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| Thread: Gameplay For The Hero |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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acidickitty
Hired Hero
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posted February 13, 2008 08:32 AM |
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Poll Question:
Gameplay For The Hero
How do you want to see the heroes involve themselves in combat in Heroes 6?
Do you want it oldschool, where they can't do anything but cast spells (at any time). H1-H3
Do you want them to be like a unit, whose stregnth depends on their level? H4
Do you want them to have a turn and be able to attack without spells, but cannot move or be the last unit standing. H5
Or do you want something new? (specify please)
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted February 13, 2008 09:26 AM |
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HoMM4 style, though it was a close-run thing with HoMM3. This isn't to say, however, that I totally support the HoMM4 system of heroes in combat, just that I prefer heroes to actually be in combat.
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted February 13, 2008 04:00 PM |
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I'm not a fan of heroes as units. So I go for H5-style.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted February 13, 2008 04:17 PM |
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I liked the H4 way, but it had a huge flaw: the hero "stack's" powergrowth grew non-linearly while normal stacks grew linearly in power. And that's very hard to fix.
Typically, I really like the H4 way, but it just won't work.
Currently I think the H5 way is the lesser evil, so I'm going with that.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 13, 2008 06:51 PM |
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I agree with Moonlith that the powerbalance between Heroes and units was an issue - without Combat skill, Hero was underpowered, with Combat skill, he often turned overpowered. In the end, most of the time I ended up relying on potions of Immortality to stay alive.
I think the Hero attack on Units is a good way to balance Might vs. Magic heroes - in this way, your low-mana (or no-mana) Hero is not completely useless. I would probably change the mechanism a bit, to make it more linear and not ONLY determined by hero level (stats and skills might play in also).
Another thing I thought about would be to allow Heroes - and only Heroes - to attack other Heroes. I think the thought is interesting, but in the end, I'm not sure much good comes of it.
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What will happen now?
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imp
Hired Hero
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posted February 14, 2008 12:43 AM |
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Edited by imp at 00:53, 14 Feb 2008.
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i think that you should have two options. one the hero can cast spells like in heroes 3. or you can have the option to enter combat. if you enter combat then you have to stay in for the remainder of the battle. you can cast spells, do melee or ranged attack but you would also take damage and could possibly die.
also it would be cool if you could have more than one heroe in battle.
then you could distribute the experience however you wanted after the battle.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted February 14, 2008 12:58 AM |
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Edited by yasmiel at 00:58, 14 Feb 2008.
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H5 (and h3 since its quite similar) gets my vote.
H4 was ridiculous hero build game which would suit RPG game, but not this type of TBS.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted February 14, 2008 02:40 AM |
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Quote:
H4 was ridiculous hero build game which would suit RPG game, but not this type of TBS.
Never actually played it, but from the looks of the skill setup (Tactics working only on troops, Combat only on hero) I'm inclined to agree with you. Perhaps if the heroes got the same bonuses as the creatures things might be better, although they'd also have to have a base defence and attack, or these respective stats would be below even their lowest creatures (something like the commander from HoMM3 WoG, but using the same upgrades as everyone else.
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Tobius
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 14, 2008 02:20 PM |
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On any account Heroes IV heroes. Think, the games' name is Hereos, why shouldn't they be the centre. The only problem was the potions which destroyed the balance. A Level 40 Heroes III hero was a uber-hero as well. May be the number of heroes per army should be restricted, but that's all.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted February 14, 2008 05:13 PM |
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Here's a new thought: What of, taking the H5 way as a background, being capable of attacking the enemy hero once all enemy creatures are dead? And that the battle aint over untill the enemy hero is dead? Heroes can also attack enemy heroes then, as long as the enemy has no more creatures. How would that work out ?
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Andrelvis
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 14, 2008 06:10 PM |
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I find it kind of strange that heroes don't participate directly in combat, walking and taking damage. It just feels... unnatural, specially when there are only a few weak enemy creatures left and none of your own, and your hero is simply defeated ¬¬
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 14, 2008 06:14 PM |
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That depends on how you view the heroes. I have always thought them to be commanders who standin the rear and issue orders. That's why I dislike the idea of heroes in battle.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted February 14, 2008 07:21 PM |
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I think that's the exact issue, how you wish to portray the heroes. In H1, 2, 3, and 5, they are more like generals. In H4, they are heroes.
I guess it depends on your definition of hero. In my personal definition, in fantast context, a hero is someone who survives a snowload of dangerous situations (either luck or skill), and has something to serve, like a Kingdom.
In that light I obviously favour the H4 way, but it's still meh.
Heroes 3
Pros:
- Possibility of casting spells anywhere through combat, once per round.
Cons:
- Without spells, a hero can't do anything but stand there.
Heroes 4
Pros:
- Far more realistic portrayment.
Cons:
- Severe balance issues due to unlinear power growth of the "hero stack"
- Severe balance issues due to Combat skill.
Heroes 5
Pros:
- Heroes without spells are no longer useless.
Cons:
- Not as realistic as the H4 variant.
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted February 14, 2008 07:48 PM |
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In heroes 4 heroes were far too unbalanced but what you suggested earlier sounds a bit YU-gi-oh ish
its a nice suggestion but it would mean that heroes essentially are back into combat.
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted February 14, 2008 09:38 PM |
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Well it might be a bit yu-gi-ohish now that you mention it, but is that bad?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 14, 2008 10:26 PM |
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I give only so much for the Heroes 4 realism of the Heroes. The concept of a single man taking on 10 Black Dragons singlehanded - and winning - just seems plain stupid.
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What will happen now?
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted February 14, 2008 10:39 PM |
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Quote:
Well it might be a bit yu-gi-ohish now that you mention it, but is that bad?
yeah but that essentially is the heroes 4 system except all creatures must be defeated
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Andrelvis
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 14, 2008 10:45 PM |
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I haven't played HoMM IV yet, but it seems from the comments I've seen that the problem of the heroes is that they were very unbalanced in it.
It would be interesting to have the heroes portrayed as units in the battlefield, however. It would first differentiate purely warrior heroes from those more leadership-inclined, and also add the interesting element of having to protect your hero from death (magic, archer and purely tactical heroes would stay in the rear, while melee warrior heroes would attack in the front.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted February 14, 2008 11:13 PM |
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They tried it. It didn't work. That is pretty much end of story for me. And i don't count "realism" as necesarily good thing. This is a game after all, and we should not ask why "knight can only move in L pattern", but instead try our best under the game rules provided.
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acidickitty
Hired Hero
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posted February 20, 2008 07:16 AM |
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Quote:
I give only so much for the Heroes 4 realism of the Heroes. The concept of a single man taking on 10 Black Dragons singlehanded - and winning - just seems plain stupid.
I agree with you in the sense that its not realistic at all. But who is looking for realism in a game with dragons and pixies? When people used to tell me stories about heroes they would always defeat the enemy against great odds, so I think that is part of the charm of a hero being able to defeat 10 black dragons. I think that maybe if your hero is like a really high level then they should be able to defeat 10 black dragons.
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