstrate the real value of this place.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 25, 2008 12:56 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 00:58, 25 Jan 2008.
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I have seen mods ask members to help in pointing out quality posts at least a few times Celfious. Some members as anti have made a thread specifically for this reason and if they are deemed to be of quality they will be rewarded - feel free to do the same, you or anyone that will come across such posts. Yes the first should be easier to gain with the difficulty escalating - which was the case for me - but they still should require some effort, they won't come on their own.
@SirDunco
Glad you see things this way. Eventually what matters is the environment being friendly and positive for discussing new things.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted January 25, 2008 02:08 AM |
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I thought that that was what the specific forum feedback threads were for? I have seen numerous times where a member posts a link to a post that they deem worthy for a QP and most of the time it has been in the feedback thread for that forum.
Anti had to make his own thread since the WoG forum didn't have it's own feedback thread.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Wulfstan8182
Famous Hero
, eh?
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posted February 01, 2008 05:53 PM |
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the thing with Qps, is that someone does somthin funny, or just something interesting, and they get a QP. only Val knows the secrets of true QP...
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted February 05, 2008 07:33 PM |
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Maybe QPs should be easier all around, but it takes more of them to get redstars...
If I was a Mod I would give baklava a QP for his shotgun wielding pie, but thats me, and maybe thats to easy, but it was darned funny to see lol
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What are you up to
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted February 05, 2008 07:43 PM |
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Edited by TDL at 19:44, 05 Feb 2008.
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Primarily, I would not really be happy if the system was modified to apply even more quality points. The rate is already augmenting, as I have stated earlier, but I begin to find that this is mainly that we ARE really making progress: more and more deeper thought-out posts, witty and interesting contest entries and more valuable discussions.
The system as it is carried over from the times long forgotten It was here from the start and only a few things (such as bonuses for achieving red stars) were added.
But in baklava's case, the picture was surely funny, but if this is to be addressed, it might be better if you adressed the matter in the feedback threads, rather than reopening a discussion slightly incoherent to this thread.
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